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Thanks guys.  I don't think I will resort to the paint brush at this scale Carl.  The rim is only 1mm wide and 12mm in diameter; I think the chances of error due to shaky hands is too great.  A challenge is one thing; ability is a whole different matter ;):)

 

I think I have to agree Eberhard, decals sound the best way to go.  Off to find some decal paper.

 

Thanks for the feedback on the glazes; I was on the right track :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Another small update:

I have progressed the wheel and standard a little further having painted the brass wheel.  The paint to the eye looks smooth but it is very uneven when photographer so close up (noting the rim is only 1mm wide, and the wheel 14mm tip to tip).  The paint is burnt sienna acrylic with a glaze made from varnish and wood stain.  It looks pretty close to the wod used in the standard.

 

One of the photos also shows all the parts ready to be assembled; including some decals I made.  The decals were a dismal failure though as against the brown they just don't show up.  I think I will have to paint the brass plates onto the rim of the wheel after all :(  With my shaky hands they won't look too flash!  Work in progress so to speak.  I am not sure yet whether to try and further smooth the paint on the wheel; as i said - to the eye it looks OK. 

 

5b3f3812b9b20_Wheelandstandardparts.thumb.JPG.334e31f6f1a54b75c28184ccb61a3a2f.JPG  5b3f381579344_Wheelpaintedwood.thumb.JPG.adb1ab04ac4d6977f627e5df9480cde1.JPG

 

In the meantime the main companion has been completed; including the ironwork supporting the crutch for the main boom. I have included a close up extract from the quarterdeck photo as a comparison for what we have made.  The legs supporting the crutch look a little oversize but these are less than 1mm diameter so near impossible for my fat hands to get smaller unfortunately - again the close-up photography makes it look rougher than it looks to the eye (the ironwork).

 

5b3f37fed96c7_MainCompanionnoironwork.thumb.JPG.a5ef84311421a9d3bf950effaf50d660.JPG  5b3f380801457_MainCompanionwithironwork2.thumb.JPG.67872c97af89da6c7cba579f0d6fa6e1.JPG

5b3f38883a22c_VictoriaCompanion.thumb.jpg.879911f47ecf0807b3241629000149fc.jpg

 

 

cheers

 

Pat

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... I see another challenge, the nice round Victorian skylight with its carpentry and brass protective bars ;)  Have you tackled that already ?  If not, I tend to fashion such things from solid acrylic glass with applications in either etched brass or styrene. Styrene can be cemented (or rather welded) onto acrylic glass with methylene chloride without leaving traces.

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Thanks for the comments Eberhard, Carl and Steven, and for the likes folks - appreciated.

 

Actually -- I had given some thought to the circular skylights Eberhard, and they have me cowering in the corner with the thought of attacking these.  The current plan is to use an acrylic/perspex rod shaped on the lathe as the core then add a wood veneer to the side (with cutouts) and PE grills.  Not sure yet whether to use a long strip for the side grills and put that on the inside of the veneer or attempt to put them on individually - at this scale that is a scary thought :)  The upper conical grill will be drawn up and made as PE in a fan shape that will allow it to form the cone when rolled.

 

In foreseeing the need, I recently made enquiries, including on MSW, for someone that does PE.  As this will be a small job, I am not sure the costs would warrant third party development etc so I am looking at trying this myself sometime in the future (PE that is).

 

Overnight I decided to have another go at the decals to see what I can get out of it.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Hi Druxey and many thanks for looking in and your suggestion.  Unfortunately, as shown in my less than adequate drawing below, the wheel did not have a brass ring on the rim, but rather a series of plates as evidenced in the photo (this is a highly zoomed extract of a photo of some of the Officers and Crew on the Quarterdeck taken in 1868).  The drawing shows the graphic I have used for my decals also.

 

I will remember that technique as for my Endeavour I used a twin blade cutter (knife) in a compass to cut some thin brass (shim) which proved problematic.

 

To explain the shape of the standard I have adopted, I based the overall shape on the requirement to have a carving of the coat of arms carved into it.  This is the most probable shape that serves and is similar to the standard as shown in a contemporary model of a wheel and standard held by the NMM.  Unfortunately the standard cannot be made out in the photo.

 

I have bit the bullet so to speak and removed the old paint from the wheel and repainted it so that I have a new flat surface.  I will have one more go at the decas before giving up on them.

 

cheers

 

Pat

 

5b415d2b40d02_StgWheel.thumb.jpg.eb5ab5b065bd05fecdedfd9eeb15047a.jpg

5b415da273202_HelmsmanHMCSSVictoria(resized).thumb.jpg.e63aa403d8fd334a76e403d324dfd2b4.jpg

 

Edited by BANYAN

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Another small update.  After retrying the decals I had two problem; first the colour of the decals just do not show up against the brown (a known issue apparently but I thought I would try), and after trying that I found the wheel had 'roughened' again.  I put the latter issue down to using the water on acrylic paint/gloss when trying to apply the decals.  The photo show the wheel having been redone - please remember the rim is only 1mm wide and 12mm in diameter (OD).

 

5b41ab92f17c8_WheelRedone.thumb.JPG.e442c949ca82c7823199c8182f074296.JPG

 

I have decided that even PE will be difficult at this scale (to etch that is) so we have decided to leave this small detail off.  i think there is enough detail to make the steering arrangement look OK?  Yep - I know - a real 'cop out'.  If I get time I may revisit this when I do the PE for the brass work on the skylights.

 

The following photos show the companing and steering position dry fitted.  In hindsight, I think we opted for a slightly too large rear bench but it will have flag lockers fitted on top of it either side of the wheel and we needed sufficient width to allow for that.  The red 'pull' cord is for igniting the powder via the adapted gunlock on the Common Service Lifebuoy on the transom - this then provided the smoke and/or the flare (night) in the upper pan of the lifebuoy.  nThe black handle is a 'twist to release' for the lifebuoy.  In later times, these two controls were combined.

 

5b41ab9b42369_QuarterdeckTopLeftView.thumb.JPG.bc5fa4b2d4c030f9eb9c254fdcc0e1e0.JPG  5b41aba338097_QuarterdeckTopLeftView2.thumb.JPG.ecf9f2871df7194ed3daf4a578f2af3a.JPG

5b41abac2a469_QuarterdeckTopView.thumb.JPG.28ab9b9aaa85d3b4a1ecee1494365785.JPG

 

One remaining issue is to determine what the most probable configuration for the mizzen boom crutch.  The boom extends beyond the transom, and in the photograph of the crew on the quarterdeck, it shows the boom, when in its stowed position, lies to 'port' of the ensign staff.  Unfortunately, as can be seen from the earlier photo of the wheel, it is impossible to make out the configuration of the crutch support.  At the moment I am tempted to have it secured to the transom using the roughtree timber immediately to the left of the centreline and using the back edge of the bench as one of the vertical supports (a hole drilled in the bench).  What I cannot decide for this configuration, is whether any supporting struts would have been required or simply a supporting upper bracket near the top of the roughtree timber.  The next outboard roughtree timber (with the notch in the rail) is for one of the rear davit arms.

 

An alternative is have the crutch with tripod style support configuration, free standing in front of the bench but I think that would be in the way of the helm (not that the crutch would be there when the wheel was manned).  The issue with the first configuration is that the crutch would be in the way of working the boat; but, again the boom, and therefore the crutch, would have had to be moved out of the way before working the boat anyway.

 

Opinions and suggestions eagerly sought :)

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Pat, it just came to my mind that there are also brass-pigmented high-quality felt-tip pens of different sizes on the market. Perhaps by disciplined application of 'dots' you can build up the various brass plates etc. on the wheel's rim. Might be easier then using a brush.

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Thanks for all the likes, and for the encouraging comments Marty and Eberhard.

 

That's a great idea Eberhard, I'll have a poke around online to see if I can find one of those pens - my shaky hands are the real problem as 'discipline' will really be the operative word here :).  

 

When I looked at the photo the 'scale ratios' of the companion to the wheel assembly looked wrong.  The wheel size is correct but it appeared too low.  A prolonged discussion with an engineering friend isolated the issue.  I had been working on the assumption that the rapson slide tiller arrangement was fitted to the underside of the weather deck.  However, a closer examination of the patent drawings shows it was actually above deck and the rudder head penetrated above deck also.  We are now reasonably sure the wheel assembly would have sat on top of a closed in 'box' arrangement that contained the rapson slide and pulleys etc; which would then raise the wheel assembly to the height suggested in the photo posted earlier. 

 

This arrangement would then allow the control rods for the propeller (clutch, pitch and locking)  to rise to the upper deck also (confirmed by actual drawing of the propeller fit) whereas I had been frustrated with how to 'swing' the tiller arm without impacting these rods.  Furthermore, it now allows the fitting of 'Lang's' emergency tiller arm abaft the rudder head without impact on its length as had been the issue by trying to fit into the space/ void below deck - a double win all round :)  A drawing will follow.  Surprising how eventually these issues resolve with a persistent pursuit aided by visual prototyping.

 

cheers

 

Pat 

Edited by BANYAN

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Doing these investigations and finding out how things work(ed) is one of the most satisfying aspects in shipmodel building ... the second half of the 19th is particularly interesting in this respect with all the techonological revolutions and those 'patent' thingies.

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I am impressed by the amount of time that you are all putting into this group model with regard to getting details that are basically the same size as a part in a tiny jeweled Swiss watch.

Lovely work. I think that at the scale you are working with Eberhard's Idea of the pen and some dots would give the visual impression that you are looking for, with the human eye filling in the details.

 

Michael

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ship's wheel and companionway look really sweet Pat.   I have the same problem with my decal maker......it basically boils down to a transparency issue.   using clear decal paper makes it worse,  since there is no 'backing' to base the decal.   most decals use a background to build up the decal image,  stacking the colors up in layers.   ink jet printers cannot print white,  which is a crucial back ground color.  in spectrum,  it would be easier to use the decal over a lighter color,  than a darker color....the DPI is so low,  the darker color absorbs it,  and it disappears.  darker color {foreground} decals are more successful,  but one still needs the lighter background color for it to really stand out.   the best decals I made to date with this decal program I have,  has to be the Andrea Gail........I used white decal paper,  and changed the foreground color to match the hull color -->Emerald Green over white.   decal making is a constant experiment.  ;) 

 

PE can be found.....it will be a search though to find the pieces you will need........1:350 would be your best bet.  Wefalck has a good idea....I've used paint pens before.  I'm sure you could figure a way to steady your hand as you do the markings.

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Thanks again for all those that have looked in and 'liked' my latest posts - much appreciated.

 

You're right with that aspect of modelling Eberhard.  As frustrating as researching is at times, there is much satisfaction when you resolve such issues.

 

Very many thanks for your kind comments Michael; noting your own work these comments are much valued.

 

Thanks Denis; appreciate your suggestions and the problem you describe is exactly the issue I am experiencing.  I have found some good "waterslide" superthin decal paper which is laser printer compatible so I can use TurboCAD to draw up the decals and print them.  Is that what you mean by 'decal program'?

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

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Pat, I asked a friend of mine (seriously into plastic kit modelling) about the ship's wheel brass problem to see if he has any clue about replicating brass.  His suggestion is to create a self adhesive vinyl mask using a silhouette cutter or other computer controlled cutter, spray the plates on using Mr. Surfacer and then a brass paint.  The reservation being that the detail may be too small for a cutting head to work properly? 

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Thanks for looking in and the suggestion Marty; much appreciated.  Unfortunately, when I asked about vinyl masks or vinyl decals the first question was - how small???  :)  the dots are about .5mm and the plates .8 x .6 so much too small unfortunately.  I might reinvestigate that though as I was able to print decals.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Hi folks, another update; not much but some progress.  I am being slowed b research at the moment.

 

The steering platform is now complete and fitted over an inverted 'A' Frame  - the rapson slide (not shown) slides across under the platform between the legs of the frame at the position of the cable drum.  

1632362972_SteeringPlatform.thumb.JPG.263a21719d460e0da6b7aef39b73f702.JPG

2138980451_ViewfromAft.thumb.JPG.6532d84f00429b6d78c625abe44d6915.JPG  

The steering compass cabinet is complete but just dry fitted.  The compass cover (pewter aftermarket part cut from its pedestal) is also only dry fitted.  If we use this it will be painted brass.  We are trying to make this by 'spinning' on a lathe to get the base form.

 

The hammock platform around the funnel has now been completed.  This is only 11mm high to give some idea of size so this is a 'close-up' which shows all the 'detail' not visible to the naked eye :)  As best as I can determine, there was only an outer rail.  the hammocks are stacked vertically and I assumed some are lashed to the rails for stability?  An inner ring would not work due to space and access issues.   When the original photo is zoomed right in, the stanchions and 4 rails are very clear.  I have used black cotton in-lieu of wire for the rails as, at this scale it was impossible to keep the shape of the 0.4mm wire without deformation as I bent it around and through the stanchion holes.  The stanchions are after-market.

1724837942_SteamWhistleinplace2.thumb.JPG.94a5e94159d900349b9fb8bff12abfb7.JPG  1094354197_StokeHoleVentilationandHammockRailsFront.thumb.JPG.d9ef49e2665963fe22cd58e1123779da.JPG    1466595260_HammockStowage.jpg.f542e30e8d567de3863fb9db974f983d.jpg

The companion has also been fitted in place.

 

I have also made a steam whistle (a little early for a steam horn which did not appear for another decade or so (as best I can determine).  This was made from a tube with a rounded solid upper plug, and a bit of rod rounded and shaped to accept the actuator handle at one end - this was drilled through to accept the whistle and is intended to represent the steam cock valve.  The spigot at the base is a locating pin. The photo of the whistle itself shows the item before cleaning and some polishing - this will be left brass.  The ruler in the photo is in mm.

 

1973524037_SteamWhistle2.thumb.JPG.e7c56a4c40a1b5394b4bb733d5d4a9de.JPG

cheers

 

Pat

 

Edited by BANYAN

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That is some incredible detail Pat. I am awe struck, especially when I look at the railings ... I know what it is like in PE, so I know how difficult this must have been to create ... the gratings, handles ... I am dumb founded

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Thanks to all for the likes and for looking in, and kind comments Carl, John and Druxey; much appreciate the feedback and encouragement.

 

Druxey, 4 turns if you include the in and out feed (or is that 3 total :) ).   I haven't been able to determine if the 4 turns were 4 complete with or without feed lines - I have gone with 4 wraps of the cable.  According to the patent description this is correct as being direct acting on the tiller using the slide mechanism of the Rapson design, this required much less effort and also resulted in 'positive' control of the wheel. 

 

I would appreciate any further feedback if anyone has better information.  I will try to find that info and post again and perhaps a better 'interpretation' of the info could be made?  The problem is that there is precious little information available about these types of equipment.  the only model of a Rapson slide I have found is in the Dutch Rijksmuseum and it only shows the tiller with partial slide attached  - no ropes / cable etc.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Edited by BANYAN

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Hi Ed, many thanks for your encouragement and comments.

 

Druxey; appreciate your earlier comment/question which made me go back and double check my work.  These sort of question is much valued to ensure accuracy of the detail.  The following is from the description provided by Rapson when he applied for his Patent.

"... c,c is the tiller-rope or chain, which is affixed to the sliding frame and socket, d,d passes over the guide pulleys, f, f and is affixed to, or takes three or four turns around, the barrel carried by the axis of the steering wheel.  ..."

 

From this I have assumed three or four complete turns but I am not sure this means three full turns plus the entry/departure wraps or includes them?  I am still to estable whether a rope or chain tiller rope would have been more likely in Victoria.  Noting she is only a 'sloop' despite being termed a Gun Despatch Vessel, I am also 'currently' assuming that rope was adequate due to her size - but that is a BIG assumption - the relatively short iron tiller may have needed greater force and thereby a stronger 'rope' :)  Any further guidance or suggestions would be most appreciated.

 

The eagle eyed will also notice that I have slightly offset the bolts used for the various components of the wheel platform assembly - this was based on the principle of avoiding drilling anything in straight lines (per beam) to minimise any weakness in the timbers.  I hope this is a correct assumption on my part?

 

cheers

 

Pat

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