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seaniem1971

Greek Trireme by seaniem1971 - Daniel Dusek - Scale 1:72 - 480 B.C.

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Hiya Folks,

       Just read the log guidelines and just opening my log. Hope I've complied with the forum rules. Received my model today via UPS. Only my second build and first on here in front of an audience!!! Hope it goes well. Hoping to have it completed in a couple of months - work permitting. However setting deadlines is probably the worst thing I can possibly do. Deep breaths ...  :)  :)

 

Next step gonna complete an inventory on the parts/materials and instructions and give first impressions later or tomorrow.

 

Thanks Sean

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Hiya Folks 

     Just gonna get this log going with a quick first impressions having unboxed the kit, completed an inventory of the parts and read through the instructions. 

 

This might seem superficial as a start point but the kit arrived in a heavy duty cardboard outer carton well packaged and unlikely to be damaged in transit. The kit box inside was a lot heavier material than the previous Amati Drakkar kit which I built. So far so good. 

 

post-11161-0-31519500-1454669117_thumb.jpg

 

The parts were all accounted for and inside a polythene bag was the build instructions and 4 what seem like scale drawings in different projections of the ship itself. Also a catalog of the kit range from Dusek.

 

post-11161-0-55657000-1454669135_thumb.jpg

 

A count and parts numbering system was contained at the back of the instruction manual which seemed pretty clear albeit I have only sped read it at this stage. It contains demonstration diagrams and instruction narrative. The English is a bit disjointed in places but I think that is to be expected give that the kit is manufactured by a family business in Czech Republic.

 

post-11161-0-71124900-1454670331_thumb.jpg

 

One A4 sheet for the keel and hull construction and then 3 other 1:1 scale drawings of the ship. These seem quite clear at this point. All good so far. 

 

post-11161-0-71124900-1454670331_thumb.jpg

 

On inspection of the various parts, the planking seems to be of good quality and there is little variance in size certainly judging by basic visual inspection. 

 

post-11161-0-77641200-1454671637_thumb.jpg

 

The lower decks seem to be formed by gluing a wood veneer (with planking lines)  onto a base board. The veneer is VERY thin at about 0.5mm. Mmmmmm a bit disappointing TBH. 

 

post-11161-0-49996100-1454671659_thumb.jpg

 

The main masts material is 4mm dowel and the foremast seems very lightweight at just under 3mm (2.93mm). Again a bit disappointing as the kit box photo and marketing photos indicate a more substantive material.

 

The sail material is very thin cotton (0.18mm) and this is accompanied by the rigging which is again a fairly lightweight thread. Not sure Ill use either TBH. The ram is made from metal and seems fine. 

 

post-11161-0-70020600-1454671808_thumb.jpg

 

Other materials seem fine and are all laser cut. 

 

post-11161-0-74731600-1454671711_thumb.jpg

post-11161-0-13588600-1454671734_thumb.jpg

 

Hope I've covered everything for a first step. 

Now on with the build....... :)  :)

 

Thanks Sean

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Right so following the instructions I have taken the lower deck and glued the veneer to the under-board.

 

post-11161-0-70363100-1454674968_thumb.jpg

 

The veneer warps and curls up such is the thinness of the material and I had to clamp down the edges to prevent curling.

 

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post-11161-0-59840600-1454675732_thumb.jpg

 

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Next I glued a 2mm x 2mm beam (# 26) for the lower deck seats into position on the plank effect veneer and sub board. The beam is actually 2mm x 2.5mm or thereabouts......

 

I then cut out 27 seats for each side. I need to get a guillotine or chop as I am hand cutting (razor sawing these and they are varying in width somewhat.  :(  :( A very tedious activity when doing it as I have done so I put on some Van Morrison to ease the pain and get me through!!! :D  :D. The seats are made from # 30 strips 1 x 4mm as stade in the parts listing but are actually 4.3mm in width. The lenght of the seats are approx 5mm from the drawings but some concerns on that below when I went to place the seats on the beam or rail and placed the laser cut out of the deck onto the drawings. 

 

post-11161-0-83395900-1454677670_thumb.jpg

 

post-11161-0-87001100-1454676584_thumb.jpg

 

It is also noted that the actual laser cut out deck panels and plank effect veneer does not fit exactly onto the drawing meaning that the drawings aren't exactly 1:1 in fact. It about 4mm off. Mmmm........I have used the drawings for the seat interval lengths so hoping that this doesn't affect anything. The drawings aren't denoted as being 1:1 in fact so maybe thats me assuming something that i shouldn't. I cant see any other way of referencing however in the absence of them being that scale. 

 

post-11161-0-58060900-1454676669_thumb.jpg

 

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post-11161-0-58060900-1454676669_thumb.jpg

 

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Not the best really and am pretty disappointed by this. Anyway here's the finished lower decks with seats. 

 

post-11161-0-27006200-1454677372_thumb.jpg

 

OK. So thats the first step completed. Given my inexperience not sure whether I am over-reacting or not on the quality of the veneer decking and on the dims of the parts so far and the I think mismatch on the drawing scales to the lasered cut outs. Next stage is the Keel and Hull construction. 

 

Thanks Sean

post-11161-0-00988800-1454676808_thumb.jpg

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Apologies - some of the photos in my last update seem out of sequence. Dunno why this is happening. I'll wait until I have typed the update next time before I attach any jpegs. Schoolboy errors I expect...... :)

 

Thanks Sean

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Hi Sean.

"The lower decks seem to be formed by gluing a wood veneer (with planking lines)  onto a base board. The veneer is VERY thin at about 0.5mm. Mmmmmm a bit disappointing TBH. "

Most Veneers are this thick and it's a standard thickness.

 

"The main masts material is 4mm dowel and the foremast seems very lightweight at just under 3mm (2.93mm). Again a bit disappointing as the kit box photo and marketing photos indicate a more substantive material."

 It's a scale model and a mast that is oversize would ruin the whole model.

 

 

"The sail material is very thin cotton (0.18mm) and this is accompanied by the rigging which is again a fairly lightweight thread. Not sure Ill use either TBH. "

we all suffer with sail material being too thick and not looking right. If you purchase thicker material then compare the looks before committing it to the model.

 

Will follow along with this build..

 

Regards Antony.

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Hi Sean.

We have all been there.. It's caused by selecting all the photos and uploading them and not putting the one in the post. Which appears at the bottom of the post.

Or u uploaded it twice.

 

A very nice start..

Veneer is best glue applied then clamped flat between tow pieces of thick timber.

 

Regards Antony.

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Sean, I'll grab a seat to follow along. And I've brought some popcorn, too. post-15839-0-32706900-1454679193.gif

 

We all seem to get photos jumbled, so I try to always use the Review Post button when I compose a reply with pictures with the full editor screen. That way if the order of layout isn't to my liking, I can adjust it. Hang in there!

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Hi Sean.

"The lower decks seem to be formed by gluing a wood veneer (with planking lines)  onto a base board. The veneer is VERY thin at about 0.5mm. Mmmmmm a bit disappointing TBH. "

Most Veneers are this thick and it's a standard thickness.

 

"The main masts material is 4mm dowel and the foremast seems very lightweight at just under 3mm (2.93mm). Again a bit disappointing as the kit box photo and marketing photos indicate a more substantive material."

 It's a scale model and a mast that is oversize would ruin the whole model.

 

 

"The sail material is very thin cotton (0.18mm) and this is accompanied by the rigging which is again a fairly lightweight thread. Not sure Ill use either TBH. "

we all suffer with sail material being too thick and not looking right. If you purchase thicker material then compare the looks before committing it to the model.

 

Will follow along with this build..

 

Regards Antony.

 

Thanks Anthony for the feedback. On the veneer point you make, I don't dispute that this is the standard thickness of the veneer.  i guess the point I was trying to make is that a physically planked deck would have been a nicer detail. ceratinly not trying to be a purist or anything just a preference I would have.  I certainly take your points on the dowel for the masts and indeed I'll follow your advice on the sails and see how it turns out. 

 

Thanks again for the advice

 

Sean

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Hi Sean.

We have all been there.. It's caused by selecting all the photos and uploading them and not putting the one in the post. Which appears at the bottom of the post.

Or u uploaded it twice.

 

A very nice start..

Veneer is best glue applied then clamped flat between tow pieces of thick timber.

 

Regards Antony.

 

thanks again Antony. Good point on the veneer too. 

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Sean, I'll grab a seat to follow along. And I've brought some popcorn, too. attachicon.gifpopcorn.gif

 

We all seem to get photos jumbled, so I try to always use the Review Post button when I compose a reply with pictures with the full editor screen. That way if the order of layout isn't to my liking, I can adjust it. Hang in there!

 

Thanks Canute - report card reads at the moment " must try harder" ha ha. 

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Hi Sean ,I have just fitted the veneer sheet deck on the Santa Maria also from Daniel Dursk and at first like you i was a bit dissapointed that the decking was not in individual strips as was suggested in the instructions ,but i fitted them anyway and after a coat of poly they look quite good ,and i must admit it,s a very speedy way to lay a deck . You could always buy a few strips of your prefered wood and plank over them if you prefere . i think the individual planks were originally supplied with the kit but Daniel now seems to prefere the deck sheet . Good luck with your build !!

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Good progress Sean.

 I always use contact adhesive for veneer. It's solvent based and sticks immediately. The solvent means there's no water in the glue (unlike PVA wood glue) and the wood doesn't distort or wrinkle as the water is absorbed into the wood fibers from the PVA glue. And there's no need to clamp it for hours until it's dry.

 

The down side is that you only get one shot at sticking it down so it had better be right.. :(  

 

I also quite like the look of those laser engraved planks. if you use one of those propelling pencils with the very thin leads you can draw in plank joints and nails on the surface then a quick shot of poly varnish and they look very realistic.

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So far, so good, Sean.  Looks good from over here in the cheap seats... :)

 

If you haven't done so, have a look here:  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/540-how-to-add-pictures-in-your-posts-and-pms/   I think you're missing a step about "adding to post".

 

Thank you for the link. Think I have it now. Gonna do an update soon so we soon find out!!  :D  :D

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Hi Sean ,I have just fitted the veneer sheet deck on the Santa Maria also from Daniel Dursk and at first like you i was a bit dissapointed that the decking was not in individual strips as was suggested in the instructions ,but i fitted them anyway and after a coat of poly they look quite good ,and i must admit it,s a very speedy way to lay a deck . You could always buy a few strips of your prefered wood and plank over them if you prefere . i think the individual planks were originally supplied with the kit but Daniel now seems to prefere the deck sheet . Good luck with your build !!

 

Thanks Shihawk. Its the first time i have seen or used it so i suppose that its just an initial disappointment. Having said that I've only built one ship before this so I don't have an extensive knowledge or alot of experience. I certainly don't want to be overly critical either.......I'm happy enough with the kit generally. I've already laid the veneer now so just gonna keep going. 

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Good progress Sean.

 I always use contact adhesive for veneer. It's solvent based and sticks immediately. The solvent means there's no water in the glue (unlike PVA wood glue) and the wood doesn't distort or wrinkle as the water is absorbed into the wood fibers from the PVA glue. And there's no need to clamp it for hours until it's dry.

 

The down side is that you only get one shot at sticking it down so it had better be right.. :(  

 

I also quite like the look of those laser engraved planks. if you use one of those propelling pencils with the very thin leads you can draw in plank joints and nails on the surface then a quick shot of poly varnish and they look very realistic.

That's a great suggestion and one that ill use in future now and it makes perfect sense as i was using PVA. Your other tip on the propelling pencils is also smart. Thank you. 

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Ok so now for the keel and hull assembly. 

 

post-11161-0-75577200-1454781977_thumb.jpg

 

post-11161-0-43981800-1454782004_thumb.jpg

 

The keel is assembled from a plywood centre spine (4mm) and parts 1a-1g (all laser cut parts 4mm) which form the bottom of the keel. Parts 1a-1g are glued to the bottom of the plywood spine. All parts are all easily cut out and they assemble accurately and tightly together. Happy with that. 

 

post-11161-0-37800300-1454782150_thumb.jpg 

 

post-11161-0-85963400-1454782441_thumb.jpg

 

There are also a number of what are called 'reinforcements' which are glued outside of the curved keel at the stern of the ship. These will facilitate the curved decking later on.

 

 

 

Now for the Hull frame. 

 

Each part is easily identified from an A4 drawing contained in the kit.

 

 post-11161-0-13171600-1454782869_thumb.jpg

 

I clamped my finished keel and placed the frames in sequence as denoted in the instructions. Simple. Was a bit paranoid on the squareness of each frame piece as the last model I completed there were a few that were not exactly squared and it caused difficulties on the hull planking and the decking planking. Anyway used a miniature set square and all seems fine. Also clamped the frames vertically to ensure alignment along the length of the hull.

 

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post-11161-0-60376000-1454783271_thumb.jpg

 

Next glued two 2 x 2 mm strips along the inside of the frames as denoted in instructions - these will act as the 2nd level deck seat beams. Also clamped to ensure straight and even fit.

 

post-11161-0-14971500-1454783343_thumb.jpg

 

Next was bending and fitting the veneer decking (with plywood underboard) at the bow and the stern. The one at the stern no problem and used a couple of pieces of timber to clamp both pieces together as suggested by Antony in an earlier post. Worked great and little to no warping of the veneer. I'll use the contact glue option maybe in the future as I have a couple more of these to do later on in the build. The larger of the two however needs to be curved as per the shape of the keel at the stern.

 

post-11161-0-31522700-1454784931_thumb.jpg

 

Hadn't done this before so simply placed the piece in a mug of boiling water and then when I took it out used the outside of the hot mug to shape the curve on the decking. Glued and clamped to deck when I had the basic shape. Probably unconventional but anyway it worked!! Hurray!!  :D  :D

 

post-11161-0-11352000-1454784940_thumb.jpg

 

Lastly I fitted the two lower decks with seats and glued in place. Voila.  :D  :D

 

post-11161-0-32755000-1454784952_thumb.jpg

 

Coming along ok and thanks to all for the advice and tips so far. Next step is the hull planking which I will have to bend and shape planks which I haven't attempted before :huh:  :huh:  :o  :o so Ill have to read up on here about that before I attempt anything so that'll take a few days with probably a couple of pilot runs before I attempt it on the model.  Enjoying this so far but I think the hard yards are ahead for me..... :o  :o  any way ill just keep plodding away....

 

I've also learned how to post properly. Thank you mtaylor  :)  :)

 

Enjoy rest of weekend all

Sean 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Sean, the framing and aft deck look good. :dancetl6:

 

Wrapping the piece around the mug was great. I've use various tin cans to do the same. Overbend them; the wood tends to spring back to close enough to the curve you need.

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Hi Sean.

Fantastic work and I do like people that follow the instructions.. :)

As you have done keeping the frames square is Very important and you will be rewarded with a model that looks right.

Very nice work. Especially on the curving of the deck.

 

Regards Antony.

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Sean, the framing and aft deck look good. :dancetl6:

 

Wrapping the piece around the mug was great. I've use various tin cans to do the same. Overbend them; the wood tends to spring back to close enough to the curve you need.

Thanks Canute - necessity is the mother of invention they say.........anxious now having read the planking literature in the help section here - bearding lines rabbet lines etc etc.  :o  :o . I don't have an electric plank bender so this is going to be 'interesting'....So far its been quite straight forward - very ACDC, the next few days will be more Leonard Cohen me thinks !! Heh heh. Thanks again for sharing. 

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Hi Sean.

Fantastic work and I do like people that follow the instructions.. :)

As you have done keeping the frames square is Very important and you will be rewarded with a model that looks right.

Very nice work. Especially on the curving of the deck.

 

Regards Antony.

 

Cheers Antony. Agree with the frames. Lots of problems with my last model because of this on the planking (I've placed it against a wall so that the differences in the hull planking are not apparent). The deck planks  however are not exactly square as a result which is visible on close inspection. Schoolboy errors really. Feel like a bit of a automaton following the instructions so exactly obviously because of a lack of experience and expertise. Would love to be more 'free flow' and autonomous like you guys. Looking at some of the stuff in the gallery last night again - Wow. 

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So I've started the planking process after reading some of the literature on the site. Mmmmm think I'm gonna struggle......

 

The drawings seem to indicate that the planks will run horizontally along the length of the hull with obvious plank bending required on the bow and stern (which curves upwards also  :(  :( ). I've read a few of the logs on here for this model to see exactly how these are completed and downloaded some of the photos for reference even though most of these are scratch builds not kit builds. The kit instructions are not particularly good in this regard for someone at my level.  

 

post-11161-0-09625700-1454851780_thumb.jpg

 

post-11161-0-80306700-1454851801_thumb.jpg

 

post-11161-0-21649400-1454851818_thumb.jpg

 

The first obvious challenge is that the length of the planking strips 2x2 for the first 6 rows and then 2x3 for the remainder are not long enough to run from bow to stern. So the first decision is where to join the strips........Mmmmmmm ..... pretty disappointing. A build log by Ships88 on here shows some of the detail and he has left the planking short towards the stern where it also is required to curve upwards. I guess I'll go with this solution at this time. I'll read some more and make a final decision later. 

 

Hope my terminology is correct here its only taken from some of the literature as a first read so it will improve in time - I hope. :) .

 

Anyway first steps was to cut and sand down with my Dremel the 'bearding' lines on the bow to take the first plank. I've taken material off the bulwark and the next two adjacent frames.......hope this is correct.

 

post-11161-0-16171500-1454851971_thumb.jpg

 

Just gonna take my time here as I haven't completed plank bending before. Having read through the building tips and techniques section. I have decided to use a steam iron to do the bending. All I am doing is putting a fairly small bend in the 2x2mm strips for the first six rows on the port side of the bow. I have a hand plank bender which i didnt want to use for the top strips as the impressions show at the top of the strip and is unsightly.  The Mantua roller type bender I have broke several strips so I've left it alone. Not sure that i am using it correctly either. 

 

post-11161-0-62634500-1454852370_thumb.jpg

 

Lastly I don't have the right clamps to fix the first strip to the top of the frames as there is a support bar that runs across which impedes my ability to be able to use standard pegs, clips or clamps that I have. This update shows hardly any or slow progress but learning as I go along.

 

Thanks Sean  

 

 

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Hello Sean,

I read you log, it is nice build. I would like to explain you some thinks in the kit and give you some recommendation for help to build the model as you wrote that not everythink is clear in the instructions.

1) For glueing of the veneer deck is good to use some dense white glue (I use for example Bison which I bought in DIY shop which seems to be good or it is possible to use cyanoacrylate glue but in that case there is no second chance. Using of very thin white glue lead to deformation of the venner as you wrote).

2) In the kit is packed 0,5mm rigging rope, so it is 36mm thick rope in 1/72 scale which is maybe little more than in real ancient ships was used.

3) Also the sail cloth is thick because the most modellers and me too prefer them.

4) Also the dowels 2-4mm are exact dimension which I used for prototype model.

5) I am little confused that the plans are not fit to the parts, I need to check it next week where is the problem and then I will let you know.

6) about the planking the hull- I would like to really recommend you to buy electric plank bender especially if you plan to do more wooden ship models in future. You will see that the work with electric bender  is much more easy (or it is possible to use alternatively electric solder or someone use iron). But if you have not it you should put the strips into the water for more time (let them in water approximatelly for 2 hours as it is hard wood it have to absorb the water for longer time, than you can boiled them). The final radius of bending you should do in more steps. I recommend you to start planking with one strip on stern, than glue it gradually to the frames in direction from stern to bow. Then start the glueing the second strip from bow and glue it to the frames in direction from bow to stern. 

Let me know please if it help you. I can prepare also some additional pictures if the instructions will be not enought clear for you.

I hope the building will follow well in future.

Daniel 

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Hi Sean.

Wow fast progress with this kit.

 

"The first obvious challenge is that the length of the planking strips 2x2 for the first 6 rows and then 2x3 for the remainder are not long enough to run from bow to stern. So the first decision is where to join the strips........Mmmmmmm ..... pretty disappointing."

Yes I think there should be some mention of this in the instructions..

 

Make the joints on a bulkhead near the end of the plank length then the next one at the other end of the boat on a bulkhead.

If the boat is planked inside you can add extra timber on the side of the bulkhead where the join is. But your bulkheads look quite thick so you might not need to add the extra timber.

And yes steaming the strips before fitting and leting then dry is the best method.

I use elastic bands for holding the more difficult strips in place.

 

Regards Antony.

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