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Armed Virginia Sloop by Hill202 - Model Shipways - scale 1:48


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I need to stop reading the thread " Can I live without a Byrnes table saw" before it convinces me that I need one.

YES.....You do need one...end of story...That is all for now..;)

 

 

Bill

Passion is Patience...and I am a carpenter in any scale.

 

 

Current build;  Endurance - 1:70 scale, Occre

 

Current build;    H.M.S. Surprise - 1796, 1:48 A L

                                    

 

 

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If you plan to stay with this hobby, you DO need a Byrnes saw!  It will allow you to mill your own timbers, and free you forever from basswood parts!  Crown Timberyard does a nice job supplying lumber, but at a cost, and they don't necessarily stock what you're looking for.  Today I picked up a piece of katalox (AKA Mexican ebony) to use for wales and black strakes.  It would be hard to find a scale timber supplier who could provide that!

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Do any of you guys use a plank bender like this? I bought it off that auction site ( not sure if I can reference that site here). 

I find that design esy to use for using in a fixture to clamping it into a vise and moving damp wood over the head to bend the piece.  I hope my sister found and packed it away when She moved me.

David B

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Joe,

 

I did use something similar (but not identical) to that plank bender when I started on my first model, and it does work, but I was also using a lot of water (soaking and then using the hot electric bender).

 

Since then I've switched to using the method used by Chuck Passaro with great success - You should be able to find a video in the planking subforum, but basically I bend using nothing but a heat-gun now, no water at all, and I'm quite happy with the results.

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Do the bottom of the stern frames, the curved part, form an arch underneath? or should they all be shimmed to form a straight line? If you go back and look at other's logs, you can see that it was done both ways. If the bottom of the frames form an arch, then the planks there will have a bow.

 

I hope these pics help to clarify my question.

post-26307-0-56267800-1477214267_thumb.jpg

post-26307-0-26246600-1477214275_thumb.jpg

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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Zoltan ,if the counter forms an arch, why are your planks laying flat underneath?

 

The problem I have is the frames need to be shimmed to fit in the window sills. I'm not sure how far down to take that shim or if I need to add shims to others to match.

 

Looking at Brian's ship, it appears that his stern frames form a straight line across, with no arch.

 

So, in other words, does the bottom of frame 3, hang lower that the bottom of frame 1?

Edited by Hill202

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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Joe:  Take a look at the photos of the stern I posted on page 3 of this log.  There is definitely an arc to the frames that form the transom and counter.  Here's a look at the transom after final planking.

 

 

post-3900-0-67832400-1477230262_thumb.jpg

Edited by DocBlake
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Clay Feldman the former editor of SIS published a book on building the AVS along with a CD If I remember right.  From what I have read it will steer you in the right direction.  

David B

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Regarding the aeropiccola plank bender (the company which designed it), that's the one I and those in the Brooklyn group (including Dan Pariser) use. It's nice in that you have variation in how you extreme you can bend the planks however we don't bother with the attachment piece, it isn't necessary. Not sure why other plank benders don't have the same shape head it's extremely useful.

Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale

 

Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress)

 

Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond...

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Regarding the aeropiccola plank bender (the company which designed it), that's the one I and those in the Brooklyn group (including Dan Pariser) use. It's nice in that you have variation in how you extreme you can bend the planks however we don't bother with the attachment piece, it isn't necessary. Not sure why other plank benders don't have the same shape head it's extremely useful.

 

The variations on the head are what caught my eye also. I was thinking the end with the sharp taper would be useful in making the extreme bends that are needed at the stern. The attachment is sort of odd. You have to set everything before you plug it in, it gets hot, just like the head.

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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I've never used that kind of plank bender. Joe.  The really thin veneers don't really require anything more than a little soaking in water if you need them to turn sharply (lake the stern of the AVS).  The first planking of the hull uses much thicker stock in general, but is softer wood and bends easily with soaking.  For my second planking on "Independence" which is 1/32" thick, I'm using heat:  just an old clothes iron.  It works great!

 

Dave, I have not read much of chapter 2 yet. I just assumed that's how you guys were bending the planks. Are you soaking the planks and clamping them wet and glueing when dry ?

 

I think I read where Bob Hunt glues them wet with Ca glue. I want to avoid this if I can. I'd much rather work with the Titebond.

 

Thanks for the link.

 

That picture is the one I needed. There are very few photos that show that arch like that. Thanks. I believe I am back on track with it now.

Edited by Hill202

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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Joe:

 

I soaked the first layer of planking for the bending.  To glue the planks to the bulkhead I used a dab of Weldbond and a dab of CA glue (they play well together!) at each bulkhead.  The moistened plank activated the CA for an immediate bond while the Weldbond sets up.  No clamping!  Try it on some scrap and see!

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The attachment is removable. It's supposed to be for keeping the plank in place but really not necessary. Aeropiccola is long gone but from what I can tell their version is still the fav of those who use electric benders.

 

And thanks for that Feldman link Doc! Definitely future subjects of interest to me. I'd like them both 1/64 but that just means downscaling by exactly half, ezpz ^_^

Edited by CharlieZardoz

Build on hold: HM Sultana 1/64th scale

 

Current Build: 31 ton Doughty revenue cutter as USRC Active 1/64th scale (in progress)

 

Future Interests: Ballahoo, Diligence, Halifax and beyond...

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Do the bottom of the stern frames, the curved part, form an arch underneath? or should they all be shimmed to form a straight line? If you go back and look at other's logs, you can see that it was done both ways. If the bottom of the frames form an arch, then the planks there will have a bow.

 

 

I don't have the plans handy to check, but I checked the fashion piece that I have running under that point on my model and it does have a very slight bow.  It's slight enough that I had to hold a straight edge under it to verify it wasn't actually straight.  No idea without going back and looking at the plans whether that's correct or not though.

 

Keep in mind that I built the stern as much as I could based on the plans, against Bob's advice and the practicum, and I also included a fashion piece running along the bottom below the windows which is not part of the plans or the practicum, so mine is a bit unique in that area.

Edited by GuntherMT
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Dave, I have not read much of chapter 2 yet. I just assumed that's how you guys were bending the planks. Are you soaking the planks and clamping them wet and glueing when dry ?

 

I think I read where Bob Hunt glues them wet with Ca glue. I want to avoid this if I can. I'd much rather work with the Titebond.

 

 

That technique works well for Bob (and Dave uses something similar), but I completely avoided the use of CA as much as possible in my model, even when doing the first planking layer, as I didn't want to get into 'bad habits' (my personal thing, obviously it works great for some).  CA will make bad stains on some woods, so I just wanted to avoid it completely since I intended from the beginning to leave my hull natural, so wouldn't be able to cover up any CA stains with paint.

 

If you find the area where I'm working on planking in my log, I describe my system of using PVA (Titebond original) only, and how I personally believe that it adheres quickly to not need to use CA at all in 99% of the situations I ran into while planking.

 

Quick summary - put a super thin layer of PVA onto both the plank you are attaching, as well as the surface it will be attached to.  Because the layer of PVA is so thin, it will dry and tack up almost immediately so that the first piece you apply it to (in my case that was generally the plank itself) will appear to be dry when you've finished applying a thin layer to the target spot.  At that point you put the plank into position and apply it with as firm of pressure as you can manage with your fingers for a few seconds, and bam.. it's glued in place.

 

For applying the thin layer, I would run a small bead of glue along the plank, and then use the flat end of a scrap plank to spread it along the plank until there were no spots that were still colored like yellow glue, and instead it was just a super thin clear layer of glue.  

 

The key to making this work of course is that you need to get the plank fitting all done prior to using glue.  Using heat only, I would get the plank bends to match the location it was going to go (and of course sanding/trimming as needed) as closely as possible so that the plank would not have any stress placed on it once it was tacked in position.

 

Guess it just goes to show you that there are as many ways for gluing planks in position as there are modelers doing it.  :)

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Thanks Brian. I have been playing around with it and practicing bends. I'll come up with a technique using a combination of all these tips. I was concerned about the planks shrinking as well. I have noticed that when you bend a plank wet and pin it until its dry, it really holds its position well.

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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Joe with regards to the stern framing, I checked my plans and page two has two images that look to show different things to me. 2-G looks to show the window frames looking straight across. But image 2-J shows a slight arch in the actual planking. I personally like the flat look so I tried to get the frames as flat as I could. If I recall this kit is not based off a specific ship so I chose to go for the line that I thought looked better. Anyways thats my two cents.

Michael

 

Current build:

Armed Virginia Sloop - Model Shipways

 

Completed builds:

Indian Girl Canoe - Midwest

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Joe with regards to the stern framing, I checked my plans and page two has two images that look to show different things to me. 2-G looks to show the window frames looking straight across. But image 2-J shows a slight arch in the actual planking. I personally like the flat look so I tried to get the frames as flat as I could. If I recall this kit is not based off a specific ship so I chose to go for the line that I thought looked better. Anyways thats my two cents.

 

You're right, the plans do seem to show 2 different things. Mine is going to have a slight arc. I'm working with the last window now.

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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Worked on the arc some. The windows look rough. I will work on smoothing them, when I get ready to paint them. It is still a little off. I'll come back to it. I'm "sterned" out for now.

post-26307-0-36400400-1477327899_thumb.jpg

Edited by Hill202

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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You can use a table saw with a taper jig, there are blades thin enough. I just use a knife a/o a sanding block. I  usually always also sand  a slight bevel to the tapered side of the planks

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Joe:  Your transom is looking very nice!

 

I use a #11 blade and a sanding block to taper planks. 

 

Thanks Dave.

 

I have a band saw. I used it to rough cut the bow filler blocks and it did ok, not great. I can see where I would use a scroll saw more than a table saw.

Joe

 

  Current build:    Armed Virginia sloop

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