Deben 5-tonner by vaddoc - FINISHED - Scale 1:10 - a Whisstock yard design

[vaddoc]

Would alignment pins before/during assembly have prevented that problem? Looks good now!

 I do use 3 mm dowels to maintain alignment druxey, the problem was that the paper pattern was glued to the wood badly so the parts came out wrong. When gluing large paper patterns (these ones were 40 cm long) one needs to be very careful and to check for alignment before cutting the wood.

Yes, now it is fine!

[Omega1234]

HI Vaddoc

 

Did I hear you right....40 cms?????  Ye Gads, how long is the boat overall????

 

She must be one big ship!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

HI Vaddoc

 

Did I hear you right....40 cms?????  Ye Gads, how long is the boat overall????

 

She must be one big ship!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

 

Just imagine Patrick…I ve been applying PVA glue with a 1" paint brush...    

[cog]

The problem with building big models, is the same as making big drawings: Your errors increase in size. Take care you use the right paper for your patterns, some paper is prone to deform when a solvent is applied, or stretch, especially those long slender forms ... So what seemed right when you glued the pattern may turn out wrong ...

[vaddoc]

This indeed has been my experience Carl

 

The sheets for the wood keel are cut and this time I did most of the sanding before gluing them. I also attached a paper pattern to the sloping side and marked the rebate line. There will be much more sanding however after the ribs are in place and the garboard plank test fitted. 

 

 

I glued the bottom two sheets as the upper one needs still a lot of work to cut the notches for the ribs. The wood keel needs to be dead flat so everything is clamped on a flat surface.

 

 

Overall I am reasonably happy with my progress. There is beauty in the design but needs some more time to start showing!

[druxey]

Nice lapstrake model you have there, Vaddoc! What is she?

[vaddoc]

That's my previous scratch-built model Druxey, poor thing is still waiting to be added to the gallery! Search for "24' exploration gaff-rigged ketch" to find the complete log.

 

[druxey]

Thanks, Vaddoc!

[vaddoc]

Dear all

I scraped a few minutes here and there and I achieved some modest progress.

 

To maintain the alignment of the temporary frames, there is a 3 mm hole which has been drilled with reasonable accuracy, a vertical midline which again is accurate and the baseline which is very important as it sets the hight. I realised however that the heights were all over the place. I made a simple jig using the 3 mm hole as guide and added 2 mm to the height by gluing additional pieces of wood. Now all frames have identical heights with great accuracy.

 

 

I finished all temporary frames and sanded in the bevels.  I temporarily erected the frames as I am very concerned that either my lofting and CAD design is wrong or that the tolerances in translating these to cut wood will be way too big. It will be a big boat, no doubt about this!

 

 

 

I also modified some spirit levels to assist in erecting the frames

 

 

Now, you might have noticed that there is a frame missing. I looked high and low but the No 6 frame has disappeared. I must find it though because making it again needs a ton of work.

 

I also loosely fitted a strip to check the bevels. Towards the stern and bow the strip gets quite a twist which is worrying, I have no idea whether this is normal.

Also, No 7 frame seems to be way off. I checked though and it is cut accurately. The rest of the frames look ok, maybe the inaccuracy of the very loose fitting is the cause. Time will tell.

 

[cog]

It's a bit hard to imagine such a big frame could vanish ... Did you put a strip at both sides ... maybe it will show some misalignment on frame 7 ...

[vaddoc]

I turned the place upside down and found the naughty frame, it was actually in the rubbish pile! I installed it and frame No 7 checked ok!

Next to cut the Transom and laminate the stem

[Omega1234]

Hey Vaddoc

 

Thankfully that pesky frame has turned up!  It's amazing how these things can seemingly vanish into thin air...it's a constant pain for us modellers.

 

Having said that, that's certainly a big boy that you're building!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[druxey]

That was a rather large item to go missing, Vaddoc. I've had one or two instances where something was hiding in plain sight....

[vaddoc]

A small milestone reached today, time for another update. Progress has been very slow and with a stork flying again around my house, it is bound to get even slower!

 

It is important for the temporary frames to be firmly fixed in place as there will be a lot of pressure applied with all the battens, ribs etc. The best way probably would be to epoxy everything down. I used a flat piece of MDF and glued the paper pattern, cutting windows to expose the mdf so that PVA and epoxy could stick. It took a while but worked ok.

 

 

Then I installed the frames, some needing a bit of sanding as the fit was very tight. A dowel running through all frames make the whole thing very rigid. I used spirit levers I modified to make sure the frames are vertical. A couple came out a few degrees off but it will not really affect anything.

 

 

 

 

 

I attached a few strips and they seem to lie ok. However the planks will definitely need spilling which I thought I might do without. 

 

 

 

I attached the 3x3 mm pear strips I intend to use as battens. The stern and transom are missing but the hull seems very fair.

 

 

 

Towards the bow the battens changes direction but this I think is fine as this is the shape of the hull in the plans.

 

 

As I have the whole boat on CAD, I think it makes more sense to spill and define all planks, then cut patterns out of cardboard and test the fit. I hope this will work out with only minor adjustments needed. Then I could install the battens, then install the ribs and start planking, progressively removing battens and nailing ribs.

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

Brilliant! 'Tis great to see the hull finally taking shape in the building board. She's big, that's for sure.

 

However, enough of the boat. What's this about the stork flying over your house

Edited October 21, 2016 by Omega1234

[vaddoc]

Thanks Patrick! Yes, it's a girl!

[druxey]

Many happy years with your new daughter, Vaddoc. If it mirrors my experience, your model-making time will come to a shuddering halt at about her first birthday and won't pick up again until she's about ten.

 

Looks like good progress. You were a bit optimistic about not having to spile! It's really not that bad. I'm curious as to why you used multiple levels rather than a set square to set those bulkheads up,

[Omega1234]

Congrats!!!!

[vaddoc]

Thank you all! 

Yes, I suspect building will slow down a lot but I will try not to give up. Another alternative might be to get a monograph of a 2 mast schooner or a frigate (I really want to make a fully frame model one day)  and prepare the whole boat on CAD. By the time I am done, both girls (I have also an 1.5 year old) will be well grown up!

 

Regarding the spirit levers, I find these very versatile. I can leave them on and arrange the next frame, and just take a pick and know whether the previous one has shifted out of position. They are small and can fit anywhere. A set square could not be used as there are two thick strips of wood at either side at the base of the frames, plus a lot of epoxy everywhere. And for just a few plywood frames, making a jig seemed too much.

[vaddoc]

Dear all

I have some bad news, I realised I made a mistake. I was trying to test fit the wood keel and it would not line up with the frames. It took me quite a while to realise that 2 of the frames were glued 3.6 mm forward of their position. Considering the 1:10 scale, this would be 3.6 cm in the full size boat, maybe insignificant but there was no doubt in my mind, re do! I had however included in the templates a back up base line so I can reuse the frames. 

I dismantled everything and cut the frames close to the new baseline. I made a new jig to line up al baselines and mark a new hole to pass a dowel through. I also had to sand off all the epoxy drippings. Lots of work to be done until the frames are again erected.

 

 

I took a brake from the frames to laminate the stem. It is going to be massive and the jig equally huge. I used scrap pine wood and mdf, my tools reached their limit and from all the power sanding there was a proper mist in the garage. My 3M mask is brilliant though, I was perfectly safe breathing through the filters! With the door open and the air filter full on, the air cleared quickly.

 

 

I cut the beech strips to length and bent them to shape. Beech is a lovely wood for bending, just wetting the wood makes it very pliable. I thought of using my electric radiator as a jig and it worked brilliantly.

 

 

 

 

 

After that, I laminated the stem. It needed a massive amount of epoxy thickened with talk powder but so far it looks good but really needs to cure overnight.

 

 

 

[vaddoc]

How's this for a stem!

 

[michael mott]

Vaddoc that stem looks like it glued up really well, with such fine veneers it will look almost like a piece of solid wood bent.

 

Michael

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

Nice lamination work, there.  It's a pity about the mistake with the frames, but, at least you've picked up the error and are well on your way to resolving it.

 

Well done on both counts.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

Thanks Michael and Patrick. Indeed, after sanding I am sure it will look like a solid chunk of timber.

 

I now work at a very slow pace. I started re-doing the frames which have now been cut to the back up base line. A new hole needs to be drilled across all frames so that the stabilising dowel can pass through and small pieces of wood to be glued so that all frames sit at the same height. 

 

 

 

Hopefully I ll be able to do a bit more work in the next couple of weeks

[vaddoc]

Dear all

In the last couple of weeks there has been some definite progress, somehow I found some time to spent on the boat. Very importantly, I think I have at last figured out how the sternpost and the transom work together and how they should be built.

 

First of all, I finished all the temporary frames. They are now cut to the back up base line, following the recent mistake. The dowel previously going through all the frames has been removed and all the spilled epoxy sanded off. A new 3 mm hole has been drilled through all the frames for the new dowel to pass through.

 

 

I also made the Transom. It is made as in the full scale boat, 4 wide slabs of timber glued together. The sternpost, the transom beams and the planking will bind everything together securely.

 

 

 

The stem is also progressing fine. I need to cut the rebate line and also a small piece of timber (as per the plans) to fill a gap between the stem and wood keel. The stem is huge!

 

 

 

I have also done a lot of work on the wood keel. It still needs some more work, to fully cut the rebate line, mark the positions of the floors and glue the metal keel on. Then, some more sanding will be needed to mate all the surfaces together. The whole keel assembly is absolutely massive.

 

 

 

 

 

 

For the last couple of weeks I have also been thinking about the planking. I read the tutorials that are available but I did not find them very helpful for this particular boat. I also thought about defining the planks on the CAD design. It did kind of worked but I would prefer to plank the old fashion way.

 

I also realised that the way I designed the sternpost was wrong. The following picture shows my sternpost which widens towards the base of the transom. The rebate line follows so it curves outwards.

 

However, the sternpost should be straight and meet the transom. The rebate line should also not curve outwards but just end at the junction of sternpost and transom.

 

 

When I test fitted the sternest and transom the whole think did not work at all. I decided to reshape the sternpost and slightly the rebate line.

 

 

 

 

Now I think it works much better. Of course, the aft end for a couple of the planks has now been moved inwards so my initial CAD lofting does not apply anymore but there is nothing I can do. Maybe it will not be too significant and with a bit of fairing it might be fine.

 

I also finished cutting the rebate line on the sternpost. The sternpost looks rough but actually it is not too bad.

 

 

 

 

I also cut the transom beams. The upper one has been glued, the others will follow.

 

 

I think I will need to deal with the planking very soon. although I will use 2 mm cardboard initially, I suspect I will then need several sheets of 2mm maple. Another pricey wood order will be needed, I suspect the admiral will not be very happy!

 

Regards

Vaddoc

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

You may suspect that your Admiral will not be happy....but, at least you're not womanising and boozing (I hope, anyway)! Besides, there's no doubting that you're doing a great job pulling your ship together and sometimes you just have to spend a few bucks!

 

All in all, you're doing a great job on your ship.

 

I can't wait to see her all framed and planked. That'll be a proud moment, for sure.

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

Edited November 26, 2016 by Omega1234

[vaddoc]

Things slowed down a bit so I got an opportunity to work on the boat.

 

Thanks Patrick, still a lot to be done but I think planking is not that far away. 

 

All frames are erected, I am happy with the result.

 

 

The stem is almost ready, I finished the bevels on both sides. I used my new chisels and there is definitely a learning curve, the first side I tackled did not come out as nice, although the planking will cover everything and there is more than enough wood for the planks to sit on. The other side came out perfect.

 

 

 

 

In the plans there is apiece of timber joining the edge of the wood keel with the keel. It seemed easier to laminate a piece using leftover beech strips from the stem lamination. I used the stem as template

 

 

 

As there was some leftover epoxy, I also glued the transom to the sternpost

 

 

Next, after epoxy has cured, I ll fit the wood keel, sternpost and transom, stem and stem deadwood on the frames and epoxy everything together. Then the sternpost knee will be added and holes will be drilled to insert dowels to reinforce everything.

Then it will be time for lots of head scratching dealing with the battens, planks and steam bent frames.

 

 

[Omega1234]

Great progress, for sure, Vaddoc!

 

Cheers

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

I just had to post this last photo, it is not technically a milestone but sure it feels like one.

 

The sternpost and transom are ready, the bevels are incomplete as they will be finished during planking. It still needs some fine tuning to fit onto the wood keel but test fitting shows it is very close.

 

The stem is ready as well as the wood keel, the rebate line is almost completely cut. Some more sanding is needed to get perfect fit with the metal keel, this will be done after planking as well.

 

in the next photo the wood keel is glued to the stem with very thickened laminating epoxy. All appear well centred, apart from frame No 5 which is off sideways by about 2 mm. No idea how this happened! The sternpost just rests on the frames for the photo, it is not glued yet. I still need to make the sternpost knee. I have included in the photo the metal keel (made of wood!) and the stem dead wood which has no work done to it yet.

 

Finally, after 9 months of work, I can show something that vaguely looks like a boat!

 

[vaddoc]

Some more progress, at last I can see the shape of the boat but somehow I feel something is wrong.

 

I finished the stem, the deadwood has been chiseled and sanded to shape and the rabbet completed. I must say it does not look awful! Of course, it needs a massive amount of fairing as after the paint goes on all imperfections will show.

 

 

 

I also epoxied the sternpost to the wood keel. I checked it a hundred times to make sure things were reasonably aligned and I think it went in ok. There is some more sanding needed and the transom bevels to be completed but it is almost there.

 

 

When the transom knee goes on, it will definitely count as a milestone. The whole thing is so big, my old iPhone cannot cope.

 

 

Despite the frame No 5 looking a bit off, test fitting a couple of battens seemed ok. However, when I tried to define the sheer, I was surprised to see that it was much less curved than I intended. Also, on some frames it was off by 2-3 mm. Maybe it is a trick of the eye, we ll see.

 

 

 

 

 

I am not sure how to proceed from now on. I intended to fix battens with screws, then put the ribs in place securing them to the battens and then plank progressively removing battens. This is not going to work though.

 

I think I should at this point define the shape of the planks. I will use 2 mm greyboard, maybe it will work ok. I have never done any planking and it looks a rather big job. I tried to roughly divide the hull in three sections but it did the whole job even more intimidating. I must stop being lazy and read a few tutorials more carefully, these certainly are uncharted waters for me.