Deben 5-tonner by vaddoc - FINISHED - Scale 1:10 - a Whisstock yard design

[vaddoc]

Thank you all, I really need the support in my fight against these stubborn planks.

I finally got the second plank right. It took countless tries and a forest of wasted wood.

 

 

Still, I finally might have standardised a process. Instead of making a cardboard template for the whole of the plank, it works better if divided in sections which then are glued together while on the boat so the plank is formed. I got the third plank right on the first attempt.

 

 

Just using hot tab water is enough to make the wood very pliable.

 

As the planking is progressing, it gets more difficult as the twist at the stern becomes more pronounced. Only when I reach the transom will it get easier. I realise I do one plank a week, so at this pace I need another 30 weeks to finish the planking!

 

So far I could not get the planks to fit snug to each other along all their length, this really would need skills I do not have. I pretend the gaps are left on purpose for the caulking...

 

Best wishes to all

Vaddoc

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

After reading about your problems with the planking, your positive attitude has reminded me of the school motto of the local State School up the road from where I lived as a kid: 'Perservere and Advance'. 

 

Keep at it. No doubt you're well on your way now to reaping the rewards of your hard work. 

 

Well done. 

 

Cheers. 

 

Patrick

[druxey]

Sometimes 'Frankenpatterns' work very well! Looks like you are getting the rhythm of it now.

[vaddoc]

Thank you all for the likes and encouragement

 

Patrick, I think this moto should be added to the forum logo at the upper left corner of the page!

Druxey, that's a good word indeed! To be used when there is far more wood dust than elegance.

 

I looked into buying a height gauge but they are too expensive. I needed it to transfer the height of the lower edge of the planks on the frames (corresponding to the width of the plank) from the marked side to the other. I made a Franken-gauge that worked pretty well.

 

I then made the pattern for the third plank on the starboard side and cut the plank. I used the compass to outline the shape of the upper edge. Then transferred the shape onto the maple sheet, having marked the position of the frames. I then measured and transferred the width of the plank at the frames to the sheet. Then, I used a batten to draw the lower edge of the plank so that it would be a fair curve. I installed the plank and sanded the high spots so that the plank would sit as close to the previous plank as possible. Success with the first try again!

 

The spilling is quite significant but entirely possible in real life. It would mean huge wastage though!

3 more planks each side to go, with progressively worse twist at the stern and then I ll be at the transom. Looking at the garboard plank, I think that if the shape was different, going a bit higher at the bow and stern and left narrow at the middle, the rest of the planks would need much less spilling. I guess those practicums were right!

 

 

[Jim Lad]

It sounds like you're starting to get into the swing of the planking now, Vaddoc.  As the twist on the planks gets progressively more severe, you may need a bit more aggressive steaming to make the wood compliant.

 

John

[vaddoc]

On 7/2/2017 at 10:44 PM, Jim Lad said:

It sounds like you're starting to get into the swing of the planking now, Vaddoc.  As the twist on the planks gets progressively more severe, you may need a bit more aggressive steaming to make the wood compliant.

 

John

Thanks John, indeed I think I ve cracked this. The twist is causing lots of problems when dry fitting the plank during the actual making. 2 more to go each side though and then it will get much easier as I ll be at the transom.

[vaddoc]

Actually there are 3 progressively more difficult planks left each side before things get easier. The boat is so large that each 100 cm maple sheet gives about 3 planks only! The ruler in the next photo is 50 cm long.

 

As the twist gets worse, it is more difficult to define the shape as even the cardboard resists going into place. It took a few tries to get the template right. It had to be done in 4 segments which are glued together, now waiting for the glue to set.

 

I have a suspicion though that my planking is actually wrong. This is due to the garboard plank that i feel does not have the right shape. It should go a bit further up in the stern and bow and be thinner in the middle. This way, the rest of the planks would need less spilling. Also, I now realise that the rebate line needs to be cut with extreme care and also that the planks at this scale need to be prepared very carefully as well. I was very sloppy and now all defects appear huge! Lessons learned (the hard way).

 

Anyway, despite all these, it is starting to look like a boat!

 

View from the bow

View from the stern

[druxey]

You are doing very well for your first planking job: you can't expect perfection instantly! Every model is a learning experience.

[vaddoc]

Planking continues! 

Thanks Druxey, indeed this boat was intended to be a learning tool as well as a model. I have certainly learned a lot so far! This scale I believe is the most difficult to work at. The planks now are 60 to 70 cm long and all imperfections appear huge! Also, wood needs to be chosen carefully to avoid twisted grain.

 

I have standardised a way of producing planks and I am learning from my mistakes. Still, it is a lengthy and difficult process to produce each plank although both the twist and the spilling are now getting easier.

 

Some photos of the progress so far. When the steamed ribs are in place the planks will hopefully align. Then the screws will go, the temp frames will be removed and the screw holes plugged with tree nails. Then filler will go in the gaps between the planks from both sides and the hull will be sanded. I hope this will produce a reasonably smooth hull.

 

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

I think you may be underestimating just how well you're doing on this boat. From what I can see, you're definitely doing a fine job. The hull looks symmetrical, the temp frames look good, as does the run of the planks.  Nice!  

 

A quick question though...are you intending to put RC into the boat so that you can sail her?  

 

Cheers. 

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

Thanks Patrick! (Of course I did choose the best angles to take photos)

Turning it RC is a temptation! But I would need to invest time to learn about RC as I know nothing about it and money and both are in very short supply right now.

Maybe the next (bigger) one!

[Jim Lad]

Looking good, mate!  Look critically at what you do, but don't sell yourself short! 

 

John

[vaddoc]

Thanks Jon! Oh yes, it is coming along and for first attempt it is probably ok. There are significant issues but all part of the learning curve.

I guess that now with babies and all I am rushing things and often I am not happy with the outcome since I know I probably could have done it better. But I must compromise: It has taken me one and a half years to get this far! This is going to be a long journey.

 

But sometimes, as I see the hull emerge plank by plank, I feel like a child again! 

[vaddoc]

Planking slowly continues but now much less spilling is needed and the twist is much less. 

The planks are becoming though very long. These are two A4 mats, this plank (still unfinished) 2/3 of the way towards the sheer is around 70 cm long!

 

 

 

The hull is slowly starting to show its curves and although very rough yet, it already has the inherent elegance of all wooden boats. As I gain experience the gaps between the planks are getting smaller. The starboard plank is temporarily held in place with clips.

 

 

 

 

 

A problem which I need to figure out is how to get the boat off the MDF base so I can turn it around and install the ribs. The frames are 3 mm made of two sheets plywood 1.5 mm laminated together with epoxy. They are super strong. These are epoxied to wood strips which in turn are glued to the MDF with PVA glue. The whole thing is very solid. After I install the sheer plank, there will be very little space to put any tools in there. 

Maybe I should soak the whole MDF plank in water overnight up to the level of the joint with the frames, this should dissolve the PVA glue. Or mess everything up!

 

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc

 

Very nice, especially now that the elegance of the hull is starting to shine through.  

 

That's an interesting problem that you have about releasing the hull from the base board.  I've little doubt that you'll think of a way to do it with minimal damage. Here's hoping!

 

All the best.

 

Patrick

 

 

[vaddoc]

Thanks Patrick. actually the base problem was easily solved. I attacked the epoxied areas with the Dremel and a milling bit. Ate it all up in seconds.

Still, this does not guarantee the boat will lift!

[Mark Pearse]

Hi Vaddoc

 

your question about removing the model from the base is tricky but you have more room to do something now than later. One idea is to drill now a series of holes through each mould, at the line where you will cut later. The small piece between adjacent holes will be cuttable with in a series of short cuts, & maybe even with a knife.

 

best of luck, Mark

[michael mott]

Hi Vaddoc the hull is looking very good.  an old fashioned hand saw would be my choice to removing the frames from the base start at the bow work toward the stern.

 

Michael

[cog]

With reference to Michael's post: If you want to be more careful ... a Japanese Dozuki, fine teethed saw could solve the problem

[vaddoc]

Mark, Michael and Carl, thank you very much for your comments. Actually brute force is the answer. The wood-MDF joint is very weak so a good wack with a 1 inch chisel shaves off a thin layer of MDF and sends the wood pieces that hold the frames in place flying off. This can be done easily after all the planks are in place.

 

I have had very little time but I managed to install another plank and have ready the card templates for a couple more. I am now past the turn of the bilge and the curves are more apparent, it looks really nice but I cannot capture it well on photos due to the size and the limitations of my phone camera.

 

 

 

 

 

The next two planks will be again difficult. Progressively spilling got less and less and now the planks are almost straight. Up to now, one edge was concave and had to be cut with the knife, with extreme care and then sanded etc. The other convex edge though could be prepared in seconds with the disk sander. Now both edges need to be cut with the knife and this increases the chances of ruining the piece.

 

Another problem is that the planks are now very long, this is a 50 cm ruler. Maple is a lovely wood for planks, better than cherry pear or walnut, but the sheets I got have (or developed in storage) some warp which makes things even harder.

 

 

In a few days our holidays start, so there will be no progress for the next 4 weeks. I ll try to use this time to read some of the books I have been buying only to decorate my modelling shelves. The next boat is likely to be a scratch built fully framed one and this will need serious preparation.

 

 

[Jim Lad]

It's really good to see the shape of the hull developing, mate!  Have fun on your holiday.

 

John

[druxey]

Enjoy your vacation. Just back from mine and it's nice to see your progress.

[vaddoc]

Dear all

Holidays are over and planking continues at a very slow pace. Planks are now 80 cm long!

When all the ribs are installed, I hope they will pull and align all the planks. I decided to use maple for the ribs instead of beech as it probably is a bit harder and generally a more pleasant wood to work with.

After filling all the gaps and sanding, the hull should be reasonably smooth.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Omega1234]

Hey Vaddoc  

 

Welcome back from your holidays.  Your hull's looking really good...and..dare I say, absolutely huge!!!!

 

Well done.

 

Cheers  

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

I think I hit a milestone. The starboard sheer plank has gone on! It is drying in place waiting for the screws and tree nails to go in.

It will be a bit of a challenge to make the port sheer plank exactly identical and I expect a bit of head scratching will be needed.

 

Patrick you are right, it is a big hull! When the false keel goes on, it will be even bigger! 

 

I think in my lofting I should have made the sheer a bit more curved, especially at the bow. However I have not deviated a lot from the original lines at the sheer.

 

 

 

 

I have the template for the other sheer plank ready. When planking is completed I will take the boat off its base and start installing the ribs, I wonder if they will actually hold the shape of the boat. I may use temporary screws for the ribs but they will be finally fastened with tree nails, probably I will need close to 4000 just for the hull!

 

This is a very complex build and a lot of thinking and planning ahead is needed. Working in such large scale is great fun but even slight inaccuracies are very much visible and a perfect plank to plank contact along the entire length is very difficult to achieve. The sheer plank is more than 80 cm long!

 

Hopefully I ll finish planking this weekend.

Edited October 8, 2017 by vaddoc

[vaddoc]

Dear all

Planking is finished!

 

 

 

 

 

 

Planking has been huge fun and less difficult than I expected. It took a while though, I started planking Dec 7 2016 so 30 planks in total took me 10 months and 7 days! I learned a lot and having spent 10 months spilling planks I fill quite comfortable with the process. 

Of course, if there is a prize for rough hulls I probably should get it but I am optimistic it will get better.

 

Next step was to lift the boat from the MDF base. This was actually dead easy, just a few knocks with a large chisel did the job. 

 

 

The interior is very rough as I have sanded the bottom edge of all planks so that they could meet better, due to the curvature of the hull. I sanded much more than needed so there is now a big gap when looking from the inside. I wonder if this could be filled with filler. The notches for the ribs can also be seen in the next photo.

 

 

Next I experimented with the ribs. I will use either beech or maple but Beech is a stronger stiffer wood. It is supposed to respond superbly to heat and indeed, after a few seconds in very hot water it bent easily and followed the contour of the hull.

 

 

However bending the strip to shape and securing it in place will be difficult as there is no working space as the frames are close together and the hull deep

 

 

 

 

I thought that if I cut the excess of some of the frames there will be more space. The frames are though made from 6 mm plywood which is super strong. Some not so modelling tools had to be used at a risk of major injury to the model.

 

 

Wood dust got into every groove so a bit of improvisation with my cycle pump was needed to blow it away

 

 

I took two frames out and access is improved, I need to smooth the rough edges though. I intend to leave some frames to be able to turn the boat and also have an idea regarding the water line as the frames are set at a defined height.

 

 

A new page starts today! The amount of work left to be done though is enormous, this boat will take years to complete but then again there is no rush.

 

Regards

 

 

Edited October 14, 2017 by vaddoc

[druxey]

Take a bow for successfully completing your first planking job!

[Omega1234]

Hi Vaddoc. 

 

Congratulations on reaching this milestone!  

 

She’s looking brilliant. 

 

Cheers. 

 

Patrick

[vaddoc]

Thank you all, it really has been an exciting moment!

 

I gave it a go to install the ribs and surprisingly it was very easy. I soaked the beach strips in water, wrapped them three at a time in a wet towel and heated the whole thing in our old microwave which had been stored in the garage. There was a small learning curve but the strips took the bend very nicely. I got a few in but now the real problems begin:

 

1. I know where the bottom end of the ribs go (except the bow and stern where I will need to guess). I need now to figure out how to space the upper end along the sheer plank.

 

2. How should I secure the ribs to the planks? I will use tree nails for sure and in the end probably also put a bit of epoxy to the bottom end, hopefully they will hold well enough. Should I also glue the ribs to the plank? This will be a messy job I think.

 

There is really very little working space. I have the flexible Dremel drive but I might need the angle drill accessory 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

There should be no issue if you use white or yellow glue to attach the frames. Just mop up any glue squeeze-out with a wet brush before the glue sets up.