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Golden Hind ex-Pelican by Backer - scale 1/45 - Galleon late 16th century

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Hello Patrick

 

I must congratulate you on such a very fine build. I do believe that your method of the cutout centers of your framing is a great idea, it seems to give the best of both worlds the solid frames that I have used up to now and the true full frames that I feel that I do not have the skill for. Your method gives the builder a very wide choice of just how and how much detail that can be added to ones build. I do believe that I will give your method a try on my next build if I am fortunate enough to live that long.

 

No, Patrick, I am not ahead of you in your build, really it is just reversed, you are much farther ahead of me in your build. This I do not mind at all as it does give me a chance to follow along and will be a great help to me in selecting the amount of detail that I can add to my Golden Hinde. Please keep up the great job and I truly do appreciate all of the great ideas that I do get even if I do not use the same techniques as you or my fellow Ship Mates.                                                                                             ENJOY.  

 

Regards   Lawrence

 

 

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Hello Patrick

 

Great job you have did on your hull planking, it sure dose look good and well done. You certainly have did a lot of research on your Golden Hind and are doing a great job of applying this information to your build,          ENJOY.

 

Regards   Lawrence

 

 

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Thank you Lawrence.

 

Scratchbuilding a wooden ship  is something totally new to me.

Before I started this, I had no idea of the complex structure of the interior of a wooden ship.  

I have learned a lot of shipbuilding in the 16th century.

 

If all of the information I found is helpful to others.

glad to be of service.

 

Meanwhile, construction continues.

Saw cherry wood (With old-fashioned and with modern tools)

IMG_20170703_155609.thumb.jpg.81e55cf7abd3d7c15efc968638f3fe42.jpg

Replace  the plywood frames (work in progress).

IMG_20170703_165006.thumb.jpg.429cc39ecf19f7aaa539a4b82af86b01.jpg

I hope to do an update soon

 

 

And everyone
Thank you for following this log

 

Index post 1

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The plywood frames are replaced with frames of solid cherry wood.

After long thinking I took 9mm as a space between the frames.

It seems that the distance between 2 frames  could have been between 38 and 45 cm (on scale 1/45 =  9 to 10 mm).

This can match the width of the gun ports (40 cm) (10mm on scale 1/45)

IMG_20170608_203637.thumb.jpg.623a082c4a513cbc5ec28d4afad78e9b.jpg

I made  a mistake :default_wallbash::

I should have replaced the plywood frames first before start planking the upper hull.

Now I have a few frames that are in the middle of a cannon port.

I did not find any way to avoid this

I hope that this is no longer noticeable after the hull is fully planked.

5960c256b3804_IMG_20170707_195735-kopie(2).thumb.jpg.348646e8b97c7ba2e9ca8dbffb52b92f.jpg

 

Frames are supported at the top with soft wooden spacers (later easily removable).

All the frames are now too long ( Shortening them is easier than making them longer)

IMG_20170621_214346.thumb.jpg.8f4b254fe197c286648f5defd0a2df74.jpgIMG_20170625_140324.thumb.jpg.3c2326b0dd846ffcac65407a2cd7a9c6.jpgIMG_20170625_140408.thumb.jpg.3f0908aaad1e3008c0b23459c2c0b8c9.jpgIMG_20170625_140506.thumb.jpg.c0f56a2a50d34d5afd9684e721f8a63e.jpgIMG_20170625_140529.thumb.jpg.054bc78e80752562da360f609c603411.jpgIMG_20170702_100321.thumb.jpg.8b5a52a4c027aea0bd57c5a1a51245f9.jpgIMG_20170703_185534.thumb.jpg.fd3726820e4c36360b018529f2f5ed03.jpgIMG_20170707_184633.thumb.jpg.507a33e7cd557ecac3d75d4deec31de9.jpgIMG_20170707_184652.thumb.jpg.acd83f5541497779783fa2f2c03327ca.jpg

IMG_20170707_195812.thumb.jpg.5aa2e7410a6b8e3d22ed194db89c8f01.jpgIMG_20170707_195835.thumb.jpg.4acc56cc3f43dfa93fa3e11e7fe2ea05.jpgIMG_20170707_195954.thumb.jpg.cabaeb226ea89fdf28336724b806a1f0.jpgIMG_20170707_200049.thumb.jpg.fc229ae6660191e731a59b5012fed03e.jpg

An extension must still  be provided to the transom for the poop deck.

But before I can do this, I must first know where the other decks will match the transom. 

I think I choose for a balcony around the stern.

Maybe it's wrong, maybe it's right. Who knows?

5960c35a9a168_IMG_20170707_195735-kopie.thumb.jpg.993eecbfa603179174eb0c2a7dedb08e.jpg

Thanks for following this buildlog

Index post 1

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And now a question.

 

Ever heard of a breastshook?
This is a solid piece of wood that is attached to the bow.

IMG_20170708_151653.thumb.jpg.5b8309b3b1a619aae26085558bbf73da.jpg

 

A piece of wood on the deck as an example (Not yet in the right shape)

IMG_20170708_151744.thumb.jpg.a45d3d36deb2856fbd31c3c15abce24f.jpg

Would i attach this part on the deck?
Or is this actually placed under this deck? And is thereby invisible on this model.

 

i did a google search
But found no satisfactory answer

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Hi Patrick,

Your question interested me, so I consulted my very limited resources. In "The Built-Up Ship Model," Charles Davis includes the "Form of a Contract" from the Royal Navy to a shipbuilder for the specs of the 18-gun brig Raven in 1804. That's considerably later than your project, but maybe there's some continuity between the two. I know there are folks on this site who actually know what they're talking about, and maybe one of them will chime in!

 

Evidently, there was more than one breasthook, at least on the brig Raven. At least one was located below the decking, as far as I can figure out, and helped tie the cant frames together in the bow. It was fastened to the frames through the deck clamp as were the quarter knees on the transom. See the first image.

 

IMG_0061.thumb.JPG.3371f34e161586a25eff4fa0276b7be9.JPG

Here's the description in the Contract of this/these breasthooks:

IMG_0049.thumb.JPG.5d2a0344bf3a4d67c439969b3f611b31.JPG

The Contract mentions another breasthook located under the bowsprit. 

IMG_0051.thumb.JPG.e6f21e984735c70d18b429860bf052b6.JPG

 

So, on your model, I believe you could locate a breasthook between the deck and the rail, just under the bowsprit. I hope some of this was helpful.

 

Cheers!

 

Steve

 

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Patrick,

 

As usual your updates are so informative - so much learning going on. Your research is so impressive. Oh! your build is also super

impressive; such great work. Very much enjoying following along.

 

PS: Steve from Glendora hot enough for you this weekend?

 

Cheers,

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Steve,

 

APOLOGIES - was not at all intended that way (;-(. That said I see how I may have come across as insensitive - obvious in retrospect.

 

PS: My sweetheart sis lives in Phoenix AZ - we joke about this topic all the time.

 

Patrick Apologies as well for adding my silliness to your log. Done with - inconsiderate - unrelated -thoughts.

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Steve

Thank you for the information
So, definitely no breast hook on the deck.
If possible, I will place one under the bow.


And my friends.
Enjoy the nice weather in the weekend as much as possible.

 

About me

Just back from a couple of days hiking in Luxembourg

With good food and drinks included (Of course  ;))

 

 

 

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Further planking of the transom.

 

After long doubt

There will be a balcony on the transom.

There is one door and 2 small windows.

 

First attempt.

IMG_20170720_204416.thumb.jpg.c49215e8acdd6e6b3db110fac8cc4297.jpgIMG_20170720_210829.thumb.jpg.3f061a6bedf1cc038067125fbf055b10.jpgIMG_20170720_215601.thumb.jpg.f4edf520c7cde6162e94755987f0a1b9.jpg

IMG_20170721_181341.thumb.jpg.cf9a4e569a85ab61a4ee30ed9a8cf3c4.jpg

5974402acd22e_IMG_20170721_195217-kopie.thumb.jpg.cc6f6dd13d39397f009f692ab57cd521.jpg

A rectangular door, not good.

So : remove and rebuilt

IMG_20170722_130231.thumb.jpg.7e3bd244e3391fb19ef3be7c63cf8086.jpg

This is better

IMG_20170722_130318.thumb.jpg.0f47d726369e388ccddeda1ef3cab41d.jpg

What you can do with a piece of 2 euros

IMG_20170722_140309.thumb.jpg.4f15ba76db23237a969249b3abce86ac.jpg

Done

IMG_20170722_164817.thumb.jpg.bf82a66fea26c22971b8bb4d0c0655b1.jpg

 

Index post 1

 

Thanks for following this build

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Making the poop at the stern of the ship.

 

"Poop"

If you ever come to Flanders or the Netherlands and you say "poop" in English

People will probably look strange to you.

 

I searched in wikipedia where this name comes from

The name originates from the French word for sternla poupe, from Latin puppis.

A good explanation (It has something to do with a certain part of our admiral ;))

 

Attach supports to the stern.

IMG_20170723_122800.thumb.jpg.a945ee59bd3e3e3719e83eaaf7aaf69e.jpgIMG_20170723_123536.thumb.jpg.80ebcd4d12916e8e44c7f46a6119900d.jpg

 

Attach “frames” on the supports

IMG_20170723_165546.thumb.jpg.8a7b48ccafbe49fc6a758fbf60ab3ba2.jpgIMG_20170723_172245.thumb.jpg.69dd2147b2873d77a1ddecebdcceb949.jpgIMG_20170723_172917.thumb.jpg.bb57de7a6d436d2f19be2d6d873bd668.jpg

 

2 extra supports for the deck ( there is just enough room between them  to open the door )

IMG_20170723_195345.thumb.jpg.b15ae58387cc5556b8d6bedef4f7400b.jpg

 

Planking,  there are two windows for the cabin in the poop.

Cabins in the rear will be planked on the inside.

IMG_20170724_153906.thumb.jpg.020ef84e4304709adad42013971befb9.jpgIMG_20170724_154001.thumb.jpg.28ad17eed3e7fbb3f4ebf66eb16ffe38.jpgIMG_20170724_160300.thumb.jpg.55d95a024623caf33180bedf0de3cd07.jpgIMG_20170725_123845.thumb.jpg.2a678eee66273d8b0b667db51f1a696b.jpg

 

The wales on the stern.

From now on, most of my information will come of old drawings and paintings from the 16th and early 17th century

It seems that no standard can be found in how many wales there are on the stern.

Where there are openings made in the stern, there are apparently wales provided

IMG_20170729_171621.thumb.jpg.66027307a2beb4b83101d3158109e963.jpg

 

I have thus provided 2 wales

One under the door of the balcony

One under the opening of the helm (At the same level as the lodging knee on the orlop deck).

This could be correct.

There are also 2 small holes made next to the opening of the helm.

IMG_20170729_171429.thumb.jpg.38b468981fafb0eb2d58ced3bd9a2bc1.jpg

 

Thus, the wale (outside) can be attached to the lodging knee (inside)

IMG_20170729_171322.thumb.jpg.b2d2926bfe915bd8e3c82caac4ed8e15.jpg 

 

 

With some extra detail inside

IMG_20170729_171133.thumb.jpg.4a96407459ef06dc79d8e83d3a969d0a.jpgIMG_20170729_171700.thumb.jpg.3e12c336133ec923352e1ebad0594ecb.jpg

 

IMG_20170730_093738.thumb.jpg.816ec8fa41562e6175629d3161161cf9.jpgIMG_20170730_093820.thumb.jpg.69725d051f11fb82fbeeefecefec90d7.jpgIMG_20170730_093915.thumb.jpg.9b32f1ce4a635e7fc9c963c90aa1ffac.jpg

 

Thanks for following this build

 

Index post 1

 

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Hi Patrick

Superb work. The way you tackle the inner  structures ( frames..) is just amazing. 

The pics related to the detail inside clearly show that you are to avoid , what I call " the torsion trap".

Meaning - for instance -  an ill alignment starting from the forecastle deck compared to the quarterdeck

 

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Thank you christian and michael. And everyone who follows

 

I actually thought the hardest part was over.
Well, it is not.

For the time being, no remains of shipwrecks have been found for the upper part of ships from the 16th century.

 

About the build:

All that remains to use as an example are

drawings and paintings from the 16th and early 17th century
The Mary Rose, which is a little too old.

And the Vasa, which is a little too young.

 

And:
The "Detailed" plans of ships from the 16th and 17th centuries.
Usually these plans are drawn in the 19th and 20th centuries.
They are useful, but compared to the remains of shipwrecks, they are full of mistakes.

Using the modern replicas of the Golden Hind to build a model is also not the right way to me.


So now, Before further planking, first think and make drawings

 

I also think the stern is quite high. As it is now built.
It must remain a stable ship
So, it is possible that poopdeck wil be lowered.

 

The inner parts (frames) wil be explaned later. When i complete the orlop deck


And in September we will visit Batavia ship in the Netherlands.
Not the same ship as the Golden Hind ..
But ideal to think about life on an old sailing ship.
I gowing to take a lot of photos (and if allowed post them on MSW)

 

 

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Patrick

 

Your research is, as I and others have often stated super impressive. But IMO don't knock yourself out - whatever you

end up with will obviously be sort of a general "guess".

 

High stern? lower it and some will say that it is too low (:-) At the end of the day it still requires a lot of 16th century timeline guesswork.

Your GH will be brilliant in any case ( by that I meant YOUR concerns) we are always our worst critic are we not??

 

====================

 

This would be the same for the Vasa builders (hull) had it not been resurrected. It's rigging, however, is generally speaking ok - but as Fred Hocker has indicated many of the actual pin

and rail locations are guesses as well.

 

====================

 

Batavia will be a great visit - Enjoy.

 

PS: I have been tempted to return to see the Vasa Museum again - my visit was 19 years ago. 

 

Cheers,

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Thanks Michael,

 

Since I started this model.

I only realized how spoiled I was with the information i can find about military material from the 20th century.  And how hard it is to find something about a ship about 500 years ago.

This obviously has pros and cons.

I can not give a Tiger or a Sherman tank a wrong color, number etc.

Because ... there's always a picture that proves i'm wrong.

Give a Golden Hind or any other ship out of that period a higher or lower deck.

Nobody can say you're wrong, or right.

 

That's just the fun of this project.

First the reaserch

Then the building

Then Post on Msw (and in the meantime I learn more English)

And then receive comments and help if needed from others

 

Be sure to visit the Vasa again.

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Beautiful work, Patrick. And the depth of your research is very impressive. It is wonderful to see someone putting so much time and effort into assembling all the information available to get a model as close as possible to the reality, especially when the information is so scarce. I feel the same about research - I think it is at least half the fun of modelling.

 

Steven 

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Thanks Steven.

 

I fully agree with you.

In the early 80's I built a M113 APC model and gave it a rusty look. Only to discover later that an M113 is made of aluminum... a stupid beginner mistake .:default_wallbash:
Since then, i do research as much as possible.

 

For now, have a good idea of how to proceed with the Golden Hind. The final shape is already in my head. Now I just have to transfer it to the model.

 

Ps,

Beautiful dromon you are building

 

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Hello Patrick

 

You sure are doing a great job on your Golden Hind, with so very much very fine detail. I kind of wish that I had chosen a larger scale for my ship, but we do live in a small home and most places are already taken up. A little ship such as I am building leaves so little space to add all of the detail that I like so much and to try to keep it in scale is quite difficult. I sure do like all of that research that you are doing as it is making your build very interesting to follow,  WELL DONE,                                                                 ENJOY.

 

Regards   Lawrence

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Thanks Lawrence,

 

I do my best to build the model as good as possible. A larger scale indeed has more possibilities.

Meanwhile, the planking of the upper part of the hull continues.
But because I do not use plans or drawings. This requires a lot of thinking and fitting (trial and error method)

I see that the build of your Golden Hind has good progress and looks very good.


Meanwhile we have been on holiday and there was a lot of extra work in the garden.
So, there was not much time for shipbuilding in the last month.

 

I hope to do an update soon.

 

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After completing planking of the stern. I had the problem of how do I now continue

No good plans or drawings and no remains of a shipwreck to look at.

Only some ideas in my head that I could not transfer on my model.

 

So, why do not make drawings on the model.

How? Using Post-it , magic tape, pencil and paper.

very easy. If it turns out that the dimensions are not correct. A new post-it on the model and I just start drawing again.

I have never seen this method . But for me this way is very helpful.

IMG_20170731_154554.thumb.jpg.e2c752c4305db17a25f183fc092471e6.jpgIMG_20170731_185138.thumb.jpg.2a491cbf19a6afe7396de768d4d5a781.jpgIMG_20170803_094213.thumb.jpg.b8a2ca2bd68ddff78308403a2c836a71.jpg

 

Gun ports are made.

IMG_20170802_134653.thumb.jpg.b9b9ee332394f673a08b24c5fce56fa1.jpgIMG_20170803_094042.thumb.jpg.e6d1f3aae82b2b33c53e87f32f8df3c7.jpgIMG_20170803_094130.thumb.jpg.cbd644e6a7f6930a26d6d51249cec6c3.jpg 

 

The front frame is first reinforced before further planking. This is to avoid warping.

And planking is started.

The wales on this part of the hull are narrower then the one on the lower hull.

IMG_20170803_103340.thumb.jpg.e4986999c81c97edf6b408b89f0498df.jpg

 IMG_20170803_185227.thumb.jpg.80a6ecf1511c4ee1838a6887d4b59afd.jpgIMG_20170805_170710.thumb.jpg.70d4e09288a565d61e8c0b7553113f04.jpgIMG_20170806_164515.thumb.jpg.3dee648b23ef586acb4cd49a221c220b.jpg

 

 

The lowest frames are made to the proper hight.

 IMG_20170904_135254.thumb.jpg.eae8aac5c47642d70720bdf62850b9d2.jpgIMG_20170904_135356.thumb.jpg.38effbdc862dbba702fac6cdf2c5fe53.jpgIMG_20170904_140022.thumb.jpg.52e779250c2c1f8970d6324feab83973.jpgIMG_20170904_141110.thumb.jpg.333132a8e1dcb300936cc7189b6523f3.jpg

 

Don’t now the proper name for this part. But the idea was that is has to look if the wale is

going from front to back in one line.

 IMG_20170903_073941.thumb.jpg.6ab31d3bdc546bf53aecd964b56aec10.jpgIMG_20170904_193438.thumb.jpg.f77b603eaadc61a9b866ee615d4d1139.jpgIMG_20170904_193507.thumb.jpg.19cde8b8839a9714c7938f1b6c3c4fbc.jpgIMG_20170904_200635.thumb.jpg.9cfb13b39ea9f07b0b6bc25f7445b27a.jpg

Further planking.

 IMG_20170905_111314.thumb.jpg.74d2618606823c2f5fdc8862449c3dcf.jpgIMG_20170905_125953.thumb.jpg.92ac41c991fa18a89fd66ce412156320.jpgIMG_20170905_153157.thumb.jpg.52fa15a79362a4c61625065edb9b979e.jpgIMG_20170905_153217.thumb.jpg.d02b610af69556bcfc88720326a1379c.jpgIMG_20170909_085042.thumb.jpg.b56aece7f691e6b861bb9ccbdef87a36.jpg

Scraping and sanding.

 IMG_20170909_110819.thumb.jpg.eb2787633bf73f365e2bf27ae5106d77.jpgIMG_20170909_110849.thumb.jpg.ebfaa5a02aa868419ec4ef05a1c2f03c.jpgIMG_20170909_110902.thumb.jpg.54ea71430c84b7735c71aa795d9814d5.jpgIMG_20170909_110927.thumb.jpg.0afeab15147b0ab1fa69286aaa02e495.jpg

 

The planking of the hull is almost done. But first I have to saw more planks  and wales

PICT1374.thumb.JPG.ad53c6553e6ebe7ad445eb86867f6ea8.JPGPICT1377.thumb.JPG.e706d5d1fbce64ba7385b9b3e2b0537d.JPGPICT1378.thumb.JPG.4e6f2184a7ab3d27c1397b69b5d9c043.JPG

 

Thanks for following

 

Index in post 1

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Thanks everyone for the nice comments and likes.

 

Painting schemes :

I've already thought about it. But painting will not be done in the near future.

The Golden Hind is probably re-painted a few times on her journey. So I can choose from a few options.
- A brand new Pelican as she left England.
- A repainted Pelican renamed as Golden Hind
- A worn out Golden Hind on her trip home.

So, i do not know this yet,  but probably i go for the repainted Golden Hind.

 

Painting Below the water line: definitely white or cream (the white stuff)
Unpainted wood: presumably a dark brown wood color

 

Thanks for following

 

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