Deben 5-tonner by vaddoc - FINISHED - Scale 1:10 - a Whisstock yard design

[vaddoc]

There is a heat wave here in England and the garage is getting a bit too hot so work is suspended till it cools. However, I have finished the mast part of the running rigging.

 

7. Topsail leader. This is essentially a line running down from the top of the mast to a block at the tabernacle. Its purpose is to provide a somewhat fixed point for the luff of the topsail to be attached. This is shackled to the top sail downhaul so that both can be tighten with the same line.

8. Topsail downhaul. As above 

9. Topsail outhaul. This is attached to the clew of the topsail, through a sheave at the end of the gaff and then led down to the cabin roof

10. Topsail halliard. No purchases needed.

 

This concludes this part of the rigging and all the lines should be visible on the photos that follow. I used two bought shackles as they have the advantage that they can be removed. This is important as the rigging for the topsail needs to be taken down when the sales are furled an in this case the topsail halliard will be shackled to the leader. You may notice an unused block at the starboard side attached to the tabernacle, it just needs to be removed. The black thread on the gaff and boom are just to keep things together

Next probably to do some work on the boom, I ll need to make a mock main sail. The worrying part will be the sheets for the foresails

 

Vaddoc

[KeithAug]

On 5/20/2020 at 3:49 PM, vaddoc said:

There is a heat wave here in England and the garage is getting a bit too hot so work is suspended till it cools.

All looking very neat.
Yes very hot today, fortunately my workshop ( former garage) is north facing and on days like today is the coolest place in the house. Bad in winter but good in summer. 

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Vaddoc

 

I don't have a lot of experience with topsails, but I don't think they need much adjustment - they tend to do what the mainsail does. I thought that they don't need much once set up. That's if you want to free up one of the cleats.

 

On the jibs, are you thinking of putting blocks on the sail clews?

[vaddoc]

Well Mark, I am following what the books say. I did quite a lot of search on the topsail previously, usually topsails are attached to the top mast with hoops or to a pole. The problem is that someone needs to go up the mast to set it up or send the pole up which is fiddly. The Deben has a flying top sail which is easier to set up but needs lots of tension as there are no real attachment points to the mast.

Instead it uses a leader, which is simply a line from the top mast to the deck and the top sail clips on it on 2-3 points. This leader needs to be seriously tight hence the need for blocks. The books mention an elegant solution which is to tie the bottom end of the leader to the topsail downhaul so that one pulls the other and all get very tight. This is what I followed.

 

As for the jibs, the top jib will just need straight lines, the flying jib one block (for each sheet) but the staysail will need some serious power so couple of blocks each side. I am struggling a bit to find space aft though, the main sail sheet and the backstays also need to be added as well as the rails. The Deben is a small boat, just five tons but this is actually the rigging plan!

[FriedClams]

Deben is looking beautiful Vaddoc.  Seems that you're not far from the finish line.  I like all the rigging work that you've done - so neat and precise,  just like the rest of the model.  Great stuff.

 

Gary

[vaddoc]

Thanks Gary! One problem is how clean it looks, following your log I ve been tempted to build something weathered and used. Some day...

 

I ve been fairly busy over the last few days. I completed a big task: I made the sails!

I do not have the exact dimensions and either way, I made the bowsprit longer as I wanted a more dramatic look so I had to eyeball the shape. The large scale allows proper fabric to be used, I got some cheap curtain liner actually the first day the lockdown was lifted here in England.

I used a type of seam glue to glue the edges, folding twice. On the second fold I inserted rope. It took a while and I had a few failures. I also manage to rip the Admirals ironing board cover but got off lightly as it was due to be changed eitherway.

I then unfortunately run out of single blocks. This was something I was hoping would not happen, making the blocks is serious work. I took a big breath and sat down and made a few, thankfully I had a few leftover pieces that were just enough. I also run out of sheaves but I think I have enough blocks now. For future builds, no more functional blocks!

Then I started rigging the sails. The girls are very active so my presence is needed in the house, only solution to bring the boat in. I used stainless steel wire to make the cleats that bind the sails to the stays. These will be cut and removed when the sails are furled after the boat is completed.

Best wishes to all

Vaddoc

[KeithAug]

9 minutes ago, vaddoc said:

I got some cheap curtain liner actually the first day the lockdown was lifted here in England.

Very neat looking sails, inevitably you suffer from the perennial problem, namely that the wind does not blow them into an elegant curve. Are you planning to give them shape and if so how?

 

On the point of the lockdown being lifted is this a Cambridge thing? Down here in West Sussex the only change seems to have been we can go on longer dog walks - still very few non-essentail shops open and definitely not cloth shops.

[vaddoc]

Thanks Keith! After the boat is finished I ll bring the sails down and tie them as if the boat is at anchor. But after photos are taken for the gallery, I ll need to think what to do with the boat.  No space to display.

Here in Cambridgeshire some shops are open, schools have opened, parks have lots of people and overall I get the impression that if there is still a lockdown, it isn't very strict.

[Bedford]

Boys, we've got pubs open already!

 

[vaddoc]

Interesting. I tried to have a coffee with my mask on, very difficult. Clearly a technological breakthrough is needed!

[cog]

2 hours ago, vaddoc said:

I tried to have a coffee with my mask on, very difficult.

a straw, and a valve to connect the straw to in your mask, and a teat on the inside ...

[Bedford]

We never got so bad as to require masks, they were suggested but not required.

We have had 100 deaths nation wide and for the last 8 days there have been no new cases of community transmitted covid in NSW 

[vaddoc]

Some more work done so time for another update

 

I finished the main sail and added the reef points. The quickest and easiest way was to use a continuous length of rope, secured with tape and use diluted PVA to the junction with the sail. Then I used CA glue to prevent the rope from being undone and cut to length.

I then laced the main sail to the mast hoops which was a very satisfying job and then to the gaff, which was not!  I also added to the underside of the gaff the block for the topsail outhaul and a simple line to just pull the gaff down. I also added the reef pennants

There is some extra rope at the end of the gaff that I ll trim later, also a few extra hoops that I will also remove later. Bit of a shame to cut them as it took an awful lot of work to make them!

 

Next to be done: The reef pennants need a cleat on the boom to take the slack and a couple of blocks to pull on the other end. I need to complete the main sheet outhaul and add a couple of cleats to the topsail to attach to the leader. Of course the main sail needs to be laced to the boom. 

Then I ll attach the sheets for all the foresails will all their block and cleats and bulls eyes. Then the rudder will be added and then somehow the mainsheet with its traveller, many blocks and cleats.

EDIT: I also need to add the rails, the lazyjacks and the backstays!

 

Then I just need a barrel of rum and I ll be ready to sail into the horizon!

 

Vaddoc

 

 

[druxey]

Look on the bright side: better to have too many mast hoops than find yourself short by a few at this stage! She looks ready to set off now. Very nice.

[Mark Pearse]

Bravo, that's looking very nice. The sails came up great.

[vaddoc]

Thanks Druxey and Mark and everyone that visited and hit the like button!

 

Slowly I am nibbling at the jobs left. Today I replaced the gaff traveller wire as the lacing went on the wrong side of it, much easier than to re-lace the sail. I also finished the remaining rigging for the boom, that is the clew outhaul and the reefing blocks. I installed two more cleats on the boom. I also rigged the sheets and blocks for the top and flying jibs.

Next job was to make more cleats. I thought I had made enough but I ll need more, thankfully I had some blanks left, already drilled and counter-drilled. 

I am now thinking how to route the sheets from the fore sails to the cockpit. I will need some tethering points as well as some conduits. However, I recently got a new toy, a cheap micro tap and die set so I thought I ll give it a go.

I used 1.2 mm brass wire, first annealed by heating it red hot, then rolled between 2 flat MDF surfaces to straighten it. Then I secured it on a hand drill and cut the threads. I am not sure how this should be done, I just tried holes until I found the first one that the wire would not fit and used that one.

It was dead easy to cut the threads. The threaded wire now screws very easily in 1.1 mm hole and very securely, there will be no need to use any glue. I think this skill will be useful in the future.

 

I then made a few parts that I think will do the job. They still need to be polished and waxed.

I think next I should lace the sail to the boom, tedious task but must be done. Then I ll start bringing the sheets aft, I will not drill anything in place until everything is ready, my deck will for sure be very busy and crowded. I do have some concern that not everything will fit!

 

Regards

Vaddoc

[KeithAug]

Such a lot of work on the sails and all looking very neat. Impressive.

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Vaddoc

 

Your horn cleats are very delicately shaped, beautifully done.

 

Did you decide to keep the mainsail loose-footed? (A previous post you mentioned lacing it to the boom). 

[vaddoc]

2 hours ago, Mark Pearse said:

Did you decide to keep the mainsail loose-footed?

Thanks Mark! No, I will lace it, it is just that I find the task boring so I keep putting it off. It involves drilling the fabric, dilating the hole, pass a tube, pass the rope through the tube, then around the boom and through the previous loop and then repeat 40 odd times!

I ve been visiting your log, your plans have had 90 years to mature which is plenty enough!😉

[michael mott]

Hi Vaddoc, just catching up, wow you have done a lot of work the rigging and sails look wonderful.

 

Michael

[vaddoc]

10 hours ago, michael mott said:

Hi Vaddoc, just catching up, wow you have done a lot of work the rigging and sails look wonderful.

 

Thanks Michael, we certainly have missed your company!

[vaddoc]

Well, the end is very near but I am struggling with the rigging and I badly need some advice! I will try and explain as best as I can and have taken a few pictures but please bare with me, the boat is large and my photo skills bad so if further pictures are needed to explain the situation please just ask.

 

First of all I laced the boom

I also made a brass pulley to re route the backstays from vertical to horizontal. These are offset inwards to follow the course of the backstays to the mast. There will be quite a lot of tension so I ll use screws to secure to the deck

I took out the rudder I ve made a very long time ago, it is quite huge! It is painted with Valejo acrylics and satin and matt polyurethane varnish, no brush marks at all! Modern acrylics are amazing.

Now, to get to the problems

 

1. I have very little space for cleats, I need at least three on each side. Is the position of the cleats on the coaming acceptable? If not I could make some round bases attached to the outside of the coamings to screw the cleats on but the coamings are very thick, as thick as the cleats.

The next questions are about the sheets of the three fore sails, the top jib, the flying jib and the staysail.

 

2. The only way the sheet from the topjib will not rub and catch on anything is to go in between the shrouds that go to mid mast and the shroud that goes to the top of the mast. The sheet then will go through an eye on the deck and then to a cleat aft. Is this ok?

3. The flying jib will have a single block on the clew, one end of the sheet will go to the deck. However, the sheet, in order to clear other ropes, has to go to an eye or block on the cabin top and then to a cleat aft, next to the companionway. I ve never seen a jib sheet going to the cabin top, is this acceptable?

4. It seems that the staysail sheet is the easiest one. The books say that this is a powerful sail so two blocks will be needed to tension it, the sheet going aft to a cleat. How do people feel about this?

 

The cleat that is closest to the bow in this proposed arrangement will be used for the mainsail sheet.

 

Very many questions I know, I hope I ve explained adequately, any advice will be greatly appreciated!

 

Regards

Vaddoc

 

 

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Vaddoc

 

You're making good progress, & those runner blocks for the deck are excellent, angled for the lead angle. On the things you're not  sure about, hopefully some comments below might help. But they are just my opinions, & it is a model rather than a real boat - don't feel obliged to do the same thing as you'd do on a yacht.

 

1. On the top of the coaming isn't practical, too many things would get caught around them & also injury risk. My suggestion is the outside of the coaming, but they shouldn't need mounting blocks. 

 

2. I don't think that's ok, it would foul for sure - sheets should lead fully inside the shrouds or fully outside. Outer jibs are always going to be set more loosely than inner ones, & the sheeting line would likely go outside the shrouds.

 

3. Blocks on the clew of any headsails is a risk on a real yacht - even a 10mm diameter sheet can hurt a lot if the wind is up & the sail is flogging, a block would be dangerous. I think that a 2:1 system that has to tack around the forestay would be trouble in general. But if you still want to proceed (reality with modelling being your own decision of course), you can mount the end wherever you want....what about making the sheet block a becket block & tie it off there?

 

4. If you prefer not to have winches, then a separate tackle is one easy way to get sufficient sheet tension. I can't speak generally about boats in general, but I have used one system where you have a separate block & tackle somewhere handy & after tacking someone gets it out & puts one end of the tackle on the sail & the other end somewhere close to the cleat & hauls on the tackle. Then removes the slack from the jib sheet & puts the tackle away again. A handy-billy is what we call it. So if you follow this approach the sheet would just be a single line going to the cleat. 

 

Hope it helps, if it's not clear let me know. 

[michael mott]

Hi Vaddoc,

Mark makes some good points.

A couple of observations I noticed that you have a fairly large bagginess diagonally across the mainsail, to correct this you need to either raise the gaff at the mast which will also entail raising the peak of the gaff as well, or you need to pull down on the boom at the mast.

I am wondering why you have laced the foot of the main sail as it restricts the airfoil shape near the bottom, I have preferred to have my mainsail on my sailboat loose footed and it allows for a nice shape.

I agree with Mark regarding blocks on the clews this is not a good practice and also creates a catch when coming about as the block has to pass over the forestay of the sail below it especially with the two upper jibs. When changing tacks you want those sheets to flow as smoothly as possible across from one side to the other. It is better to lead the sheet through a fairlead of some sort even the sheaves that you have made and then lead them to a winch to be adjusted and cleated putting multiple purchases on the sheets will cause no end of difficulties when under sail and changing tacks the sheets are often let off in a hurray and the sail whips around the mast as in the staysail and over the forestays of the next two.

 

In my opinion it would be better to use a shackle to attach the sheets to the jibs there is also a simple looping type fixing which does not use ant hardware at all.

 

Michael

[Mark Pearse]

Not to give too much input: but I agree with Michael. The foot of a mainsail is usually either laced or you have an adjustable outhaul, not both. If it's laced, you'd usually do a clew lashing. I also prefer a loose foot, for the adjustment possibilities it gives.

[vaddoc]

18 hours ago, michael mott said:

I have preferred to have my mainsail on my sailboat loose footed and it allows for a nice shape.

 

17 hours ago, Mark Pearse said:

I also prefer a loose foot

Dear both

 

I am really very grateful for your help. Now, I need some time to digest your advice and explanations. 

One way or another we ll get this boat rigged!

[Moab]

Vaddoc; a beautiful boat and sails to match! You probably mentioned this somewhere but what material is used for the sails...Moab

[vaddoc]

1 hour ago, Moab said:

what material is used for the sails.

Thanks Moab! Due to the large scale, it is easy to find a fabric that looks ok-ish. This one is curtain liner, off white, £8 per square meter.

[vaddoc]

I think it is time for another post. Michael and Mark, again many thanks for your comments. 

 

I ve spent some time thinking about things, searching the net and reading. When I started building this boat, I wanted to make it as complex as I could, so I could learn. But it is still a small 7 m boat so space is very limited.

 

Regarding the main sail, I did not make it very well thus the sag. Lifting the gaff does not correct it, it is not square enough. Now, the lacing, this is a misunderstanding from my side. I was not aware that it is kind of either or, outhaul or laced. I am now committed because the sail is full of holes and the boom full of hardware. I ll just pretend that the boat was built to allow the captain to use both ways and that the mainsail has had so much use that has stretched and needs changing. The sails will be furled either way. 

 

Regarding the rest

 

1. Cleats will be moved to the outside of the coaming, with one cleat added to the side of the cabin

2. The outer jib sheet will course on the outside of the shrouds. Indeed this sail is set very loose so the sheet will not rub on anything.

3. Mark you are very right, Tom Cunliffe I thinks calls blocks on clews "widow makers". Still, looking on photos, many large sail boats use them. In all honesty however, I think for this size boat a simple sheet with no blocks at all should be enough. 

4. On the forestay (inner jib) I will reduce the power of the blocks, a 1:1 system should be enough

 

I played around on the boat, trying to arrange the eyes and sheets so that they don't rub. I think it will work but at the stern, everything will be very camped, mainly due to the highfield levers that take on a lot of space and need to move without catching.

 

I tried to tape things and have a complete rigging before I do anything irreversible but it is impossible as strong tape will lift the varnish and low tuck tape cannot hold thing firmly. So I will need to drill and install a few things. I think I will start with the eyes for the sheets of the 3 foresails and also I ll install the cleats.

 

In summary, could I ask for your advice on the following:

 

1. Is it ok if the flying jib (the middle jib) is sheeted straight without any blocks/purchases?

2. When the sheets reach the deck, do they need to go through a block/sheave or is a simple brass ring/tube like bellow adequate?

 

Regards

Vaddoc

 

 

[michael mott]

Hi Vaddoc I would lead the sheets through turning blocks at the deck. A ring would cause a lot of friction and make it hard for the crew to "sheet in" the sail. Even with a block a winch is often needed to make that last bit of adjustment.

 

Michael