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Deben 5-tonner by vaddoc - FINISHED - Scale 1:10 - a Whisstock yard design


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Hi Vaddoc,

 

your boat is looking very nice.

 

I'm really new to this hobby, & one part of me is wary about giving advice when I'm not experienced, but it was from a friend that knows about boats & was useful for me at the same stage you are at - he said that if you can see the hull the right way up (i.e.: not upside down), & you can better judge how well the battens are lined off (assuming the battens are the future planking lines). It helped me; so I suppose that we are better at seeing a nice planking setout than we realise, we've all looked at a lot of photos & something must have sunk in.

 

Mark

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Dear all

Thank you for your comments and your support!

 

Druxey, I read Antscherl's tutorial and I must say it was really helpful, more so than any other I have read.

 

Patrick, when I saw how large the boat actually is I thought immediately of an RC version. I spend some time thinking how I would do it and I was tempted to go for a cold moulded epoxied 3 layer hull. This will be for later though, I need to build my experience and also I do not have the time (or money) to get into RC technology right now. 

 

Mark, I totally agree, in my previous model the lines looked different and much easier to interpret when I turned it the right way up. This is a big girl though and the planking might need to be done upside down. The initial plan was to install temporary battens, then the frames and then turn the right way up and start planking. I still am not sure how I ll do it.

 

I managed to do some more work on the boat and the milestone is now official, the keel assembly is done! I intended to laminate the sternpost knee but I had solid pieces of laminated timber from the previous failed attempt at the keel so I used these. It came out very nice! The whole thing is very rigid, I intended to drill and add some dowels to strengthen the epoxied joints but I think it will be fine.

 

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I have not secured the keel to the temp frames but it is reasonably well wedged so I started lining out the planks. There should be 16 planks but I decided to increase the number and go for 22. This way it will be easier to fit the planks to the curved sections of the frames and maybe I will be able to use some of the expensive wood strips I already have. 

 

The battens I have are pear 3x3 mm and unfortunately are too rigid for the purpose. I have some 1mm walnut dowels and they proved very useful to determine the curvature of the planks.

 

I first defined the sheer in both sides which was a bit off the CAD markings but appear to run fair. I then divided all the frames that run from the keel to the sheer to 22 segments. I then run a batten along the 11 plank markings (middle of hull) and defined the respective crossings at the rest of the frames, the transom and the stem. I did the same for the plank no 6.

 

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The most difficult planks are the planks 1-6 with plank 1 of course being the garboard plank. I fitted the battens making sure they run fair and marked the crossing points. I think it looks ok.

 

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The planks open up at the sternpost and transom but so far it looks ok.

 

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One think that is missing is fairing. I checked and the frames seem reasonably faired (at least most of the time!). But since I will be installing steam bend frames, even if a frame is off at a plank I think I will be able to make adjustments by sanding or adding material.

 

I will continue with the battens until I mark all planks and then I will cut all the plank patterns out of greybeard.

 

 

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Get your lining out done and view the model the right way up from all angles as well as upside down. Plank with the model inverted unless you are a bear for punishment!

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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Thanks Druxey, indeed turning the boat the right way up gives a much better idea how fair the lines run.

 

I finished outlining the shape of the planks, it was surprisingly straightforward and after a while I was able to eyeball the fairness of the curves much easier. I only had to change a few of the original markings.

 

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However, transferring this markings to paper proved an extremely difficult job. I found out that using 300 gsm card is the better option. I struggled for days and I think I have one side of one of the garboard planks done.

 

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I tried to define the other edge but the result was so wrong I gave up for today! Planking is definitely not easy!

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You'll latch on to it after a while, then wonder what all the fuss was about! With the bulkheads so far apart, very stiff card will work best for you.

Be sure to sign up for an epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series  http://trafalgar.tv

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Dear all

Things seem to progress well

Druxey thanks for the advice, I laminated the card I have and indeed it works much better as it stiffened up a lot.

 

I finally defined the garboard plank and it fits like a glove on the other side. I decided to redo all the markings on the other side and to go for 17 planks instead of 22, and reshape the garboard plank to allow the planks to curve more and spread better at the bow. I grossly kept the shape of the gb blank and divided two of the widest frames to 16 planks and marked all the other frames by eyeballing the shape of the planks. It did not come out perfect but came out ok.

I also reshaped slightly the sheer, after I placed the boat the right way up it was clearly not fair.

 

 

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There is still a problem with the stem, the bottom half seems to be too wide. I ll look into this and then cut all the planks out of greyboard.

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  • 4 months later...

Dear all

Despite my best intentions I did go into hibernation. And for a good reason: I have been blessed with a second daughter and moved into a new house. 

So now I have a new baby to play with and a new garage to turn into a shipyard. Everything needs to be unpacked, stuff to find their place, lighting and hopefully some dust management system to be installed etc. I have also started making a new massive work bench in addition to my old one. 

Progress is bound to be very slow but I will try and keep this log alive. Hopefully, I will be able soon to post some images of the new work space.

Regards

Vaddoc

 

 

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Congratulations to you and your wife with the new daughter. A new family member, and moving ... why make it easy on yourself! We'll be waiting for the moment you'll be ready. Hope you can get some sleep ;)

Carl

"Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson
Search and you might find a log ...

 

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  • 4 weeks later...

Dear all

It has been almost 6 months since my last post showing some progress and this week I was able at last to do some work on the boat. 

 

I started converting the garage to a workshop, I built a new bench and upgraded the lights (still not enough though). There are still things missing but overall it is shaping up.

 

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The first thing I did was to better sit the keel to the temporary frames as there were previously gaps of several mm. Also, I fixed everything in place with screws and pins, not too securely but when the first planks go in, the structure will be very solid.

 

Next, it was time to tackle again the garboard plank. I started again from scratch. I must admit that none of the available tutorials seems to fully work on this  boat. The next photos show a straight strip secured to the frames.

 

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The solution was to add small pieces of stiff cardboard continuously, until the right shape was reached.

 

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After the upper edge was defined, I used a 1 mm walnut dowel to define the lower edge, so that eyeballing the curve seemed fair, making sure it does nor extend too high up the stem. I then used a compass to transfer the distances from predetermined points at the upper edge. I used a 3x3mm strip as batten to draw the lower edge, then transfer the lines to the maple sheet.

 

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I cut the plank and test fitted it onto the boat. Happily, it went on just fine! 

 

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I do not have enough experience but I think the shape is not far off what it should be. Also, at last I now have a reproducible process I can follow for the rest of the planks. I now need to prepare the other garboard plank, fix both in place, arrange the remaining planks in both sides and complete the planking.

 

 

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Hi Vaddoc

 

I also did my first plank as the garboard plank, I hadn't done any planing at all before that. At the time I asked a shipwright about the shaping of a garboard plank, & he said that in a full keel boat the maximum width of the plank would usually be used at the stern end, then tapered to the bow, the amount of taper depending on the hull shape. That seems to be what you have done. 

 

best of luck with the rest

 

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Thank you John and Patrick, indeed it felt nice to be working again, model building brings out the child in me!

Dear Mark, your post was very encouraging, despite months of thinking, googling, going through the forum and reading tutorials, my planking still is 90% guessing and experimenting and 10 % evidence based.

 

Having finished both GB planks, I compared them and there was a significant difference in width! I could not really understand how this happened, still I ended up redoing both planks again. They are now almost equal width and they seem to be fitting better. 

 

The GB planks need to bent, not to a huge degree but as the planks are maple 2 mm I think heat will be needed. I would like to steam bend these but it is difficult to set up a steaming device so probably it will be dry heat with a hair dryer

 

Having finished the GB planks, I continued with the rest of the planking. This is how I am doing this:

 

I decided to use 14 planks plus the garboard, so 15 planks altogether. I marked the edges of the GB planks on the frames, and used the template fan to divide 3 of the frames, one in the middle and in either ends of the hull. I then used a 1 mm dowel to divide the hull into 2 zones, eyeballing the curve so that it looked fair from all angles. I made sure it made contact with the sternpost and stem in a way that enough space is left for the rest of the planks in either direction, without getting cramped. I then replaced the dowel with black fishing line and continued dividing the zones in halves, eyeballing the curve to be reasonably fair.

 

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I finished the upper four strakes but this is a difficult job, I have a feeling that this eyeballing thing is a skill the develops over time into a sixth sense. Quite a few times the curve looked wrong but when I re-did it the batten went on the same place.  Other times just a couple of mm had a huge impact on how the curve felt.

 

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Apologies for the quality of the photos, it is not easy to fit the boat in the picture!

 

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The outlining of the planks is finished! It looks pretty close, certainly not perfect. I think it will need a lot but not unreasonable spilling and I wonder if I have enough (expensive!) maple sheets, considering that it took me 3 tries to cut the gb planks to shape. The black fishing line is unfortunately too thick and strong so it distorts the lines but they will be faired again when cut. 

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I am sure it can be done better but I think I ll leave it as is, after all the shape of my hull is far from perfect. Some times better is the enemy of good.

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A new lesson learned today. The garboard planks need to fit perfectly buy also need to be symmetrical!

This is not so easy when the wooden keel and rabet are not truly completely symmetrical. I took me 5 tries to get the gb planks shaped to be just acceptable. That was a lot of expensive wasted wood! At least maple is much easier to sand than pear or cherry wood.

 

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Next, the planks will need to be secured in place. I am thinking of using a tiny amount of epoxy (as the slots for the ribs should not be filled) and tree nails with PVA glue. Since the frames are temporary and will be removed, I will use also 1 mm micro screws at the frames. The planks will need to be steam bend somehow, not sure how this will be done. I suspect the solution lies in the admiral's kitchen utensils.

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Dear all

Slowly the boat is progressing. Both GB planks seem to fit reasonably well. Steam bending in the kitchen worked just fine, both planks very easily took and maintained their bend with minimal effort and no mess in the kitchen at al

 

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I glued the port GB plank with PVA glue, I wonted to avoid the messy epoxy. I will also put tree nails where the plank rests against the keel, sternpost and stem and 1 mm screws at the temporary frames.

 

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I will need a lot of tree nails, as later they will be used to secure the steam bend frames to the planks. My method for mass producing tree nails works fine. I have a selection of needles but I think i ll use 0.8 mm tree nails at the keel and 0.9 mm for the frames.

 

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Tomorrow I will glue the other GB plank and tree nail and screw everything together, The hull will be much stronger then.

 

Regards

Vaddoc

 

 

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Thanks John!

Yes, I used a rolled plastic bag and masking tape. It looks ugly but worked really well.

 

Vaddoc

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  • 2 weeks later...

Dear all

In the last 10 days I made more progress than I could hope for. Still, planking at this scale is a difficult job and each plank is as painful as having a tooth out!

 

I fitted both garboard planks, I think they came out fine. The micro screws are easy to use and have huge holding strength. The tree nails are easy to insert. The gaps are left so that the steam bend frames can slide in the slots at the keel. Tree nails will be inserted later.

 

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I then started fitting the next plank on the port side. Lots of wasted timber, many strips of cardboard in funny shapes lying everywhere. I am quite happy with the outcome though!

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Next I started work on the other side. Close enough but not quite. Another wasted maple strip!

 

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I do have a problem though.

 

When I designed the hull in 3D the lines seemed to show that the bow became hollow near the keel. I have cut the frames like this but the planks now seem to want to follow their natural curve there. I am thinking I will just put some sims in these areas at frame 2 and possibly frame 1 for the first 3 planks or so. 

 

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