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Finding Flax Thread - Tips?


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I have  a very old Aurora/Heller 1/50th scale model of the French ship class "Le Chebec". I have finally gotten it mostly together, but I have run out of the rigging thread then supplied. Heller now makes the same ship by themselves and I was able to download the new instructions. They now say the thread is not supplied and that I need .03mm, .06mm and .09mm Flax Thread (beige). I can't seem to find this anywhere locally (in NC, USA) and no luck on the internet.

 

Can anyone provide a tip for where to find this? So close after 30+ years to finishing this model....

 

Thanks in advance for any help! 

Edited by Dstevenson81
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Since no one else seems to want this:

Flax is the plant - the fiber that is made from the crushed/combed stalk is generally know as linen.

You may have better luck searching for linen yarn or linen thread.  Linen fibers are something like a magnitude more course than cotton, so what is generally known as thread with cotton is a yarn with linen.

That said, if your desired line sizes are correct, you would do better looking for spider silk.  The finest that I have is:

100/3 lea and the diameter is 0.0088 inches  @ 1:48  0.42 inches dia or 1.3 inches circumference.   This is 0.22 mm dia.

 

That came from :  http://www.threadneedlestreet.com/ .....  thread - linen    http://www.threadneedlestreet.com/

 

If you have the size you want wrong, then a straight forward solution is :  http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/miniature-rope.php

 

Rigging line can be confusing.   At model scales, we tend to use diameter to determine size.  It is usually measured by counting the number of cycles per inch on a dowel.

I think the old rigging books for the full size ships used rope circumference.  It would be much easier for them to measure - a piece of string and a ruler.

Diameter is would be difficult to directly measure -  the rope deforms when you "mic" it directly.

 

 

 

 

Linen is a challenge because there are several standards - lea is the one I use.

100/3  means that  three yarns of 100 size are twisted up into a thread. It can be used directly for rigging. It is not too different from #100 Mercerized cotton thread in size.

 

8/3 linen  is three 8 lea yarns and is close to twine in size.   With lea  - the larger the value, the finer the yarn.

 

Linen yarn is a raw material for a rope walk to turn into miniature rope

 

You could do a search here = ropewalk    to get some idea

 

sources :  http://www.theobrejaart.nl/   for linen yarn         http://www.theobrejaart.nl/frame.html

 

http://www.villagespinweave.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0705/product-id/744625.html   linen yarn  http://www.villagespinweave.com/IBS/SimpleCat/Product/asp/hierarchy/0705/product-id/744625.html

Edited by Jaager

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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I believe Bluejacket (one of the sites advertisers) carries several sizes of linen thread.
Good luck with your project.

Mark
Phoenix, AZ


Current builds;


Previous builds, in rough order of execution;
Shipjack, Peterbrough Canoe, Flying Fish, Half Moon, Britannia racing sloop, Whale boat, Bluenose, Picket boat, Viking longboat, Atlantic, Fair American, Mary Taylor, half hull Enterprise, Hacchoro, HMS Fly, Khufu Solar Boat.

On the shelf; Royal Barge, Jefferson Davis.

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I have purchased both flax and linen thread quite cheaply from antique/ collectable shops. Apparently the spools they come on are collectable.

Hornet

 

Current Build: - OcCre Shackleton’s Endurance. 

 

Completed Ship Builds:

                                     Caldercraft - HM Bark Endeavour. (in Gallery)

                                    Caldercraft  - HMAV Bounty (in Gallery)

                                     Caldercraft - HM Brig Supply (In Gallery)

                                     Aeropiccola - Golden Hind

                                                        - Constitution

                                     Clipper Seawitch (maker unknown - too long ago to remember!)

                                     Corel - Victory

                                     Modeller's Shipyard - A Schooner of Port Jackson - In Gallery

                                                                      - Brig `Perseverance' - In Gallery

                                                                      - Cutter `Mermaid'- In Gallery

                                                                      - Sirius Longboat (bashed) - In Gallery

                                                                      - Sloop Norfolk - In Gallery

                                      Completed Cannon:   - French 18th Century Naval Cannon

                                                                      - Napoleonic 12 pound field piece

                                                                      - English 18th Century Carronade

                                       Non Ship Builds - Sopwith Camel - Artesania Latina

                                                                   - Fokker DR1 - Artesania Latina

                                               

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Linen can also be found on E-Bay under the name many times of Cuttyhunk or fishing line.  That is usually much larger though but a cleaner form of linen.  I have searched high and low for nice linen without nubs and have been unable to find it in the last ten years of so.  I have reluctantly gone to DMC Cordonnet cotton thread and found it to work nicely in my rope machine.  Good luck!

Bill

 

Current Build:

Kate Cory Scratch Built

 

Previous Builds:

Benjamin W. Latham Scratch Built

H A Parks Skipjack Scratch Built

Charles W. Morgan Model Shipways Kit

Rattlesnake Model Shipways Kit

Diligence Model Shipways Kit

 

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I agree with Dee_Dee - could well be the color.  I did buy some linen thread recently to experiment with a ropewalk. As mentioned it is often sized as something like 18/3 or 30/3.   When I was searching for thread I noticed a lot of sites related to antique books sell it. I believe it it used in the binding.

 

Of the 3 threads I ended up with, 2 were manufactured in Germany, 1 in Ireland.  One interesting side note, virtually all thread you buy is a right lay.  The 2 German threads were left lay.

Sail on...... Mike         "Dropped a part? Your shoe will always find it before your eyes do"

Current Builds:                                                          Completed Builds:

Lancia Armata 1803 - Panart                                   US Brig Niagara - Model ShipwaysSection Deck Between Gun Bays - Panart  ; Arrow American Gunboat - Amati    

 Riva Aquarama - Amati                                           T24 RC Tugboat  ;  Hispaniola - Megow - Restoration ; Trajta - by Mikiek - Marisstella ; Enterprise 1799 - Constructo                             

                                                                   
                                                               

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My measurements of the Threadneedle Street product:

 

Size           dia.           1/48 dia           1/48 cir.

100/3        0.0088       0.42                 1.3

80/3          0.01           0.48                 1.5

50/3          0.012         0.6                   1.86

30/3          0.019         0.09                 2.8

 

I did not get any 18/3  but from my ropewalk:

20/3          0.025         1.14                 3.6

 

the largest that I have:

8/2 /3       0.059          2.8                   8.9

 

The stock was 8/2 lea  three lines turned up.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

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Threadneedle has this chart made for them by a modeller.  

 

http://www.threadneedlestreet.com/LINEN%20RIGGING.pdf

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Thanks a ton folks. This is indeed helpful.  I now see that I was in error though. It is calling for .3, .6 and .9 mm flax thread. The orignal rigging thread that was in the box and listed as "medium" and "thick" is fairly stout and somewhat rigid (great for getting through the knots!). I assume they would be the .6 and .9mm thread mentioned in the newer instructions.

 

I'll take a look at the sites listed and report back. Thanks again!

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Awesome! Looks like I found it. There is a rope chart found at the site Jaager sent ( http://www.syrenshipmodelcompany.com/miniature-rope.php) and I was able to match up what I needed. That site also converts from standard to metric. Turns out I need .012 standard (or .3mm).

 

Just goes to show that one is never too old to learn! Thanks again everyone! :-)

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