*Hans* Posted October 1, 2017 Share #391 Posted October 1, 2017 Nice work, Robin! mtaylor, EJ_L and Robin Lous 3 Quote Hans Owner of Kolderstok Models - 17th century Dutch ships. Please visit www.kolderstok.com for an overview of the model kits available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted October 1, 2017 Share #392 Posted October 1, 2017 Beautiful ram and ladder Glad you're back ! Robin Lous, EJ_L and mtaylor 3 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch To do : Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 1, 2017 Author Share #393 Posted October 1, 2017 Thanks guys. Good to be back. Robin mtaylor, EJ_L and Baker 3 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share #394 Posted October 2, 2017 (edited) To get back to why I made a simple 2 dimensional ram instead of a highly ornate 3 dimensional cast ram. The main reason I don't believe in cast rams on biremes is the weight of such rams. Biremes were very light ships, heavy rams will reduce the speed immensely. Additional reasons are the cost of such rams. Surely a very expensive gadget. Also...rams are hardly visible, because the point of the ram is below the waterline or skimming the waterline, so why bother? Last but not least...no archaeological find other than the trireme ram Messis showed (replicated on the Olympias) and the very basic Black Sea bireme ram. So, what about the images of rams on Greek vases? When we look at the vases there a couple of things to notice. One thing is...they're not scale drawings. Note how eyecatching items are blown up or stretched out. The crew...the steering oars and...the rams. These are artist impressions with exaggerated parts and details. But what about the decorations we see? Yes...I see them also, but that still doesn't mean the rams are cast bronze statues. I think some rams might have been painted, clad with additional sheet, or had hammered decorations, but fairly simple. The eyes we see on them are probably painted on the bow instead of on the ram...above the waterline for sure. One more issue...the size of the ram. I think many wrongly think the pine tar painted bow (like on my build) is part of the ram...it isn't. Clearly out of proportion, the ram is far too long, like the steering oars. The eye is the ship's eye low on the bow. Furthermore..a fairly good shape. The ram looks 2 dimensional. The ram here follows the shape of the vase, but even when straightened there is a waterline issue. Again...ram is oversized here also. Despite the decorations, the ram still looks 2 dimensional and has a good shape. This is the image many use to make a sculptured cast ram (the weight of such a thing?). Well okey, but another waterline issue. Good oar placement btw. Also note the second bireme with a plain ram and good placement of the eye. Imho Daniel Dusek did it right. Shape, size and placement make sense. Note how the black bow can be mistaken for being part of the ram...specially with a low placed ship's eye. This is probably the best image I've seen on a vase. Apart from the oversized helmsman and steering oars, very good proportions and layout. The only image where the waterline seems right. In the water instead of on top of the water. This shows how pointless it is to put a lot of effort in decorating the ram with eyes and what more. I don't say what I did is the right way to do it...it's what I think makes most sense...after some study and added common sense. It's something people will never agree about until we find at least half a dozen of bireme rams on the bottom of the sea. I thought about my construction of the ram and I think it's a plausible solution. Back to my bench to make some steering oars, Robin Edited October 2, 2017 by Robin Lous cog, BLACK VIKING, Nikiforos and 2 others 5 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted October 2, 2017 Share #395 Posted October 2, 2017 Robin Lous, Superb build, enjoyed the way you approached the ram, you showed tenacity and for every problem there is a solution. Kudos mtaylor, EJ_L, Robin Lous and 1 other 4 Quote John Allen Current builds HMS Victory-Mamoli On deck USS Tecumseh, CSS Hunley scratch build, Double hull Polynesian canoe (Holakea) scratch build Finished Waka Taua Maori War Canoe, Armed Launch-Panart, Diligence English Revenue Cutter-Marine Model Co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share #396 Posted October 2, 2017 Thanks John! The steering oars... And the bronze green... I think this is enough. I don't want it to be completely toxic green Again...it's just 3cm long. Next? Those darn blocks I guess. Robin Mirabell61, CDW, mtaylor and 3 others 6 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 4, 2017 Author Share #397 Posted October 4, 2017 At first some good news for people with a masochistic fetish for oars... The Anatomy of the ship book - The Athenian Trireme..will finally be released in December. Pre ordered my copy! And on the shipyard... These blocks... The "ancient version of a heart block shaped one eyed deadeye". Long story short (for those who missed it). I made them and shortly after...someone threw them away thinking they were grape pips. So I'm now making a new batch. Nothing like this is readily available, so I need to make them myself. Will keep me busy for the rest of the week, mainly because I don't have much shipyard time this week. About 30 minutes per block...meh! More...next week. Robin cog, CDW, EJ_L and 3 others 6 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 4, 2017 Share #398 Posted October 4, 2017 Try them in brass You sound a bit sheepish ... loosing your vocal cords ... ? you make up for that in blocks though. Looks good, required time sounds less, but when I think about the 30 odd tripple AA guns I have to make than 30 minutes is a walk in the park Cheers EJ_L 1 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donrobinson Posted October 5, 2017 Share #399 Posted October 5, 2017 I've had my book ordered since last year when I first heard of it. Looking forward to seeing it in my hands EJ_L and Robin Lous 2 Quote Completed: MS-AVS, Amati Trabaccolo, Dusek ship's boat, AL-Mayflower, Batelina - MarisStella, MarisStella-Trabakul Liburnian Novilara - MarisStella, 17th Century Battle Station, Ragusian Galley-MarisStella Current: Barque Stefano - MarisStella, On Hold: Amati Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 5, 2017 Author Share #400 Posted October 5, 2017 Yep...I remember that. It's been...and still is...a long wait. Hope it will be good. I'm still making up my mind about my next build. The Dusek trireme or the Kolderstok Duyfken. 170 oars or rigging I'm not ready for yet...tough choise, but this book might push me towards the trireme. To be decided. Robin cog and EJ_L 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share #401 Posted October 6, 2017 Finished making the new batch of blocks... ..so I can now start with the rigging. There's one more modification I like to do... The sun roof and battle curtains. The roof was used to protect the oarsmen from the sun. The curtains were lowered during battle and bad weather. Likely also used as a tent during the night when beached...supported by some top oars. Not read anything about this, but it makes perfect sense. Robin EJ_L, Nikiforos, CDW and 1 other 4 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted October 6, 2017 Share #402 Posted October 6, 2017 Where do you buy your Dusek kits, Robin? I've been looking at several different models through the Cornwall shop. Their prices are favorable with the pound - usd conversion right now. Shipping prices very reasonable, too. Robin Lous and EJ_L 2 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share #403 Posted October 6, 2017 I like to buy from his own website. He's a really nice guy to deal with. http://www.dusekshipkits.com/ Robin EJ_L and cog 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baker Posted October 6, 2017 Share #404 Posted October 6, 2017 Congratulations with the new blocks Keep the admiral far away this time The canvas roof and curtain will be special but if you add it, then you are likely to see less of the hull details i think CDW, Robin Lous, EJ_L and 1 other 4 Quote Regards, Patrick Finished : Soleil Royal Heller 1/100 Wasa Billing Boats Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch) Pelican / Golden Hind 1/45 scratch Current build : Mary Rose 1/50 scratch Gallery : Revell Bounty Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch To do : Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal Shore leave, non ship models build logs : ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72 Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72 Autoblinda AB40 1/72 122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72 10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e) Centurion Mk.1 conversion M29 Weasel 1/72 SAM6 1/72 T26 Finland T26 TN 1/72 Autoprotetto S37 1/72 Opel Blitz buses 1/72 Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72 Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72 Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 6, 2017 Author Share #405 Posted October 6, 2017 Thanks Patrick...and I agree about losing the inside view. So I plan to do them stowed to the railing. A nice example of a trireme without a top deck with the canvas cover... Triremes with a top deck (like the Olympias) only needed the curtains of course. Robin Nikiforos, CDW, BLACK VIKING and 2 others 5 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 6, 2017 Share #406 Posted October 6, 2017 Interesting way of closing up a curtained roof ... Did they have a dress maker aboard too Robin Lous and EJ_L 2 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
donrobinson Posted October 6, 2017 Share #407 Posted October 6, 2017 That looks cool, you should give it a try cog, Robin Lous and EJ_L 3 Quote Completed: MS-AVS, Amati Trabaccolo, Dusek ship's boat, AL-Mayflower, Batelina - MarisStella, MarisStella-Trabakul Liburnian Novilara - MarisStella, 17th Century Battle Station, Ragusian Galley-MarisStella Current: Barque Stefano - MarisStella, On Hold: Amati Pegasus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share #408 Posted October 9, 2017 (edited) My first small steps in the world of ship model rigging Made the blocks to fix the stays and attached them to the sides, bow and stern. I used the eyes of bronze coloured fishing hooks. I must now attach the same blocks to the stays themselves. I copy the rigging from the Greek olkas merchant ship reconstruction. Mentioned before. Note the 600 BC copper paperclips! More soon. Robin Edited October 9, 2017 by Robin Lous CDW, EJ_L, rafine and 7 others 10 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirabell61 Posted October 9, 2017 Share #409 Posted October 9, 2017 Very nice build Robin, your Greek Bireme looks wonderful.... Nils cog, Robin Lous and EJ_L 3 Quote Current builds -Lightship Elbe 1 Completed - Steamship Ergenstrasse ex Laker Corsicana 1918- scale 1:87 scratchbuild - "Zeesboot" heritage wooden fishing small craft around 1870, POB clinker scratch build scale 1:24 - Pilot Schooner # 5 ELBE ex Wanderbird, scale 1:50 scratchbuild - Mississippi Sterwheelsteamer built as christmapresent for grandson modified kit build - Chebec "Eagle of Algier" 1753--scale 1:48-POB-(scratchbuild) "SS Kaiser Wilhelm der Grosse" four stacker passenger liner of 1897, blue ribbond awarded, 1:144 (scratchbuild) "HMS Pegasus" , 16 gun sloop, Swan-Class 1776-1777 scale 1:64 from Amati plan -"Pamir" 4-mast barque, P-liner, 1:96 (scratchbuild) -"Gorch Fock 2" German Navy cadet training 3-mast barque, 1:95 (scratchbuild) "Heinrich Kayser" heritage Merchant Steamship, 1:96 (scratchbuild) original was my grandfathers ship -"Bohuslän" , heritage ,live Swedish museum passenger steamer (Billings kit), 1:50 "Lorbas", river tug, steam driven for RC, fictive design (scratchbuild), scale appr. 1:32 under restoration / restoration finished "Hjejlen" steam paddlewheeler, 1861, Billings Boats rare old kit, scale 1:50 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share #410 Posted October 9, 2017 Thanks Nils...and the likes. It's a "quick release system" to make it possible to lower and raise the mast easily. Mast was lowered for battle...or even left ashore to reduce weight. More soon, Robin Daniel Dusek, cog, CaptainSteve and 6 others 9 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zappto Posted October 9, 2017 Share #411 Posted October 9, 2017 I like your paintings, all reminds real ship! Robin Lous and CaptainSteve 2 Quote Current build: Mamoli - La gloire 1778 Finished builds: Mamoli - Friesland 1663 Mamoli - Lexington 1776 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
moreplovac Posted October 9, 2017 Share #412 Posted October 9, 2017 Hi Robin nice work on the ship. Those Greeks were really before their times by using copper paperclips :-) Is that color schema/colors you are using from the kit or you were doing research and improved the model by putting some colors on it? CaptainSteve and Robin Lous 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CDW Posted October 9, 2017 Share #413 Posted October 9, 2017 I think Robin is putting us on about this being his first wooden ship model. If it is his first, man, we are in for some good stuff if he continues to build wooden models. Just kidding with you Robin. I do believe it is your first, but it is so very nice. Great 1st wooden model! Robin Lous and Nikiforos 2 Quote Completed Projects: USS Fletcher 1:144 Scharnhorst 1:350 USS Independence LCS-2 1:350 1:32 J7W1 Shinden Interceptor/Fighter Fairey Swordfish Mk. II 1:48 Harbor Tug Box Scale Albatros D.V 1:32 Ala-Kart 1:25 Ferrari 250 GT California Spyder 1:24 S-100 Schnellboot 1:72 Mercury Capsule and Atlas Booster BR-52 Steam Locomotive 1:35 Triumph 3 HW Motorcycle 1:9 Scale F-16XL-2 Experimental Fighter Bomber 1:48 Rafale 1:48 F-15E Strike Eagle 1:48 Petlyakov PE-2 Soviet Dive Bomber 1:48 TBM3 Avenger 1:32 1931 Cadillac 1:25 Scammell Pioneer SV2S Heavy Breakdown Tractor 1:35 M-50 Israeli Sherman 1:35 Military Wrecker 1:32 Delahaye 135 1:24 Toyota Sard Supra GT 1:24 Enzo Ferrari 1:24 1970 Baldwin Motion Camaro 1:25 1966 Ford Galaxie 500 Stock Car 1:25 American LaFrance Eagle Fire Pumper 1:25 1940 Ford Standard Coupe 1:25 VolksWagen Dragster/Dune Buggy/Street Rod 1:25 Kawasaki Ninja H2 Carbon 1:12 Porsche GT-1 Evo 1:24 Scharnhorst 1940 1:700 IJN Akitsushima Seaplane Tender 1:700 HMS Hood 1941 1:700 Prinz Eugen 1942 1:700 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 9, 2017 Author Share #414 Posted October 9, 2017 Thanks! The kit came without a colour scheme. I did a lot of research...and used my imagination. There isn't much to rely on really. Some Greek black pottery images, Homer mentioned black bowed ships and some shipyard records about the use of resin and pine tar. Most artist impressions you see in books are pure fantasy, so there is very little you can trust. Most helpful to me are the reconstructions of the Argo (pentakontor), Olkas (trade ship) and Olympias (trieres). Most of my modifications come from the 3 ships. I'm not saying my modifications and colours are right, but they're plausible. The Dusek kit is very good imho, a bit basic though. Robin EJ_L and Nikiforos 2 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share #415 Posted October 10, 2017 With the stays done... The yard... This jigsaw puzzle will keep me busy for a while. Robin Baker, John Allen, mtaylor and 8 others 11 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 10, 2017 Share #416 Posted October 10, 2017 You need all that for one square sail EJ_L, Robin Lous and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barbossa Posted October 10, 2017 Share #417 Posted October 10, 2017 Nice ship, Robin Yet another fine example that there's so much more than traditional XVII and XVIII century sailing warships on the forum. Keep up the good work, and flush away the Photobucket frustrations with a few fine beers. Robin Lous, EJ_L and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Kind regards Christian "The original always beats the copy" (supportive statement) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJ_L Posted October 10, 2017 Share #418 Posted October 10, 2017 She is looking very nice Robin! Good job on your rigging. I'm liking the look of your sail also. She will be a great model to display with pride! Robin Lous 1 Quote "A Smooth Sea NEVER made a Skilled Sailor" - John George Hermanson -E.J. Current Builds - Royal Louis - Mamoli Royal Caroline - Panart Completed - Wood - Le Soleil Royal - Sergal - Build Log & Gallery La Couronne - Corel - Build Log & Gallery Rattlesnake - Model Shipways, HMS Bounty - Constructo Plastic - USS Constitution - Revel (twice), Cutty Sark. Unfinished - Plastic - HMS Victory - Heller, Sea Witch. Member : Nautical Research Guild Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Lous Posted October 10, 2017 Author Share #419 Posted October 10, 2017 Thanks gentlemen! Carl...2 clewlines and 8 buntlines go from the yard to the "large" pinrail aft. And the 2 brace and 2 sheetlines....3 more to hoist the yard and 1 for a flag or to get a crewmember up. So...that's 18...or so. Something like this... Robin Barbossa, CaptainSteve, EJ_L and 1 other 4 Quote WIP: No ships atm...sorry!🙄 Completed: Greek bireme - Dusek - scale 1:72 Louie da fly: "I think it requires a special kind of insanity to choose a galley to build a model of." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cog Posted October 10, 2017 Share #420 Posted October 10, 2017 Who's counting right ... EJ_L, Robin Lous and CaptainSteve 3 Quote Carl "Desperate affairs require desperate measures." Lord Nelson Search and you might find a log ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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