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Mayflower by RichieG - Model Shipways MS2020


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Richie, I'm going into my work room now to check on that bulwark piece.  I'm 99% sure both are on the template.  I did a full inventory on Sat. and found (to my utter surprise) that every single part is there and in the exact quantities they say (as for example 80 strips of wood).  I recall not finding the second bulwark piece for some time and then it became clear.  I will get back to you in a few minutes.  I also have some comments on the bulkhead former - rabbet - keel discussion.  So as I don't forget one of the remarks is that I found it impossible to bend the rabbet strip around the bow so I soaked it for an hour and put it on a jig I made up.  It should be dry this morning and fit on perfectly.  I can't imagine how you got your's around the curve with pre bending.  I'll include a picture of that and my jig as well.  Back in a minute or so.

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OK, I'm back.  Here is a pic of the template with both bulwarks on it, marked by a bit of sandpaper and tape.  Also a pic of the jig and rabbet strip drying.  Note that I decided to do the rabbet strip in two pieces of about 8 and 7 inches.  I may change that if I decide today to add the tapered piece separately.  But the piece that goes around the bow stem will remain as a 7" piece.

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Today, after breakfast, I was intending to glue the rabbet strip on in two pieces (as noted above).  I just took the curved piece off the jig and it fits nicely around the bow section.  Except that I made the mistake of not extending the curve more than half inch over the edge.  I should have made it at least 2 inches over.  With the amount of "spring back" in the wood, its going to be hard to get the last quarter inch to sit flat on the bulkhead former.  More overhang would have allowed me to bend it inward and given me more material to clamp/tie/tape/band it tight while the glue dries.  I'm thinking of doing it over but I'm loath to waste even this small amount of material without knowing if the pieces in the kit are exactly what's needed to finish the build or if Modelshipways allows for some breakage etc. when stocking the kit.

 

In further thinking, I'm going to go ahead and glue on the piece and do the best I can to snug it up tight to the former.  Any little gap can be filled with putty and the rabbet strip sanded back a tad bit.

 

Note that I'm finding it harder not easier to deal in fractions instead of metrics, especially with this small scale.  Its alot more accurate to talk about millimeters than it is small fractions (like for example 1/64th inch versus .4 mm).  Or maybe its just what I grew used to over the past 3+ years.

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Al, that's so weird, my 1/32" sheet has a totally different layout than yours, but I'm definitely missing the second bulwark. I'd better email shipways and see if they can throw that piece in with the others.

It looks like you went to a lot of trouble to attach the rabbet strip. All I did is soak it for a few minutes, and attach it with rubber band to the bulkhead former and let it dry, then glued it, also with the rubber bands to hold it in place. I agree that you probably should leave a little extension over the bow. I left it exactly flush, and it was a little tough to get the very tip to stick. But I'd wager a half inch overlap is plenty. Just put a rubber band over the tip of the rabbet strip, and the other end a few notches back on the bulkhead former. (My thinking is: why build a former for the rabbet strip, when the kit supplied the perfect former?)

PS if you find the very tip doesn't stick, and is tough to clamp, you can use CA glue just at the tip, and hold it in place for a minute, and that'll probably do it. That's what I did the first time, and it worked great.

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I guess my thinking is (was) that I didn't want to put a wet strip onto the former.  Its probably irrational but I thought of warping it or delaminating or anything like that.  But really you're probably right; so little water would wick from the wet strip onto the ply former to be negligible.  I do like working with a scroll saw though and especially in balsa wood.:)

 

All my household chores done I'm about to go glue down that rabbet piece.  Before I go I'll ask a few rather obvious questions:

1.  When you insert the bulkheads into the slots of the former, I assume you make sure to get them to "bottom out" as in they can go no further.  You do this regardless of where it leaves the top edge of the bulkhead in relation to the top edge of the former.  It seems like sometimes the notch should be just a bit deeper cause the two edges don't end up flush to each other.  It seems like this will affect the lay of the deck over it.  But still, I have to assume that the two notches must make contact and if there is any adjustment to be made later it will be to sand down the top edge of the bulkhead.  This also goes for the way bottom slivers of the bulkhead that wrap around the former.  It would be nice if after slotting the bulkhead into the former that the bottom of the bulkhead met the bottom of the former perfectly.  But sometimes it doesn't.  Sometimes there's a bit of an overhang.  Again I assume the best practice is to bottom out the notches and sand off the tips of the bulkheads if there is a wee bit of overhang.  Do you agree that all of the above is correct?  Insert the slots completely and worry about any adjustments afterward.

 

2.  I had not gone far enough into the instructions to realize that on p 15 we would be adding another keel strip.  This doesn't make it any clearer to me how the whole underside ends up looking and how the garboard plank will butt up against the keel.  (as an aside, you noted that this bulkhead former does not exist in real ships.  I've always looked at it somewhat differently.  On a real ship the keel has an internal section and the external part.  It is not bolted to the underside of the hull (well it is on modern fiberglass yachts).  The frames are bolted to the sides of the keel on the internal upper part of the keel and knees are put in there.  Then a floor is put down over the keel.  So I've always looked at this bulkhead former on models as the full keel even though usually another strip is added to the underside.)  But I digress -- my point is that I have no mental picture now of how the rabbet sits on the bulkhead former and then the keel on top of that (actually all being under each other not on top).  And then adding in how the hull planking is laid on, makes it even more confusing.  I'm going to go back and re-read a couple tutorials on how to lay the garboard plank and how to put in a real rabbet.  Maybe that will clear it up.  My confusion is mostly on how this added rabbet strip serves as a crotch for the garboard to sit in, which is (I've always thought) the one and only purpose to cutting a rabbet into the keel (or bulkhead former).

 

3.  In dry fitting my bulkheads on Sat. I noted that bulkheads C and CC sit about 3mm (sorry, I'm thinking metric -- about 1/8th inch) apart from each other.  Its my purpose of course to make sure that each one is glued in exactly at 90 degrees to the former.  Even so, with any small amount of warp to the bulkheads or wiggle to the part of the bulkhead above the notched area, that 3mm of separation could get compromised.  Now I don't know if that would make any difference to anything further down the line -- no moreso I would think than having either one of them slightly off true perpendicular to the former and therefore not perfectly parallel to each other -- but I've cut two little 3mmx3mm strips that I'm thinking of gluing inside the two bulkheads (like the baloney between the bread) so maintain that perfect 3mm separation.  Again, probably overkill in precautionary steps, but what the hay.  I'm noting this cause you might find there is a fair amount of wiggle at the top of these bulkheads that you may also not feel comfortable with.  Here's a pic of this.  On the right are the strips cut.  On the left they sit between the two bulkheads maintaining the 3mm separation.

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A lot of your post I'm going to let you check out your other sources as they are more fitting to the particular kit.

If you can make sure of the squareness of one of those bulkheads, then use the spacer to the next one, the distance is so small I don't think you could get too far off.

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Al, I have all of the parts (albeit somewhat warped, with new ones on the way), so let's compare how they fit together. But first, a few comments:

don't worry about getting a small amount of water on the plywood. I ran my bulkhead former under the sink and wrapped it in a wet paper towel prior to pressing it between flat surfaces. Granted, it didn't permanently solve the warp, but it also didn't do any harm at all to the piece. No delamination, no additional warpage, no downside at all. And, if you were still fearful, you could always put a piece of plastic wrap between the wet rabbet strip and the former while you let it dry.

As far as putting two bulkheads that are close together, I don't think you actually need the spacer that you made (although it's fine to use). All you have to do is put the bulkheads on one at a time. Put one on, and clamp a square to one or both sides. After it's dry, put the other one on, and there'll be plenty of space for a square on the far side. I think your best strategy for gluing the bulkheads is to start with the middle one (called 00), and once it's dry, you can put one on either side, with a square in front of the front one, and in back of the back one. There will be plenty of space, no matter how close the bulkheads are, as long as you glue them in sequence from the center out (or, from the front to the back, or from the back to the front. just don't work from the ends towards the middle, if you see my point...)

And, this is an important point that I don't think is universal for plank-on-bulkhead models, but is important for this one! It's in the instructions, but I want to remind you, because it's easy to forget. Put the OO bulkhead in it's spot, and all of the one's in front of that (bulkheads A-E) should have the laser etched side facing forward. All of the ones behind (bulkheads 1-5) should have the laser etched side facing back. This will become important later (especially for bulkhead 5).

 

As far as how the rabbet strip and rabbet allow for the planks to be laid more cleanly and easily, I might try to draw a sketch that shows my understanding of it (which I think is correct, but we'll see with more experience.) But first, I'm going to dry fit the bulkheads and tell you how they fit at the tops and bottoms.

 

Now, as far as how the bulkheads fit, the tops uniformly fit exactly at the top of the bulkhead former. The bottoms fit within a fraction of a millimeter to the bottom. Sometimes the bottom is not flat, and in those cases (near the bow) the center of the bulkhead is exactly at the bottom of the former, and the front is a little below, the back is a little above. All in all, you can tell that great care was taken in designing the parts; they fit each other pretty much perfectly everywhere. If some of your bulkheads don't seem to fit well, take a picture and let's check it out against mine.

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Thanks for all this info.  I agree with it all.  I tend to be a bit cautious when it comes to distorting or breaking parts.  On my first (and only other) build I didn't take enough precaution and wound up making tooooo many corrections.  Most of them were to do with framing.  That was plank on frame and believe me its a whole lot different and probably much less forgiving.

 

I got the rabbet on and the glue is dry now.  I'll take off the rubber bands (thanks for reminding me of that use of them) and clamps and do that tapering this morning.  Can you confirm that you do not taper to the back edge (where the stern post will fit) but just to the underside of the former/rabbet.  In doing a practice run on scrap I tapered the back as well and I'm glad I looked at it with a critical and forward looking eye. 

 

Then I will get started gluing in the bulkheads.  I may not be able to get back on the computer til later tonight cause we're having the carpets cleaned.  In fact I'm having to clear out of this room soon.  BTW, what time zone are you in?  I'm obviously west coast, pst.

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Al, look at page 2 (the first text page of the manual), and check out the picture in the upper right. First, make sure that you glued a rabbet strip not only along the bottom, but also a shorter one (about 1.25 inches) along the back of the former. Then note that the taper occurs between the curved bearding line, and the two straight lines which are at the bottom and back of the former. So you do need to taper to the bottom and to the back (so I think you are incorrect when you say "you do not taper to the back edge".) The taper is gradual when the bearding line is farthest from the rabbet strip, and steepest when they are close together. I made a little sketch that might make it a little more clear; it's kind of tough to describe in words. In the sketch, the base of the arrows are at full thickness, and the points are thinned by 3/64" on each side (for 3/32" total decrease in thickness, and down from 3/16" to 3/32"). The longer arrows have a more gradual taper, as they have a longer distance to decrease that 3/64".

Some kits have you carve a rabbet all along the bottom and up the bow of the former, but in this kit, I think we avoid that effort by gluing on the rabbet strip. Note, in the middle column of text on that same page, Chuck says "you do not need to taper the bulkhead former forward of this area." So stop tapering when the bearding line ends.

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Al, please create a separate build log of your Mayflower build for us. It's getting confusing to follow, at least for me. Looking forward to both your builds' progress and pictures. 

Steve

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Al, I think Tigersteve makes a point; it's obvious enough to you and me who's model we're talking about or posting pictures of, but to everyone else, it might be confusing to keep track of two builds on a single post. If you make your own build log, I promise to check it out regularly and comment on it (if just for my own benefit.)

 

So, last I posted photos on my build, I still had two thwarts left to add to the ship's boat. Joel got me thinking that using paper or card stock templates might make cutting those irregular shapes out of the wood strips easier, so I made a couple of card stock templates for the last thwarts and then used them to make the wooden pieces. It was a good idea. (I have a photo of the card stock in place, and then one with the wooden pieces.)

 

Then comes the clinker-style planks. The instructions make them optional, and do mention that they are tough to do at this small scale. I'll agree with that last part!

I first tried to make paper templates for each of three planks on one side. That alone was hard, because I had a lot of trouble keeping the paper in place. I tried card stock and tape, regular paper and tape, and settled on the adhesive part of post-it notes. The post-its worked best but still were far from easy. I have a photo of the three paper templates, with the top plank on top. As I progress to lower parts of the hull, the plank shape gets increasingly distorted, with the ends curved more and more downwards. I then used these paper templates to cut 1/16" wide planks out of 1/8" wide stock. But first, I had to thin the stock down from 1/32" to 1/64". I started by rubbing it back and forth over a piece of 120 sandpaper, but as the pieces got thinner and more delicate, they had a tendency to break on the 'push'. The technique that ended up working for me was to put sandpaper face up on the table, and pull the plank in only one direction, between my finger and the sandpaper, applying gentle downward pressure. This way it didn't break the pieces when they got thin, and some of them even developed a gentle curve which was going to be useful when the piece was to be applied to the hull. Then I cut the shape of the paper template (the stickiness of the post-it adhesive worked well to stick the paper to the wood) and then gently curve it over the hull. I used a compass to draw the tops of the second and third plank (first plank was to be at the top of the hull, the second was 3/64" lower, allowing for a 1/64" overlap with the plank above, and the third plank would be 6/64" below the top, also allowing for overlap.) Suffice it to say, it was both easy and hard to work with such thin planks (they bent easy, but they were pretty delicate.) I did resort to CA glue at the ends, and wood glue along the main course. I have a couple of views of the finished product. I think I can trim some of the planks after they're in place to make it a little more aesthetic, but I'm going to let it sit for a little while before attacking it again.

Now I just have to do the other side, and then I can glue on the stem, stern, keel, and cap rail.

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I just got the replacement parts today, and gosh darn it, the new bulkhead former is warped almost exactly the same as before! The bulkheads themselves seem better, but I've made no headway on what Al calls the 'PF'. I've soaked both, and put them under some books with some over correction on the straightening, so we'll see how it goes. In the meantime, I'm working on the great cabin bulkhead, and I'll probably start on the poop bulkhead tonight. I'll put pictures of those up later.

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Yeah, Steve, it's kind of a bummer. They didn't send that one sheet that was missing the bulwark template, so I figure since I'm going to need that anyway, maybe I'll try for one more bulkhead former, if they're willing. I sent an email to Marc, and we'll see what he says. He may be getting sick of hearing from me by now, but that one was a legitimate gripe. The piece literally never got laser cut into the sheet, for some reason that I still really don't understand.

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Yeah- whatever is missing or warped they will replace. They make mistakes but seem to make good for it. I had messed up my longboat and they sent me a whole new set of planking and bulkheads upon request. 

Steve

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Hey Richie, that is a downer.  I feel really bad for you seeing as my kit came so well.  Do you have a scroll saw and would you attempt to cut your own PF (ha ha I thought you told me it was being called the 'profile former' so I went with PF.  Should I switch to BF?  Naw, from your pov now it should be BS)?  I would do that for you if you say its worth while.

 

Next build?  Scratch build from swizzle sticks.  Avoids all hassles.  Only down side is you have to drink way too much coffee to finish the build.

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I've continued with parts of the build that I can do while waiting to really start on page 1. I've trimmed the clinker planks a bit on the one side that I actually planked, and I think it looks better. I'll do the other side soon, but I was looking for a change of pace (because my attention span is too short to work on one thing too long.)

On page 11 and 12, there is a description of making the great cabin bulkhead, the poop bulkhead, and the forward cubbridge head. These are made 'off the ship', so I can work on them now. The suggestion is to start with the great cabin bulkhead first, because it's well hidden on the finished model, and any 'learning' mistakes can be most easily hidden. As instructed, I planked the door first, then the wall around it. I used a pencil to simulate the caulk, and I like the way that worked. It says to 'be sure to bend each plank so it follows the camber created by the bottom edge.' This not only seemed like a tough thing to do, but it doesn't seem like the way I'd expect it to be on the real ship. I just put a plank straight across the bottom, and them trimmed the edge to match the bottom edge. Then, all the higher planks could go on square. I'm certainly no expert, but if I was tasked with planking a wall on a ship, that's how I'd do it.

It says that there's no point in trenailing this bulkhead, as it's hard to see on the model, but I decided to do it anyway, as a learning process. I've seen it done many ways, and I don't think I like the heavy, big, black trenails. I was going for a more subtle effect. I used a 69 drill to make the hole, and then (I read this somewhere, I forget where) I put a sharp pencil point in::to the hole and gave it a few rotations. That had two effects: it made the hole nice and round, and it put a faint black circle around its edge. Then I used Elmers carpenters wood filler to fill the holes and let it dry and sanded it. I think they came out good. The one thing I learned it not to slather the wood filler around the whole thing. I'd try to apply just a tiny dab right over the hole and scrape it flat. Because I think the extra wood filler is what made it take up stain a bit irregularly.

I planked the poop bulkhead, and made the little window by putting white pinstripe tape over the acetate sheet (all supplied in the kit) and I think it looks pretty good. I've marked where the trenails will go with a pencil, but I haven't drilled and filled them yet.

After staining, I think I'll use card stock (painted black) for the hinges, and put the black-painted bent eyebolt in for a handle, and we should be ok.

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Lookin good.   I agree that at this scale its hard to get trenails to look realistically small.  I don't know how soft this planking is but I found on Bounty that the sharpened pencil made a good enough indentation -- enough to avoid drilling all the holes.  And I'm just guessing, but I would bet that the wood filler is unnecessary if you paint the whole wall with sanding lacquer; maybe but not necessarily two coats.  That would fill the holes without all blotch marks.  You might also consider doing the staining first, then the trenailing and then the coat of lacquer.  Will you be putting rings or something on the doors?  A small eyebolt with a ring hung in it makes a good looking door knob (of sorts). 

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Al, good points, thanks. I don't have and sanding lacquer (same as sanding sealer?), but I could probably acquire some.

The planks are pretty soft, and I could try just pushing the pencil point in. I might get more variable sized holes, but we shall see.

I think the trick to avoiding the blotchiness is to sand off the extra filler well. It's kind of invisible in this case, so you have to look at it under the light at an angle to see it.

The instructions say to use an eyebolt, and just bend the eye down to simulate a handle, so I'm doing that. The hinges are paper painted black with a small wire for the hinge pin. Note: in the photos, the hinges are just rectangular. In the plans, they have a taper with a sort of bulb on the end (which I like) so I'll try to emulate the design on the plans.

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I've done some more work on the ship's boat. I've put the clinker planks on both sides, put on the cap rail, and put on the stem, stern and keel pieces.

Here's what I learned:

1) I think the best way to put on the clinker pieces is to use a compass to draw lines on the hull where the pieces will go. So, if you want 1/16" wide planks, set the compass to 1/16" and follow the top of the hull with the point; then reset to 2/16", repeat. Reset to 3/16", repeat, for as many planks as you need. You have to put the bottom plank on first as the upper planks overlap the lower ones. So, in this case, I'm using 1/8" stock, but aiming for 1/16" planks. The easiest way to do this is to forget about using paper or card stock templates (which were a pain in the neck, and worked only passably well), and just glue the 1/8" stock over the area to be covered. Then, redraw the lines that were covered by the extra-wide plank, and cut on those lines with an 11 blade, and pry off the outer pieces. This gives a perfectly straight and even width plank. Then you can place the next extra-wide plank above that one, redraw the lines, and cut off the excess. This worked very well on my second side, except for the fact that I only put 2 planks rather than three for some reason. But if I had to do it over again, I'd use this technique, and I think it would be quick and pretty.

2) When carving the bottom of the hull, be aware that the alignment tab in the stern area blends into the hull itself, and you should be careful not to cut off too much. I ended up with a similar shape in the back as the front, and when I put the keel and stern piece on, it was clear that there was a big triangular gap between the hull and keel and stern piece. I just filled it with wood filler (as you may see in the photos) and I think it worked ok, but it would be better to have been aware of that before shaping the hull.

 

My next steps will be to put the oarlocks on, and to put hinges and door knobs on  the great cabin and poop bulkheads.

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I got my second set of replacement parts today! They actually sent me two versions of the BF: one in plywood and one in basswood. The plywood is a different brand than the previous parts: it has a whiter color instead of that pinkish shade to the outer sheets. However, it's actually closer to 1/8" than 3/16", and it's still got a pretty nice warp in it. The basswood BF is perfect! Exactly 3/16" thick, and nice and flat. The only thing to be careful about here is that, since it's only one ply, the thin areas will be extra-fragile. I'll just have to be careful. Once the bulkheads are in, it should be stronger. So, I'm going to use the basswood BF, and I think it'll work great (and I'll be the only kid in town with a basswood bulkhead former!)

 

They also sent a that piece of 1/32" plywood where I was missing the bulkwark template. This one has both, so now I'll have an extra one.

 

Now I can go back to page one, and really start the build officially. With any luck, I can catch up to Al before he gets too far ahead!

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Its not a race, gentlemen! 😀 My plywood is also white in color. I don't think it's basswood. Sounds like you got what they usually include in their kits. Glad you can start now!

Steve

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OK, glad to hear the games are on.  Interesting though that my pinkish BF was perfect and it was those that are bad for you.

 

I'll be glad to oblige you and slow down.  It feels like I'm at a snails pace anyway since getting on with the fairing.  Today I finished gluing on the last deck (the big one) and was looking over the next stage (planking the counter) when I remembered I had wanted to fill some gaps here and there with wood filler.  So I did a bit of that.  I'm using Durhams, a powder that mixes up really nicely into any consistency you need and dries quite hard but is still very sandable.  After a bit of that I got to thinking about filling the bow with balsa filler.  So I began a new career as a wood carver.  I'll post on this in the morning with some pix.  I did one side and I think its good enough to go ahead and do the other and use them. 

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 I've gotten started again. I carved the area between the bearding line and the rabbet strip, athough I tried it a bit differently. Firstly, I aimed for 1/16" final thickness rather than 3/32" (I saw a comment on another build where Chuck suggested going a bit thinner than 3/32"). Also, I did the carving (actually, filing in my case) before gluing on the rabbet strip. I just scribed a line on the bottom of the BF 1/16" in from each end, and filed to that level. Then I cut the back end of the rabbet strip to 1/16" from its original 1/8" and glued it on. My reasoning was that this was I wouldn't over-thin the rabbet strip during the filing process, and I'd have a nice square contour to it. I think it was ok, but I'm not sure it was much of an improvement on the original technique.

I've glued about half of the bulkheads on. I show these pictures mainly because I remember Al saying he had no idea what a lego was, and doubts that he'd ever seen one. Al, that green block is a lego; they're actually very useful for creating right angles because they are made of hard plastic, and have perfect right angles on each block. They come in different sizes (and colors), and can be stacked to create different sizes and shapes. I used it for the first time on this ship, and I'd do it again. It's at least as good as any other squaring tool that I've seen.

I'll finish the bulkheads and then add the filler blocks and eye hook next and we'll see how the fairing process goes...

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Looks good.  All squared up with legos. I looked on line and will probably pick up a can of them sometime soon.  Looks like they would be a great substitute for all the square wood blocks that I keep around.  I also keep a bunch of little wedges.  Keep that in mind when you are filing or sanding bulkheads and would like to stabilize it but don't have room for a block or lego.  I slip a wedge down in between them.

 

Now that you bring up the subject of the rabbet at the bow.... first off, I think I do the same thing; try one way or another to make a technique a bit easier or get a better result and in the end the tried and true way in the instructions are just as good.  But it provides experience and that's really what we're after at this point.  Now, as for the rabbet...I'm thinking of the planking now and with that rabbet strip on the bow it seems that the planks that wrap around the bow are going to have to hit that rabbet.  Means they have to be cut perfectly or else they will need to be started at the rabbet and wrapped back in the direction of the stern.  What I did on Bounty was always to leave plenty of overhang (there was no rabbet) and then cut the planks when dry.  That had the advantage of being able to rubberband the plank to the hull on the opposite side so the bend was held tight.  This is just a first planking so I suppose the joint at the rabbet doesn't have to be perfect.

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Al, I think the rabbet is actually supposed to make the planking easier! And I think your idea is exactly right. You tuck the front of the plank into the rabbet, and that holds it perfectly in place without even needing a clamp there. You can let it overhang in the back until you get the front nice and glued in, and then you can trim the back to length. At least, that's my current understanding. Time will tell...

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I didn't think that you could 'tuck the plank into the rabbet', I thought (and observe so far) that all you can do is butt the plank up against it.  I don't see how that holds it down or keeps it in place.  Like you said, time will tell.  The rest of it is spot on -- get the butted end on first (maybe a spot of CA there to hold it down) and then work toward the stern.  I still can't decide if I will try using one full length plank or two or three planks, but which ever is easier, the last one can surely be run off the stern and then cut back. 

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