Albatros 1840 by BrianD2112 - Constructo - scale 1:55 - Baltimore Schooner

[BrianD2112]

I am having a few issues with planking the hull. The first 3 laid pretty nice and then little rougher each time. The planks having trouble with kind of double bend and are layering on each other a bit. I am not sure what last planks will be anchored to. Any suggestions will be appreciated. I will live with what the out  come is being my first attempt but would love to improve it as much as possible.

[EJ_L]

This is a normal problem with planking a ship. You are taking a straight piece of lumber and making it bend in two different directions as we as taper to fit into many different dimensions. This is why making sure the hull is properly faired and that you take the time to do a proper layout and you stick to it. With only having the one picture to go off of and not being there to see what and how you are building, please forgive me if I state obvious things that you may already be doing. Also please keep in mind I am not criticizing to be mean or to put down your work but to help you out so that you can learn, fix and improve. 

 

I will start with the first thing that it looks like I am seeing and that is all of your planks appear to be the same width the entire way through front to back. This is why you are running out of room. The stem and stern of a ships hull have less space than the center due to the way the center widens out for stability. Your planks will be at their widest here and will taper down narrower at the stern and especially the bow. Often this taper will be as much as half the width of the plank. This is why taking the time to measure and lay out the plank pattern on the edges of the frames is vital to a successful planking. For example, you may have planks that are 5mm wide in the center and from the center frame they will begin to taper till they are only 2.5mm at the bow and 3mm at the stern. If you do not do this you will run out of room just like you are at the bow and stern and have a big gap in the middle.

 

So how to fix this. There are really only three solutions. The first is to rip it all off and try again. Depending upon the glue you used or the spare material available will help you decide on this option. The second is to just fit in the planks as best you can, sand it smooth and paint over it all to help hide the mistakes. The third is to read up on using stealers and drop planks which are common to see in models to solve this problem. Try not to fee l bad as this is something we all had to learn our way through. My first wooden ship model has a lot of this same issue as I didn't know what I was doing and worse yet, I didn't have this site, or anyone else for help. 

 

To the problem of running out of attachment points, again mostly see above. If the planks were all measured and tapered properly they would all fit on the frames front to rear. This is also why filler blocks are recommended for the bow and stern areas. With the extreme curvature and the smaller space, filler blocks give extra attaching points to help hold the planks in place. That is still an option for you if you choose to just fill in the missing planks as best you can. Get some scrap wood to glue between the frames and now you have a place to glue your planks. 

 

There are a few more issues that are need to be addressed as well, fairing the hull and how the planks are tapered to form tight joints but unless you are planning to start over I will skip those for now.

 

If you have not found it, here is the link to a group of very good tutorials and how to's. Basically everything I have been saying is in here plus some drawings and more great information. You should read them all as they all are good however I recommend to start with A Primer on Planking, Simple Hull Planking and Planking Tutorial - Lining Off a Hull. The first two deal with the basics of planking and explain drop planks and stealers though they both explain that with the proper planing neither should be needed. The last one deals with ensuring you won't need drops or stealers and introduces spiling which is a planking method that deals cutting the planks to a curved shape before bending them to guarantee a smooth and easy fit and taking care of all the problems you are now encountering.  

 

I know this is a lot of information to throw at you but that is why we say take your time. I know it is exciting and easy to get carried away but slow up and things will come together. In a way you are fortunate that your mess up ison the bottom of your ship as that is the easiest spot to hide.

[BrianD2112]

i am posting few more pictures so you can see more of what i did. I did taper planks at bow but not sure if enough, I have 5 mm wide planks and tapered to 2.5 mm starting at the 2nd frame from the bow, wondering if due to lack of experience, the frames were not faired  as well as i thought. I saw the video on tapering and couple the articles you listed before i started planking. I did not look at the steam bending one how ever. I will re read those and I have a book on planking arriving any day now. I will proceed carefully and do the best I can then patch, fill and sand then most likely paint to hide . Thanks for your advice E.J.and i will study more b4 proceeding.

[BrianD2112]

After reading I may see a at least a couple of my issues. Let me know if correct. One: I need to improve my fairing of frames. Two: I did bend the frames for the curvature of the hull running from bow to stern BUT not for the curvature relative to each other (planks) going from deck to keel.

[EJ_L]

You got it. Those are all the things to improve on. The next time around it is easier. Now that you can see the bad results, a lot of what the tutorials are saying should hopefully start to make better sense. As to the tapering, it should start further back. That is the importance of measuring the spacing on each frame. By doing that you will see when and where the spacing begins to shrink down and that is where the taper needs to start. Often it will be across many frames not just one or two. 

[BrianD2112]

Thanks E.J.

[dgbot]

Brian from what I have seen of your hull spiling would bave been extremely important.  I once did a model of the Golden Hind.  And the hull shape was extremely different than what I was used to.  I spent a week lining off the hull to get the proper planking.  Almost evey plank had to be shaped.  This was done using card templates and a proportional divider.  But the effort was orth it.  Planking a hull can be considered one of the more difficult parts of modeling.  But once mastered you can apply what you have learned to other areas.  

David B

[BrianD2112]

Very true dgbot I would have benefited greatly from that with out a doubt. I am shaping each individual plank for the remaining planks. E.J. will be happy to know I have spent today improving filling at bow, working bulkheads and shaping strakes before laying another hull plank. I think I will have cut the strake into two planks for last few strakes to make them properly fit. However, I still have some work to do before I resume hull planking.

[EJ_L]

Brian, good to hear that you are stepping back and working on improving your planking. You will be much happier that you did. I'm looking forward to seeing how she turns out.

[BrianD2112]

I am still moving along all be it  very slowly and like a jig saw puzzle due to previous errors but still progressing.I still have other side to complete.  I will need some help with advice on filling and sanding b4 I paint to minimize the visibility of my planking mistakes. if still does do not look even some what presentable, I will take a small pick ax and make a hole in the hull and then get a rock from the yard put it in the whole and say she was ship wrecked . I will definitely need to do some work at  the planks ends at the bow to get the bow keel piece to look any where close to tight fit. Looking forward to planking the deck in a couple of weeks or so.

[EJ_L]

On the first build the most important thing is that you are learning. Even if what you are learning is how not to do things.

 

When you go to trim up the bow and stern do it very slowly. Trace out the edges of the stern and stem posts but do not cut on those lines. Instead, cut inside them so that the opening is smaller than what you will need. From there you can test fit the pieces and just gradually widen the slot until they fit nice and snug. That is really the method to fitting any pieces on these models especially with the often complex shapes that we make. Sand paper and files will become your best friends in making sure all your parts fit correctly.

 

On wood filler, I just use Elmer's wood filler on anything that will be painted or second planked. As it sounds like you will be painting and not staining then it is not as important on what you use as it will be covered up. Just make sure that when you are done sanding and smoothing that you can still see individual planks. If you end up having to put a thicker layer in placed and the edges of the planks become covered up then you may want to take a knife or awl or something with a point and scratch out the plank lines.  

[BrianD2112]

Ok I have (attempted) to plank the hull. I am not sure if I should fill, sand and paint hull b4 moving on to planking the deck since this model was never meant to be painted and there is not any info in instructions. If I should, any suggestions or articles to read. I have not found any on application of wood filler and sanding yet.

[EJ_L]

I would go ahead and finish the hull before inboard. My first question is have you ever used wood filler or spackle before? If so then disregard the next little bit. If not then it is easy to apply. First though go ahead and and down your hull. Get it as smooth as you can so that there are no rough edges and the shape of the hull can be seen. Blow off the saw dust or better yet use a vacuum to remove the dust especially between the planks. Now you should be able to see the gaps in the planking as well as any low spots in the hull or and funny shapes to the curvature of the hull.

 

To fill in the gaps simply apply the filler with anything from a small putty knife to a stick of scrap wood, tongue depressor style craft sticks or even you finger will work. Use thin layers and do not glob it on thick. It is always easier to add another thin layer than it is to sand off a lot of excess filler. For the low spots in the hull you want to use something that will be wide enough to stretch from high spot to high spot across the depression so that the filler lays down under the stick in the space created by the span. Let it dry, (read instructions on container as brands vary) and look to see if more is needed. If obvious gaps appear then go ahead and apply more filler otherwise begin sanding.

 

Be careful when sanding that you don't dig into the wood and create dips. If you can use a sanding block to keep the hull lines straight that is best. Around curves though you just need to exercise caution and sand lightly. This is also where I stress again, when applying the filler, go easy and use thin layers. You do not want to have to sand large amounts back off. Waste of time and materials plus it is tiring. You should be able to feel the curvature of the hull under your hand as you sand. Pay attention to the overall shape and curves and feel for spots that do not follow the natural and expected shape. Also pay attention to where you are sanding. The wood and filler will change color somewhat and will obviously become smoother as you sand. Again this is why you go slow and look at where you are sanding. Low spots on your hull will remain rough and the same color as before you started to sand. If you see this happening that is an indication of where more filler may be needed. Apply another thin layer in that area and when dry repeat the sanding. Do this as many times as needed to achieve a nice evenly smooth hull.  

 

This next step is up to you. As this is a first build this detail may not be that important to you. On a wooden ship, the planking is a major feature. Seeing each strake clearly is one of the things that people enjoy seeing. Depending upon the amount of filler that had to be used many of the individual strakes may be covered up. Hope is not lost as they can be faked into the hull. The way to do this is to scribe them in using a hobby knife or anything similar with a sharp tip. Hopefully the majority of the strakes can be seen so that all you have to do is scribe the line through the filler from where it disappears to where it reappears. Again, go slow as this can be tricky to keep straight on a curved surface. You do not want to cut all the way through the filler just deep enough to leave a groove that will represent the edge of the plank.

 

Now you are ready for paint. Color is up to you though typically the lower hull would be white. How you paint it is again up to you but I would recommend an airbrush if you have one and if not then a rattle ball can (spray paint) will work. Krylon, Rustoleum or whatever your local hobby/craft/walmart sells will work fine. Look for flat or satin finishes. What you want is a smooth, even finish without brush strokes and not to heavy. Too heavy and the paint will fill in the spaces between planks. Like with the filler, paint in light layers. Lay down a light cover and let dry. Then apply a second, third or fourth as needed till you can no longer see the wood through the paint.

 

Simplified that is it. The stuff I have been using is Elmer's Carpenter's Wood Filler. I got the color change stuff that goes on purple and dries white so you can easily tell when it's ready for sanding. I bought a small 8 oz container and have been using it for years. Probably picked it up at either Home Depot or another hardware store for just a few dollars. It is stainable, paintable, sandable and cleans up with water.

 

Hope this helps and good luck!

[BrianD2112]

Thanks E.J. Exceptional and detailed answer as always. I will work on sanding over next few days to prepare to apply filler. After some reading, I was wondering if I could double plank this model even though it is not meant to be and of course would have to order more planking. Just a thought

[EJ_L]

You should be able to double plank it. You can order some wood 1mm or even 1/2mm thick that would not add too much to the hull. You will still have to do all the sanding but it would make the hull look much nicer that way. Double planked hulls are great for learning as they give you twice the practice while allowing for more mistakes on the first as they can be covered. Plus the second layer now has a much better surface to lay the planks on which allows for a much nicer finish. I would highly recommend going that route if you don't mind spending the extra money. It will be worth the effort.

[BrianD2112]

I think I might just do that I will use filler & sand and if I can get a reasonable surface I will double plank. I know I could use the practice.

[BrianD2112]

I have sanding the hull and is starting to look promising to plank. I am going to order some timber but have a few questions.

The hull plank strips appear to be mahogany correct? For this ship

If ordering some additional planking It seems wise to perhaps order some stock for future use? if so what should I get

I have been looking at Amati Master Cut Tool. It looks like would be useful for beginner like me or just waste of money??

[Robin Lous]

I have the Amati cutter.

It's a neat tool, but not fantastic. When you push down the arm with the blade it can easily move sideways, so you won't cut straight.

I solved this to mark the base where it's 90 degrees, bit still...keep an eye on it.

Other issue...there's no workable scale (there is something, but useless), so you need to mark the right lenght with a piece of tape.

 

Overall....nice and cheap, but it could be better. I'm still happy with it.

 

Robin

[EJ_L]

I always order extra wood when I buy any. Never know what may come up that you will need it be it a mistake or deliberate decision. I will get a variety of sizes and usually even some sheets if they are available.

 

As for the tool I have not used that one myself. I do have a cheap-o one that came in a kit from several years back. It works ok on very soft woods but not the most acurate as Robin said, the blade can move. I would buy a hand miter saw. It is what I use to cut the majority of my wood when making straight cuts. I do have other saws but that little miter box gets a lot of use. They are cheap and easy to find at any hobby store.

[BrianD2112]

I got a miter saw and box with a tool kit that came with a combo kit but the box has no slots cut in it . Then ordered just the box from another company it was back ordered and then cancelled But I will try again with different company when I order wood

[EJ_L]

If you have a Hobby Lobby near you they sell them. If not, here is the link for them on their website. They are Excel brand. You will want to get the 1-1/4" saw blade to fit the box.

[BrianD2112]

Thanks E.J. going to hobby lobby tomorrow

[BrianD2112]

I got my Mitre box from Hobby Lobby today (finally) and I also picked up some small files and balsa wood blocks for filler on next build. I am going to order wood for 2nd planking and stock. The best place I have found is Cornwall in UK. They seem to have a very good selection of wood and sizes especially for my model. Is there and US or other company that is frequently used here.

[BrianD2112]

As I have been sanding my hull, I come to realize that there are some depressions too deep to sand out due bad planking techniques lol. I was wondering if I should fill them and allow to dry and then fill rest of hull to get better surface to apply 2nd planking and not having to apply too much filler to sand and also let deeper places set up better

[dgbot]

That would be the prudent thing to do.

David B

[EJ_L]

As David says, yes, that is the best thing to do. The smoother, straighter and more level you can make the first layer the better the 2nd planking will be. The goal is to not have to use any filler on the 2nd planking.

 

As to wood selections, check out Crown Timberyard. They are listed in the sponsors section on the front page. I have ordered from them a couple times now and have had great service. I highly recommend them and the will do custom orders of both size and wood species.

[BrianD2112]

I saw a link to Crown Timberyard in an article here but is closed till Nov 2 for maintenance. I will check it out b4 ordering.

I have been reading up on deck planking and came across 2 methods so any input would be appreciated. I read that that there should be no less than two rows of planks between places where two plank ends meet. One method in a book says to use two sizes of planks such as 80 mm and 40 mm and rotate to achieve this. Another article here says to use different starting points(3-4) for top of first planks and keep rotating.

[EJ_L]

On planking layout there can be variances between the different countries and eras of the ship. If you are wanting to get historically accurate then you will need to do research on your ship to see what the building practices were during that time of construction by that country.

 

As for a quick and simple answer that will work for most builds, you are on the right track. The following layout will work on a P.O.B. build like the one you are doing. Butt joint, three strakes then another butt joint. Just keep moving your butt joints down one frame on each strake and the fourth strake bring the butt joints back into alignment. A simple way to achieve this is to measure the planks for 4 frame spaces. Split the first frame so two planks can butt together on it, span the next two frames and split the 4th for another butt joint. Then on the next strake up shift the first plank one frame forward and by the time you are on the 4th strake your butt joints will be back in alignment.

 

No, this is not 100% to scale nor fully accurate construction but, it will allow you to get the fundamental planking practices down and will create a very good planking layout that will be in the correct ball park for planking practices.

[BrianD2112]

OK I have questions about timber. I am hoping to order my timber tomorrow when Crown Timberyard is open. I am ordering timber for hull planking and extra wood for wales, decor and furniture which is darker than hull planking. Looking at the database of wood for ships, I think hull planking is mahogany and other darker wood is Oak. Is that correct? Can you tell by my Picts what wood is hull planking. E.J. Do you think .5 mm planks is better than 1 mm, it would seem to me but I am a noob.

[EJ_L]

My guess is that mahogany is what you want to use for a darker hull color. That is what I used on my current build and was very happy with it. I have not used oak on a model nor do i think many have. The grain pattern in oak would not look very good on a scale model. You want to try to stick with woods with little grain pattern as the grain looks very out of place on a model. You can really use any wood you want. There are no rules only suggestions. My current build has I think 6 or 7 different wood species on it. When you are using the woods natural character instead of paint it is common to have many different types to get all the various color details.

 

As for thickness, both layers of my hull are 1mm thick planks. I do have some .5mm but that is mostly on trim. If you get to thin, you have nothing to sand without going completely through the wood. If you are planing on making furniture as well then I would get a variety in a few different thicknesses.

Edited November 1, 2016 by EJ_L