Jump to content
keelhauled

need opinions on furled sails

Recommended Posts

HI,

 

Working on the Cutty Sark and need some feedback on furled sails.

I'm calling the top version option 1 and the lower version option 2.

 

I've looked at different references  of the Cutty as she was during the tea trade and as the Fierra and have seen the royals furled differently.  

 

I made sails with the heights cut in half to reduce bulk.  I finished the sails and bent them to the jackstays then furled.

The sails and yards in the photos are the mizzen royal and the sky which are essentially the same size.

 

Neither is furled below the yard.  I've tried to pull the sails up as high as I could and still attach the slings, although option 2 is actually on top of the jackstays.

 

This is from the front

post-606-0-33856900-1453074029_thumb.jpg

Option 1 is at the top

Option 2 is on the bottom

 

This is from the top

post-606-0-91557400-1453074038_thumb.jpg

 

I have to say that I'm not as happy with the accordion look of option 2 from the sides.

 

Option 1 port side

post-606-0-39806800-1453074006_thumb.jpg

 

Option 2 port side

post-606-0-90367500-1453074017_thumb.jpg

 

Comments? Which would you go with?

 

thanks

Marc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Marc

 

I'm thinking of furled sails on my Le Mirage build (when I get round to the masts...) so this is interesting to me. I would say option 1 without any hesitation. I can't comment on historical accuracy but purely visually it just looks neater than option 2.

 

My two pennies worth anyway! :)

 

Nick

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think its possible to err to far on the side of "literal" in ship model building. The "Effect" you want is to have a model representationof the full size sail. Even though you use only 50% of the fabric of the sail, you are being too literal in my opinion, there is too much bulk. The visual effect of a furled sail, when it is carefully stowed in a nice furl by the crew, is of a much smoother and more tapered white taco-like shape sitting on the yard. The tapered ends of the bundle of sail are only a couple inches higher than the surface of the yard.  You are trying to literally furl the sail, by folding it tightly. But try as you may, the fabric you use will never fold up as tightly IN SCALE as on the real ship, your full scale fabric will not bend sharply or lie flat enough.

My advice is to discard the literal and embrace artifice. Make your sail out of a single fold of fabric and try to press the ends down tighter then the middle.

On my HMS Victory I made the furled sails out of paper while the rest of the sails, which were set, were of fabric. The paper was much easier to mold into the shapes I needed- I soaked the paper in white glue and glommed them into shape and when dry I painted the paper to match the color of the sails.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Frankie is right -  you cant just do a "scale"  - attached is a pic of what the real thing looks like furled.

MUCH MUCH tighter than you think

 

post-905-0-23443800-1453150606_thumb.jpg

 

 

 

Find the thinnest material possible and use as little material as possible - to produce a "packet".  What does add realism though is to represent the rigging attachments points as in the middle yard

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the responses guys!

 

 I'll get rid of more sail to reduce the bulk.  Maybe play with other material.  

I also made full versions. If I can't get a better furled version, I can go to set versions of the sails.

 

Marc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would use the finest material possible to make the sails. Egyptian cotton or even better: batiste. I'm at work now, but at home I have the designs to make model furled sails. Send me a PM and I will mail them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like this video. It starts with a sail that has been Clewed Up and then we see the sailors clime onto the yard and watch as they take all the steps to manipulate the sail into the much smaller and neater Furl.  Its still a bit difficult to see what is going on since all parts of the sail look alike. The lead blocks for the Clews and the Buntlines , the ones attached to the yard itself, determine where a lot of the canvas will wind up at the end since it is at these points that the foot of the sail is brought to the yard. Notice that most of the canvas starts out hanging between the two Buntline lead blocks on the yard and the Clews of the sail are out of sight on the aft side of the sail and masked from view untill the midpoint of the video when they are brought up on top of everything else on the yard. Not easy to see is that the crew is tucking much of the folded canvas under a "skin" of canvas- the part that will be visible on the outside of the furl. EVERYTHING but the Clews gets tucked under this skin which is then made as nearly as tight to a drum as a single membrane covering everything else. The skin is more areodynamic and will also shed water better.  

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Frankie,

I actually used your video to furl the sails originally. I followed the video pausing and executing step by step.  Fairly close at least.  But as you say, too much bulk.  However it was fun and challenging to furl the sail as close to that video as I could.  The biggest trouble is the tucking in of the sail under the skin.

 

AVSJerome and spyglass.  I'm planning on having the main and fore courses brought up into its gear as you have posted. 

 

thanks for the help.

Marc

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

JerseyCity Frankie, liked your post and the video, what really made it stand out in my mind was the last comment about shedding water. Temporarily partially furling sails, like post # 9 does make a bucket out of them but being only a method used for short time, useful, besides those people knew about the effects of water inside of a tightly rolled sail, hence the tucks under the skin, and one hanging with water troughs folded into the mix and avoided making those mistakes.

 

jud  :pirate41:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re. the furled sails of Columbia and Cuauhtemoc, posted by Tadeusz, some foreign training ships tend to display their sails like this at Tall Ships events. The skipper of a vessel I was on asked one of their captains, at one of these events, why they left them like this and he said that it was because it looked 'artistic'. Our skipper thought it looked untidy and unseamanlike and believed that the sails should have been given a proper 'harbour stow.' I have to say that I agree – there's nothing more pleasing than a well stowed sail.

 

Frankie is quite right about their actual stowing, although I would point out that the wind is also a factor in the way they are furled. I have stowed a few sails in my time and the mate, or whoever is in charge, was usually at pains to furl the sail properly, especially at sea where the wind can get into the sail and open it all out. Sometimes the crew would have to do it all over again, if he wasn't satisfied, and many of them had bruised knuckles afterwards!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

About us

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

SSL Secured

Your security is important for us so this Website is SSL-Secured

NRG Mailing Address

Nautical Research Guild
237 South Lincoln Street
Westmont IL, 60559-1917

About the NRG

If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is just right for you.

The Guild is a non-profit educational organization whose mission is to “Advance Ship Modeling Through Research”. We provide support to our members in their efforts to raise the quality of their model ships.

The Nautical Research Guild has published our world-renowned quarterly magazine, The Nautical Research Journal, since 1955. The pages of the Journal are full of articles by accomplished ship modelers who show you how they create those exquisite details on their models, and by maritime historians who show you the correct details to build. The Journal is available in both print and digital editions. Go to the NRG web site (www.thenrg.org) to download a complimentary digital copy of the Journal. The NRG also publishes plan sets, books and compilations of back issues of the Journal and the former Ships in Scale and Model Ship Builder magazines.

Our Emblem

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research
×
×
  • Create New...