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HMS Fly by probablynot - Victory Models - Scale 1:64 - with upgrade kit


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I've got the kit.  And the upgrade kit.
Here they are:

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It might be a few days before I actually start pulling bits out of the box with a serious intention of starting work.  I still have some work to do on my Silhouet build.  Also, my workshop is still rather less accessible than I'd like it to be.  I'm hoping that will change pretty soon though.

I'm intrigued by the 'Pegasus-versus-Fly' thing.
I had a look through MSW's entire list of kit-build logs.  Of course it only covers 4 years (since the disastrous Crash of 2013), so I only had to scan through 75 pages.  But I found eight build logs for HMS Fly, and sixteen for HMS Pegasus.

Bearing in mind the similarity between the two ships (and the two kits) I wonder why there has been such a strong preference for the Pegasus?    They're both Swan class ships.  The Pegasus kit costs a lot more than the Fly kit plus the upgrade.

Both kits have their good points.  Both have their problems.  Maybe it's the fact that the Pegasus kit includes copper-bottoming?  But to be honest the coppering doesn't appeal to me much.  I like natural wood.  Not sure (at this early stage) whether I'll want to paint the hull as in the picture on the box, or varnish it.

Of the eight HMS Fly build logs that I found, two (by DiKri and CCoyle) were pictures-only, re-created back in 2013 from build logs lost when MSW-1 crashed.
Three (by Padeen, Brian100 and pnevrin) were abandoned in very short time.
Another, by Aliluke, was discontinued in Aug 2016 after he'd put in about three years' work.
The other two - by MartinW and dfell - are still current.  You can bet your life I'll be plundering them for help and advice once I get started.
Oh, and I expect I'll also be looking at the current Pegasus build logs too!

 

Give me a day or two, and I'll open the box(es) and post pictures of what they contain.
At this stage, and after a very quick look, I have to say I'm not impressed by the quality of the wood strips.  I predict a fair bit of substitution and scratch-building once I get going...

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Welcome another Swan Man!!  You will have a lovely time with this kit.

 

I have worked on both.  The kits are identical basically.  I think that the main Pegasus advantage is the photo -etched bits - the Fly stern window castings are very lumpy in comparison. There is a difference in the keel and bulkhead materials Fly - ply - Pegasus MDF .

 

All the Pegasus thinner ply I have had was very very poor  - the Fly ply is good and the one piece main deck is infinitely preferable.  Somewhere I think I posted a more detailed comparison and I also think I have some of my Fly log which got lost in the big crash.

I shall have a dig

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Welcome, everyone!
There's beer in the fridge at the back, biscuits and chocolate in the box on the top.  Help yourselves!
Teetotallers and slimmers will have to provide their own refreshments.
If any newcomers turn up, there are still a few seats available back there between the bandsaw and the bench drill.

I had my first foray into the Big Box this evening.
I've changed my mind about the quality of the strip wood provided.  On closer inspection it doesn't look at all bad.  The dowels for the masts and spars look particularly good.
However, I was surprised to find that the main framework (false keel and bulkheads) is mdf.  I got the impression that Victory/Amati had only done that to the Pegasus kit.  I've not had to deal with mdf in a kit build before, but I don't suppose it will be a problem. It feels much heavier than the equivalent in plywood would have been, but I expect it'll take planking nails and woodworking glue without complaining.

12 (twelve) sheets of plans.  Eloquent-looking instructions, and the English doesn't look like too bad a translation from the Italian.

Lots of very precise-looking photo-etched brass fittings that, in other kits, would presumably have been bent brass wire or nasty castings.  And I haven't even dared to look in detail at the ones in the upgrade kit yet!

All in all, I feel comfortable with what I've found.  So far.  I'll reserve judgment on the cannons and their carriages - I get the impression that the experts here don't think much of the ones that come with the kit.

I'm looking forward to starting on this.  Maybe there will have to be some measure of overlap with my - almost finished - build of the Silhouet.

 

post-25-0-95347700-1486071004_thumb.jpg

 

Ah.  Sorry.  I think I left the photo-etched parts out of the picture!

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Brian,

 

Now is the time to get that valid reason ... :P;)

 

Looks promising. The only thing you should take into account with mdf, are the sides which are cut. If you need to paint those, you'll better paint it first with very diluted paint or get a sealant for it, because it is rather awkward to get those covered properly

 

I'll get that spot underneath the bandsaw ... you might have enlarged your shed whilst adding a new conservatory ... ;)

 

Cheers

Edited by cog
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Ah ha = - I suspected that the Fly kits would eventually move to MDF as the Pegasus ones are - since the bits are identical !

 

Now two important checks - do you have the one piece 1mm ply deck  - good thing much better than the two piece Pegasus deck and is the I mm ply all solid faced rather than the rubbish "chip faced" stuff thats seen in Pegasus

This bit of my log shows the problems if you have the rubbish stuff  http://modelshipworld.com/index.php/topic/420-hms-pegasus-by-simonthepieman-victory-models-164-started-by-spyglass/?p=4573

Edited by SpyGlass
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Steve, Derek, no fighting! The beer supply is a never-ending one. Result of my second wish when I found a magic lamp a few years ago ...

 

Spyglass, I took a look at the 1mm plywood stuff today. The plywood is faced with very nice (sapele?) and looks to be good quality. Not sure what you mean by one- or two- piece. There are two upper-deck pieces - the after-deck and the fore-deck. Are the Pegasus decks split down the middle or something?

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ok the Pegasus main deck ply deck comes in two halves split along the vessel length - you can see that in the refrence i gave above.

it suposed to make fitting the deck easier - it doesnt  two reasons - first its  hard to get the camber right working in two pieces and second there is this b*** Pegasus ply which fall to pieces as you are handling two pieces because all the cutouts for mast and hatches etc are exposed to damage

 

The Fly main deck is in one piece _ I think part 28 ? While Pegasus is in two parts also 28

 

Oooohhh - sapele !! - The ply sounds a bit maybe dodgy if it looks dark - examine the surface -  if one or more more faces seem to be made up of tiny "planks" then its is the rubbish stuff  Have a close look at my pics as referred above here. and you can see how its looks

 

post-905-0-86845100-1486211209_thumb.jpg

 

And here is s rather poor pic of the deck of one of my Fly pics showing smooth unbroken beech faced ply good stuff. 

 

 

And here is a bit of Pegasus quatrerdeck in the poor ply - note the surface and how the little pieces chips off between the cut outs

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Horrors  _  Just thought - I hope they havent changed to using the rubbish ply for the gunport strips which are on a separate ply piece and were beech faced in all my Fly and Pegasus stuff _ I just couldnt conceive of trying to make a good job of the curves of the port strip in the poor ply

 

So I suggest you compare your deck ply with my pics - maybe post your own and also enure that your Gunport strips at least are beech.

 

 

TIP you can bend the single piece deck sufficent to spring it in and out of the hull a few time to help get it all lined up

Edited by SpyGlass
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Ignore what I said in my previous post about the 1mm plywood for the decks.   :huh:  :rolleyes:    I only took a quick look, then afterwards I muddled up what I'd seen of the 1mm and 2mm ply!

I've now taken a proper look.

Here's a picture of the 1mm sheets:

 

post-25-0-10268500-1486315094_thumb.jpg

 

So  yes, the main deck is in two parts.

The 1mm ply is all birch-faced and pretty good quality.  Actually I'm satisfied - impressed, even - with the quality of all the plywood parts.

But I was surprised to see the keel and frames made from mdf.   Bearing in mind the box lid describes the contents as 'laser-cut wood', I wonder if Victory/Amati are transgressing any Trading Description legislation?  Does mdf count as 'wood'?

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That looks better - though I do prefer the one part deck - no lining up - no join to make sure is flat and easier to get the camber in.

Though the ply is better it may still be an idea to support the join line a bit more  - as some recent builders have done.

 

Oh a tip - label the thread spools NOW I dont know why Amati dont!

 

MDF v ply - no real difference - though two of my Fly ply keels were warped a bit the Pegy MDF one wasnt - DO NOT sand MDF carelessly , the glue in the dust makes it VERY nasty 

But I did find the ply layers handy for depth gauging and I made my basic keel rabbet by just popping off one layer a few mm up along the bottom edge

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At last!  The keel is laid!

 

After completing my 'Silhouet' build on Thursday, I spent yesterday morning making working copies of all the instructions.  Yesterday afternoon I sat and looked through them all, trying to make sure I'd know where to find all the bits and pieces in the kit, and checking to see if there were any early pitfalls I needed to avoid.

 

And today I was out there in the workshop, extracting keel, bulkheads and main-deck from the sheets of 5mm mdf.  The dry-fit went smoothly and quickly, so I thought OK, let's start gluing.

 

I attached all the bulkheads except 1, 2 and 13, and allowed them some drying/setting time.  Then I thought ah, I need to attach the walnut prow, keel and sternpost before I go any further.  So I did that.  And yes, I did remember to file down the mdf at the stern before attaching the sternpost (to create a rebate for the planking).

 

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I dry-fitted the deck again and up-ended the hull, to check for keel straightness.  Doesn't look too bad to me.

 

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And that's as far as I got before my mobile (cell-) phone rang, and the Admiral summoned me indoors to cook her dinner!

 

It's lovely to see you all here for this build.  I hope I don't disappoint you!

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Oh dear - I fear you are going to play total havoc with your stem, keel and stern post while you fair the bulkheads.

 

Its so much easier without them to get a nice sanding run. 

I am sure you are not as heavy handed as I - but would it be sacrilege to suggest you unstick those beautifully positioned pieces until you have faired the BHs?  Sorry !!!

 

Oh and its also easier to run a rabbet along stem and keel with them off.

 

I dont actually fix them until the first planking is done - just to save them from sanding damage

Edited by SpyGlass
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I admit I was of two minds about the walnut keel/stem/sternpost.

However, the instructions did say to add them at this stage.  And because the bulkheads come down to within a millimetre of the bottom of the false keel, I knew I'd need to have something there for my keel clamp to hold once the garboard strakes were on.

I did take the precaution of rough-fairing the bulkheads - at least, the ones at the stern.  I haven't yet fitted bulkheads 1 and 2 at the bows, but they'll be rough-sanded in due course. 

I've got tools that are well capable of tackling the finer sanding jobs without damaging adjacent timber.  The rebating job might be more of a problem, but if it turns out to be too difficult with the walnut bits in place I might consider taking them off when I get to that stage.

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