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HM Cutter Mermaid 1817 by Cabbie - Modellers Shipyard - Scale 1:48


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Now for the deck layout and Transom

Hey Rick are you about. Is that a stove sitting on the deck in this drawing you put up.

Did it have one permanently? And it appears it had a different shape transom at some stage, would

it have been altered before King took over?

A couple of models i have found are showing it with a more rounded transom with extending out

out at the sides wider than the boat.

https://artsandculture.google.com/asset/scale-model-of-hm-cutter-mermaid/gAEIhta_S2f-jA?ms={"x"%3A0.5864775556678301%2C"y"%3A0.6110940615653034%2C"z"%3A10%2C"size"%3A{"width"%3A1.865686274509804%2C"height"%3A0.6941176470588235}}

http://collections.anmm.gov.au/en/objects/163203/scale-model-of-hm-cutter-mermaid;jsessionid=C2AC6BE22CE1C14A5A225A2E91DFCA10

 

And i see that it was copper plated as well, don't know if i will do that.

Cheers Chris

 

a3464059h.jpg.opt938x674o0,0s938x674.jpg

Edited by Cabbie
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Deck looks good Chris. I also do not know how correct this is, but, looks the goods. Just don't muck up the simple sanding job! I have also sworn off 0.5mm planking or using anything under 1mm. For something different, I scraped my last 0.5mm deck with a 1" wide wood chisel. No going back, a much better result.

 

Cheers,

Martin

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Howdy Martin

Yes no more thin crap, as you say one mm or more.

There is still a bit of contact glue to clean off, will do that first with abs glue cleaner, very carefully,

then scrape.

Going back to the transom the drawing here

https://antiqueprintmaproom.com/p-p-king-in-h-m-cutter-quot-mermaid-quot-meets-with-the-malay-fleet-april-1818

seems to show the wider transom, assuming that is the Mermaid at the front.

Hooroo Chris

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14 hours ago, Cabbie said:

Is that a stove sitting on the deck in this drawing you put up.

Did it have one permanently? And it appears it had a different shape transom at some stage, would

it have been altered before King took over?

General opinion is that "yes" that is a stove, probably brought up from below decks not as a permanent fixture, situated there it would really interfere with the sails. First illustration of a good Aussie barbeque!  As for the transom shape I've gone with the slim-line version. I believe that someone has misread the print you've quoted. If you look closely it is more likely that what appears to be transom is in fact the bows of a launch hanging from the davits at the stern. That wider transom doesn't appear on any other cutters I've seen from that period.

 

Rick

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Chris,

 

I've also struggled a bit with the transom. Have you looked at other images from King's sketchbook? It never seems to look exactly the same way twice. I do some field sketching and I know that 3/4 views of curved objects in perspective can be tricky. I think King had a little trouble capturing it consistently. Of all the images in his journal, the one from Careening Bay (upper left in the attached image) is the one I'm going for (with some artistic license). It mostly involved rounding down the upper edge. I think the transom the kit comes with it too "square" (even though the corners are rounded). I've debated whether it's just a bit wider than the bulwarks at the stern, but in the image link you posted I think I agree with Rick that it may be the launch. If it's a bit wider, I don't think it would be quite that much. The model in the Australian National Maritime Museum does have a wider transom though:

 

http://collections.anmm.gov.au/en/objects/details/163203/scale-model-of-hm-cutter-mermaid;jsessionid=DFEB011276CA4734E62564B5C7E6B7FA?ctx=612c42a7-1b8c-43d9-b603-3d8a4c006c21&idx=0

 

 

James

5-Screen Shot 2018-09-25 at 7.45.36 PM.png

Edited by JamesBhm
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Hi James thanks for the drawings

I think the transom in this drawing does show the side extension to the transom.

There does seem to be a fair bit of variety,

but i think I will stick to the conventional look but make it a bit rounder.

https://antiqueprintmaproom.com/p-p-king-in-h-m-cutter-quot-mermaid-quot-meets-with-the-malay-fleet-april-1818

Mermaid transom.JPG

Edited by Cabbie
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13 hours ago, Cabbie said:

I think the transom in this drawing does show the side extension to the transom.

Chris, I actually JUST took a closer look at that image (it was sitting on my computer desktop) and was coming back here to post that you're absolutely right. I had missed that in my earlier looks, although this was done by a later artist and I wonder where he got that. He may have been doing the same guesswork we're doing based on King's sketches. This is one reason I'm enjoying my Mermaid build. It would be nice to have more definitive answers on some things, but I enjoy the historical detective work with other builders. 

Edited by JamesBhm
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Yes James, we will never know whether an after the fact artist is just displaying

a bit of artistic license or actually knows something, but for me i will stick with convention and

 probably leave the keel as it is. Nearly sorted my deck layout, just need to decide on the gun ports.

Thanks Chris

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I am bucking the trend on my Mermaid. I have decided to glue on the 4 x 2 walnut strips on top of the bulwarks.

When i looked at the height of the bulwarks down to the deck trim timber there wasn't enough space to fit the gun ports in comfortably.

Though, the walnut is the same thickness as the ply bulwark, going to be too hard to match it in with the planking so

I will plank over it and then add a capping strip on top. That will leave a total bulwark height of about 950 mm which

I don't think is too high (I hope). Planning on making the capping, stem, keel and, stern post and rudder using some Kauri that

I have used on my endeavour, and use the supplied mahogany 2nd planking strips.

 

 

 

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Edited by Cabbie
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  • 3 weeks later...

Oh dear I think I will change my name to "Slow Going" or something like that.

Though I have a bit done, framed the gun ports and planked the inside starboard bulwark.

I ditched the 3 by 2 walnut strip supplied with the kit for the deck trim and used some

3 by 1 that i had, the 3 by 2 just looked too big. The last pic is showing how the keel clamp helps to hold the

boat to do the inside planks.

Cheers Chris

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Edited by Cabbie
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thanks rick & B.E. the skills are getting better, I hadn't realized how complicated this ship and model

building caper is, before i started. Too many skills to learn and knowledge to gain, probably never catch up to

builders like yourselves.

 

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2 hours ago, Cabbie said:

probably never catch up to

builders like yourselves.

Of course you will, it's just a matter of hanging in and practicing. You will also learn quickly how to strip errors down and rebuild or otherwise disguise mistakes!!

 

Rick

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A question for the wise and knowledgeable

On the pic attached, below the walnut strip is according to the plans where the whales

are to be placed, by the measurements given from the plans.

The pics from the plans show them under the ports                             

Is it ok for them to be cut either side of the gun ports.

Or should they be under, if they were to be under they would probably bend around under the transom too much.

Maybe I messed up the height of the ports.

What would be the correct technique?
Thanks Chris

 

 

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Edited by Cabbie
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The light colored wood band seen in your box art, would be the wales I believe..

 

 

 

Wales.png

Edited by Gregory

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

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10 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

To my eye Chris, the wales in that position look too high, and they would never be cut between gun ports, they were an important element to maintain the rigidity of the hull.

It was not unusual for the wale to curve a little at the round of the hull at the stern; this is not the case with Cheerful, but was in the case of Pegasus.

 

B.E.

 

Thanks BE That is what I was thinking, just wouldn't be correct.

Yes Gregory the whale are the lighter colored strip which I have run out of.

When i did the deck it looked like I wouldn't have enough, that's why the racing stripes made an appearance.

I have placed a few test strips and it

doesn't seem to be curving too much under the transom, not enough

anyway to alter the gun port height.😨

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Edited by Cabbie
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Chris,

 

I've also struggled a bit with this and certainly don't have a clear answer. Based on some of King's drawings, the ports do cross the wales (although the lower timber of the whale would be unbroken) -- but his drawings are not consistent. I haven't been able to figure out how to have the ports between the two whale timbers while keeping other proportions correct (level of the deck, position of the channels). I found at least one general reference to gunports indicating that they might cross the wale. The channels in the kit directions also appear to be placed wrong.  They are below the wales, whereas in King's drawings they're above. If the whale is too far down, the channels are halfway down the full of the ship! My placement of the wales will be two planks down form the rail, with the channel placed below. That will allow for the gunports to be about as they're pictured in King's drawing "at anchor" and Coepang drawings (but not consistent with the Careening Bay and Rockingham Bay pics). They'll be crossing the wale, but it seems like there's no easy win. 

 

James

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Edited by JamesBhm
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Thanks for the heads up with the chanels, totally forgot about them, another thing

to check before I start planking.

And for the gun port drawings, i have been wondering about how they are meant to be done properly.

Cheers Chris

 

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Discovered something else this evening, the transom is not tall enough.

There also is a 2mm thick cap rail to be put on. I will have to add about

12mm in height. I will cut it back to the plank join at the top of the walnut strip

and add on another piece of ply from an off cut.

Is this the correct way for the davits to sit? I have seen

a couple of models with the timber sitting the other way and increasing in height.

Thanks Chris

 

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Edited by Cabbie
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Hunting around the net tonight I found this site with the picture below of a cutter and thought

it looked pretty close to our subject. Though it is meant to be a bit later built and French.

From Here,     https://wiki.eanswers.net/en/Cutter_(boat)

It seemed to look a lot like the pic of Mermaid beached at Careening Bay.

From Here  https://www.nla.gov.au/blogs/behind-the-scenes/2016/09/28/swallowed-by-the-sea-the-mermaid

And similar to last from post 61

 

Cutter.JPG

547143457_a3464059h.jpg.opt938x674o00s938x674.jpg.e5e3cda75d3cf20bd39caba2617a2cd2.jpg

Beached at careening Bay.JPG

Edited by Cabbie
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That's pretty much how my davits sit. The angle in them should end up such that they are parallel aft of the transom. I did away with the kit ones and crafted my own as I really hated the use of ply everywhere. One comment on the last pic at Careening bay. Is it an original King sketch or do I read the left hand note on it as saying "From a sketch by King" ? If the latter I'd not rely on it as much as an original King sketch.

 

Rick

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View at the Encampment in Careening Bay, Where the Mermaid Was Repaired. From a Sketch by P.P. King (London: John Murray, May 1825), nla.obj-136063558 

I was just thinking of it in terms of seeing another model that looks something like

what we are trying to build.

Chris

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Good morning to all, thanks for looking in and the likes, much appreciated.

I am still trying to sort out where to put the wales, channels, wale trim strips.

Does it matter if the channels sit on the wales?, been hunting around but seems hard to find.

 

And a big Hi to you Don, do you have any projects going at the moment.

It must be still cold and white over there, we need rain here, very dry and dusty all over.

Its going to be a bad drought if it doesn't rain soon.

Hooroo Chris

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Chris,

 

Glad there are a couple of us to discuss this. I've been worried I'm overthinking things or missing something obvious. The careening bay pic you posted is almost identical to King's original. The confusing part of his drawings is that of the four sketches that clearly show the gunports, two show them completely within the "stripe" of the wale and two show them halfway overlapping. I've found images of other ships both ways, although crossing the wale seems less common. I think for the Mermaid, having the ports fully within the wale would either require the wale to be way too high or for guns to sit below the level of the deck. I found an example of a gunport straddling the wale in "Historic Ship Models" by Wolfram zu Mondfeld (below, labeled as "crossing the wale, 1600-1830). For me, the gunport straddling the wale makes the most sense (although certainly wouldn't argue with other interpretations). I'm shooting for the gunport as pictured. Rick has also mentioned that these could just be painted on fake gunports that don't have to line up with the deck, so we could be jousting with windmills! 

 

Also...just to add to the fun...the transom davits don't appear in all of the drawings. Would those have been removable or did King just omit them for simplicity?

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Edited by JamesBhm
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Hey Chris, how the heck are you? Good to see you back!! I have been a little absent myself as of late so not much new to report. I have started a Ragusian Galley which I have not started a log yet for, but I am thinking of doing so.

The snow has been gone here now for about two weeks and the fire bans are on already!!! Very dry here also.

 As for your channels when you say "on the wales" do you mean the top edge of the wales? If so that is quite common.

Take Care Bud

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