Hr. Ms. O 19 by Piet - 1939 - 1945, scale 1:50, submarine Royal Navy Netherlands - Finished

[amateur]

Knowing your attantion to detail, I suspect life scale lobsters

 

Jan

Edited January 25, 2015 by amateur

[Piet]

Thanks for your very kind words Patrick.  

 

And Jan, what can I say, scale lobsters, and life ones to boot    Ever the optimist - - - tempting - - - hmmmm, that's now a wet bar and lobsters.  What else - - - - -   At this rate she'll never be finished but - - - --

 

Cheers,

 

[GLakie]

She's about ready for action Piet! Let's see-------Lobster on the Half-Shell and a Cocktail chaser!  Beautiful!!! 

 

Cheers 

[Piet]

Hello everyone, I'm back working on the O19.  The little lobster smack is completed so I can work on finishing the O19. 

 

There are two details left I want to incorporate but one of them is really taxing me.  That's the hinges on the mine bin door.  As the pictures below demonstrate access to the fixed hinge part under the plating portion of the ballast tanks is impossible with the door closed.  

This is necessary to be able to correctly position and cement the door part of the hinge and install the hinge pin.

 

Thoughts of removing a narrow strip of plating inboard of the hole is an option that'll be the last resort.  Even then it'll be difficult to make the door close properly.

 

What I think I'll do is to cut slots into the plating inboard the hole for the door hinge part to slide through. A fixed hinge part consisting of a 0.1 mm brass plate with two small 1 mm brass tubes soldered to it to accommodate the hinge pins.  This part will be cemented with 2 part epoxy to the underside of the ballast tank plating just inboard of the hole and between the slots.

 

Before I can cut the slots I'll have to make the door parts of the hinge and cement them to the left and right of the door reinforcing strips.  This is so I can mark where the slots are to be cut.  The sketches will make this clear.  

 

The slots will be cut with a fine jeweler's coping saw blade of 0.15 mm wide having 85 teeth per inch.  I tried it on a piece of scrap and it works on the upstroke.  I have to do this by hand, holding the blade in my right hand pulling up for the actually working stroke while holding the blade against the wood with my left whatever works for me finger, probably my thumb     I only hope that it'll cut 90 degrees to the longitudinal part of the hole opening.

 

The biggest problem will be finding where to drill the hole in the door part of the hinge because I can't see it with the door closed.  I think that when I put the hinge pins into the brass bushings of the fixed hinge part I can then mark the hull plate on top and then measure how far in from the edge of the hole.

It'll still be a lucky shot if I get the hole drilled okay enough for the hinge pin to engage properly.  It doesn't matter much if the hole is a little larger then the hinge pin diameter as long as the door closes snug and opens to clear the hole so the mines can be loaded.

 

Okay, that's the plan - - - for now.  I still want to draw up a step by step sequence of events in assembling all the parts.  This has taken quite some time agonizing over.  I really don't want to start cutting planking away but if I have to do it just to add this little detail then I may just do it.  This is even a greater challenge then the bow trim planes and anchor hole.

 

Like I have mentioned now several times before, I never intended to add any detail to the build, just make a model without all the extras.  Most all the detail work I have put into this model are afterthoughts, which makes it double difficult.  

If I could rewind the years and start anew I would certainly do things quite different to make it easier.  However, it is what it is and like with all te other challenges I have to fight and conquer this one too.

 

The next detail is the dinghy cradle.  That'll be a lot easier - - - he says with a straight face    I have already made one part but the rest is for after this "little" job is done.

 

Okay, I'll add a few pics to show what I have been talking about so yuns understand.  The first two pics are from last year, June 6, 2014.  The last two are my rough sketches I made mainly for me to put my thoughts on paper.

 

Here you can see part of the original planking .  I had to cut some wood away with a #11 blade and a chisel to make it a little thinner for the hinge to fit better.  There are bulkheads to the left and right in this picture.  The slots I mentioned will be cut towards the inboard, probably no more then 4 mm or so.  The first sketch below is seen as if you are inside the ballast tank on the left in this picture and looking up and to the bow of the boat.  Yeah, there is not much room there but I won't close the lid 

 

Here you see the door or lid just put loosely on the ballast tank plating.  

 

Okay, I tried to draw a perspective pic of how I perceive it be, if all goes according plan. To orient you, your back is towards the pressure hull, the bow is towards the right in the picture and you are looking up.   I hope you understand what I am talking about and the problem I face.

 

This is a lay-out of the parts and how they should look.  I have not yet made any measurements, that'll come as I go along when making each part.   Here the top of the picture points towards the bow and to the left is the pressure hull.  The extreme left part of te sketch is looking down from the outside, then the break-down of the individual parts.

 

Cheers,

Edited February 11, 2015 by Piet

[GLakie]

Glad to see you're back on the 019 Piet. I've got every confidence in your ability to craft a fix for this hinge. The next thing will be NASA knocking on your door to fabricate fixes for their spaceships. 

 

Cheers 

[ianmajor]

Hi Piet,

 

Rough sketches eh?!  I must see your finalized diagrams - they must be a combination of technical drawings and works of art.    

[cog]

Piet,

The way you want you hinges to work is impossible, because you would force the lower part of the lid into the deck. You could, however, mount the hinges nearly flush with the deck, slightly protruding at the top.

 

Made a little drawing to enlighten my text ...

Edited February 11, 2015 by cog

[popeye the sailor]

no fear Piet.......you'll work your  'metal magic'  on it and it'll work just fine!   glad to see your back and making progress

[SawdustDave]

Piet, you continue to completely amaze all of us by setting the detail bar of your work to unbelievable heights. I love showing your work, along with our friend EdT's amazing talents as extreme examples of the fine art we call modeling. Thank you Master Piet.

[Omega1234]

Piet! I'm telling ya...you gotta put your book out! I'll be the first to buy it because I know that there's so much to learn and admire about your O19.

 

Thanks also, for sharing the next instalments of her construction.

 

All the best

 

Patrick

[harvey1847]

Hello Piet!

 

Let me just quote some of your words...

 

 

Like I have mentioned now several times before, I never intended to add any detail to the build, just make a model without all the extras.

 

But we, the yuns around, don´t want to keep the things quiet and simple! Your Scratch skills are far beyond to make the things easier...

I doubt if I could make such a precise work even out of a comercial kit. I have never thought about modelling a sub but after looking to your log for years now, who knows...

 

Willing to see the dingy inside the hull with the door -gates closed. She looks pretty big on the deck. Like she is not going to fit... Have you tried it?

 

Best wishes Piet!

 

 

daniel.

[kees de mol]

Still amazed by this beautifull model. I hadn't look on your topic for a while but I see you're still going strong.

[Piet]

Thank you all for visiting and your kind comments, help and of course for all the likes.  It's great to be tinkering with the sub, although it's a little slow going right now.

 

Hello George, as always, thanks for your kind words - - - your seat in the shipyard has your name on it    Well, funny you mentionef NASA, I do have a fix for their foam shedding problem but that's another story.  Nah, they don't what to talk to me.

 

Hi Ian, good to see you again and thank you too.  Well, my drafting table is rather cluttered right now with some colored pencil drawing stuff.  These sketches will have to do.  I'll be adding the measurements as I get to that stage in the work.  It's a one of a kind project anyhow.

 

Hoi Carl, thank you for taking the time to scrutinize my plan and your input, I really appreciate it.  I did take a second look my plan, which drove me back into my photo archive of the original build and in-service pics of the mine bin doors.  I knew that, if I was going to make this door hinge, I wanted it to look close to the original boat., i.e. flush hinged.

I already rejected two methods because it would not be like that and in that case I'd rather not even bother.  That's why I came up with this idea, which is kinda similar to aircraft doors that also have hidden hinges.  

Right now I am in the process of making a test hinge and see how it'll work for me.  It's not quite the same as my sketches picture it but close enough for government work     Hey, I'm a stubborn Dutchman with Friezian blood too.  The van Warmerdam clan goes way back to before the mid 17th century.

 

Hi Popeye, thanks and yes, I'll give it a good try.  Carl's suggestion triggered the old engineering mind - - - again.

 

Hi Dave, you give me too much credit my friend but thanks for your kind words.  I'm certainly not in the same league as Ed and many others here on MSW.

 

Hello Patrick, thank you, but what book are you talking about?  The one our daughter wants me to write about my experiences as the guest of the Emperor of Japan?     No, I guess not - - - yeah, I still need to sort through all the photos I have of the original build and many others to put into a binder or two.  

 

Hey Daniel, there you are, welcome back.  Ah my friend, give it a try.  You'll find that scratch building is a lot easier then you think.  It just takes patience, planning and research.  With your CAD abilities you can make some very good drawings to help you.

Yup, the dinghy does fit inside the deck and the hatches do close over it.  I made two pics this afternoon to show you but for some reason they don't want to upload into this post 

 

Hoi Kees, good to see you too and hope all's well with yo.  Thank you also for your kind words.  Yes, I'm still plugging along with the O19.  It almost seems like I don't want it to end but I do have to finish her one of these days - - - soon.

 

Cheers to all,

Edited February 13, 2015 by Piet

[GLakie]

I don't believe the pictures not uploading is your fault Piet! There was trouble earlier with the Advanced uploader, but I guess the Basic one still works. They're working on a fix. See this post.

 

Cheers

[Piet]

I have pulled a few photos of the mine bin doors out of my O19 archive to you all how they look like on the original boat.  As yuns can see they have a rather peculiar type of hinge arrangement, which reminds me a lot of those I have encountered on some airplanes.

 

The reason why I went the route I did was to emulate the looks as close to the original as possible.  Also don't forget that I am battling scale here.  The original steel plating was rather thin for the ballast tanks because they are all outside the pressure hull.  

I have reduced the thickness of my ballast tank "plating" in the hinge area to 1 mm and the bin door is also 1 mm.  This would work out to 50 mm thick steel on the real boat, which is way too thick.  I cannot really reduce my thickness anymore and keep some structural integrity and have to work with it.

 

I am making a test arrangement to see how a slightly modified system works.  My thinking is that with the stationary part set back 0.5 mm and a slightly longer hinge tab on the door there'll be enough play for the door to clear the tank plating.  I may even have to elongate the hinge pin hole in the door tab so it can be pulled out and then hinged up.

Right now the door fits nice and snug in the opening and like to keep it that way.  The edge of the fixed part, the tank plating part, can also be rounded off slightly to aid the door in opening up over it.

 

I'll be playing with it in the next few days and take pics as I go along.  I have already cut the slots in the tank plating for the door tabs, which have also been made from 0.5 mm brass sheet stock.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Cheers,

Edited February 13, 2015 by Piet

[Piet]

Hey Daniel, I think I worked around the upload problem.  Here are the two pics of the dinghy inside the deck area.

 

 

I didn't want to remove the dinghy loading boom so the hatches are not all closed but I have tried it already and believe me, the hatches close up real nice and snug.

 

Cheers, 

[harvey1847]

Thank you Piet! The hatches look awesome and heavy. Were they hand operated by one or two sailors or did they use the loading boom?

 

Happy Friday!

[cog]

longer hinges so it comes off the deck!!! That's it.

 

Some lovely pictures Piet. They are large suckers those firecrackers... You just realise how big they are when you see someone standing along side it. These mines will give a nice pop exploding ...

[popeye the sailor]

looking great Piet.......the dingy is a perfect fit!

[Piet]

Thanks everyone for visiting and your comments and also to those who clicked the like button.

 

I have made the hardware and cemented the pieces to their respected positions.  That's as far as I got yesterday.  I'll continue with this project tomorrow and hope to complete it.  If not, there is always the next day    I'm pretty sure it'll work - - - keep the fingers crossed.

 

I have been thinking about this hinge arrangement and figured there is another way of doing this by using brass rod.  

 

Here we have all the hinge parts except for the hinge pins, ready to be cemented to their respective locations.  The door parts will be trimmed after the door works to my satisfaction.

 

This shows the door hinge parts being cemented in place.

 

Here the fixed hinge part with the brass tubes for the pins is being cemented to the underside of the plating.  Tomorrow will be the task of locating the pin holes in the door parts and installing the 0.5 mm hinge pins.

 

Cheers,

[cog]

Can't wait to see the result Piet. It is looking very promissing already!

[Piet]

WOW, I'm overwhelmed by all your likes, much appreciated!

 

Hi Carl, thank you for your keen interest in my feeble endeavors.  I try my best to make her look as close to the original boat as I can, otherwise my father will be mighty unhappy 

 

Well today I made a valiant effort to complete the mine bun door hinge project and we won! 

One last project to go, the dinghy cradle thingy and then the final display board and make the install the mounting brackets in my studio / office.  Her house a ka dust cover will come later as with some other details to be added in due time.

 

The first order of business was to dress the door hinge parts.  Unfortunately - - - I took a little too much of the aft bracket so the hinge pin didn't have enough meat    No prob, just being a little careless.  I made a new part and then fitting it to the boat I had a case of butterfingers and dropped the thing down into the bottom of the ballast tank.  I tried to fish for it with a bmaboo skewer with some sticky stuff on the end but no dice.  So - - - I made another new part and with all this experience it only took 1/2 hour.  Problem is that I had to wait half a hour for the 5 minute epoxy to cure.  So, in the meantime I made a part for the dinghy cradle and mixed some more 5 minute epoxy and cemented that in place.

 

After the epoxy had cured enough on the door hinge I could proceed to trim that one to size and dry fit it.  I had to do this several times, being careful this time not to to over do it.  

 

Next step was locating the holes in the door hinge brackets.  I made two hinge pins and inserted them into the fixed hinge tubes so I could see them through the slots and marked the hull plate.  Then measured down to find the approximate center of the pins.  Transferred all this to the door hinge brackets and drilled the holes.  

 

Here too I had a problem.  The correct drill bit of 0.5 mm was broken as were all the other small drill bits.  Hmmmm, what now????  Well, I used an old machinist trick and with my optivisor I filed the broken end into a semi point, as close as I could to how a drill bit shout look like.  Many, many years ago I could hand sharpen drill bits on a carborundum grinder as good as those DrillDoctor machines.

 

Well, it worked!  It will most likely not work too well on steel but wood, brass and aluminum works okay. Okay, long story but If one is caught short you have to be inventive.

 

Now it was time to install the door.  I made a 90 degree bend in the 0.5 mm brass pins to have some sort of a handle.  Installed the one and then the second - - - oops - - - dropped that one too down to the bottom of the ballast tank   domkop,  he mumbled    No prob, quickly made a new one and this time it went right in.  

 

Tried the operation and had to elongate the holes in the door brackets but after that was done the door operated just fine.  This time I didn't loose the hinge pins    Ouch - ouch, twisted my arm patting myself on the back     

 

Now it was time to touch up the paint and call it a day.

 

I think I'll try to make the hinge pin in one piece.  I can slide it in from the center one way and then back the other way.  That 1/2 mm rod is flexible enough to allow me to that, it's also much better to lock it in with some CA and besides, it also looks better.

 

Here are a few pics of this project.

 

This shows the dry-fit of the door without hinge pins.

 

This shows the door hinged in the open position.  You can see the temporary hinge pins.

 

This shows the hinged door in the closed position.  Even with your eyeballs right over it the door fits nice and snug.

 

Cheers,

Edited February 16, 2015 by Piet

[dgbot]

Piet you have the patience of a saint.  Most people would have just walked away.  Good job on a reat piece.

David B

[mtaylor]

Beautiful work, Piet.  I'm agreeing with David.  Though I think we would have just glued the door open.  

[GLakie]

The hatch cover turned out great Piet! I can barely see the seams. You said you dropped a couple parts in the boat, but I know you sub-consciously meant to do that, since every well-equipped navy always carries spare parts.  I liked your fix for sharpening that broken bit. Done it in a pinch many times myself, only on larger bits. Amazingly, it was always enough to get the job done. Nice job man! I know your Dad's proud as heck.

 

Cheers

[Remcohe]

Nice to see how you figured out how the hinges should work and they turned out great (just like I expected )

Now you should at least scribe the hinge location above all the other lids as well  

 

Remco

[cog]

A few finishing touches, 'et voila' ...

[dgbot]

I have sharpened drill before and reground them at work.  But I cannot see how you did it on those mini bits.  Nice save.

David B

[NenadM]

Just ... just ... incredible !!!!

[Piet]

Thanks everyone for your comments and likes, it's humbling and truly appreciated.

 

@ David B:  Yeah, patience I have but being a saint ?????  Just ask my wife - - - - on the other hand - hmmm - - better not 

 

@ Mark:  Or glued it shut     

 

@ George:  Thanks!  Yeah, spare parts is what we need but way down in the bulges?    When I break a drill bit and still see some side lands on them I safe 'm.  And to answer David B's question how I sharpen these small bits - - -  if there are still some of the side lands on them I first file the broken end flat, then find the spot where the land hits the filed top and file down at about a 60 degree angle so I get a cutting edge on the land.  I needed my optivisor with the extra magnifier to see it.  Most of the times I luck out.

 

@ Remco:  Hey man, are you psychic?  You read minds now too besides building magnificent models?  Yup, after looking at the rest of the fake doors I guess I have to do it, but am a bit nervous though.  I'm afraid in ruining the boat.  But I'll have to bite the bullet and go ahead with it, otherwise it won't look right, showing only one door with hinges.

 

@ Carl: yup, we are coming close now.  But Remco just dumped another project on me 

 

@ Nenad: Thank you CS magician Nenad!

 

Let me clue all of you in who the instigator is for the mine bun door and hinge.  His initials are Texxn5 John.  When he and his dear bride Diane came to visit he just casually dropped that one on me.  At first i didn't really wanted to do it but hey, I'm always up for a challenge and here you are John, a workable mine bin door with hinges.  Are you happy now????      

 

Cheers,