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Charter33

HMS Triton by Charter33 - Complete model - POF - 1:48 Scale

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Hi,

 

The first step is often the hardest ….

 

I hope to undertake this challenge of building my first POF ship in order to develop my practical skills and learn new techniques - as well as ending up with a (hopefully) impressive final model.  I’ve been preparing for a month or so – downloading the plans for the keel, getting them printed and sourcing the wood.

My choice of timber is cherry for the keel and frames, maple for the false keel and other components further down the line and I also have some black walnut in store.

The timber as purchased:

 

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A strip of each cut off, split and planed down to 8 mm.

 

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Ready to start ….

 

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The first component I decided to make was the aft deadwood.

Patterns cut out and glued onto the cherry with ‘Spray Mount’. I’ve found that this holds the paper in place well enough without leaving any residue on the surface once removed. A couple of times the paper lifted while a piece was being worked but this was spotted and dealt with before errors occurred.

 

IMG_5864.jpg.55bc44e1093cd81e62a1fba3db9d31a3.jpg

 

After initial cutting out with a band saw edges were refined with a combination of a band facer and drum sander.

 

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I have read about, and liked, the technique of enhancing wood joints with permanent marker pens and decided to experiment with black and brown pens on some off-cuts. To say the difference is subtle would be a wild exaggeration!  Blowed if I could tell the difference….

 

IMG_5888.jpg.7f99460d1dbc7a2fc7bfb8f1853eba15.jpg

 

The pieces were glued together, cleaned up and the ‘steps’ marked prior to the waste wood being removed with chisels.

 

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My first attempt. I’m leaving the final shaping to the sides until much more of the keel has been completed in order to try and get my head around how much wood needs to be removed.

 

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I have also been working on making a building board.

 

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Before I work on progressing further could someone confirm whether or not this project has been opened to new members again, please? I’m a bit confused by the message saying that it is on the ‘Forum’ front page and the one at the top of the ‘Cross section’ thread saying it’s temporarily closed.

 

In no way is the fact that this project has no big glossy box to smuggle through the back door while the Admiral isn’t looking, thus avoiding the inevitable questions of ‘how much?’ or ‘and where is it going to go when it’s finished’ has absolutely no bearing on my decision to get actively involved ….. honest…

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

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Thanks for the ‘likes’, comments and input.  Always welcome and appreciated.

 

Michael (MEDDO) – the equipment is not exactly mine,  but having access to it is the next best thing. The planner / thicknesser and I go back 40 years – and I believe it was almost 20 years old when I first used it!  I must have fed the equivalent of a small forest through it over that time …..

Christian – I agree that the black and the brown pens that I used on the aft deadwood are too dark.  I have found a set of ‘Furniture Touch up scratch repair’ marker pens that contain lighter browns and plan to experiment with these when they arrive next week.

 

In the mean-time the components for the bow structure are ready to be cut out.

IMG_5891.jpg.ce2b3a9f649b63b95d61e85746cb7efc.jpg

I’ve been working on the false keel and keel parts this week.  All the scarf joints have been marked out and cut.

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I have also made a temporary filler piece for the space between the fore and aft deadwoods, where the frames will go later,  to help with shaping the bottom edges of the keelson components and to aid with the alinement  of the various sub-assemblies when they are glued together.

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I’ll be adding the tapers to the ends later.  They are ready for gluing now and once dry I plan to add the treenails to the joints.  Showing my inexperience here,  but should these be wooden pegs or copper wire? – I’ve seen both methods used …..

 

Cheers for now,

 

Graham.

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Hi,

The Furniture scratch repair pens arrived .... three different browns euphemistically labeled mahogany, oak and cherry.

IMG_5910.jpg.9e7534fb7022eab9690a6dcbc44e8594.jpg

The first was as dark as the marker pen I used previously on the aft deadwood, the other two, shown above, were very similar to each other but do not match the woods they are named after, to be honest. The cherry, on the left, was the best of the bunch and it was this that I used on the second attempt at the deadwood and various scarf joints.

IMG_5934.jpg.af9c69a087bab95fb1bc028a1c9583d6.jpg

It would be wrong of me to criticize these pens without actually trying them for their advertised purpose, but with a working knowledge of furniture restoration and various finishing technique including French polishing there are other processes I'd use to repair scratches first.  The effect of this pen was generally okay although it does have a tendency to bleed,  especially on end grain.

 

Then I came across Dan Vad's advice to Jeff (Zarcon) on his HMS Victory build log about using Pigma Brush pens and archival ink.  More than twice the price of the set of three, but so much better - and worth every penny! I'll be using this for the rest of the build.

IMG_5938.jpg.912af6c1235ed6a6e84f7508456db7d6.jpg

I have now completed cutting out all the components for the keel etc.

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My next task is to add the rebates and additional tapering to the fore and aft deadwoods, referring to the first plan sheet and the other build logs in this forum - I love a challenge!  Once this has been done, and the parts have been assembled, I hope to be in a position to access the full set of sheets.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

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Hey Graham,

Very nice start! I might have missed it, but did you say what scale you are working in?

 

 

Bill

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Hi,

Bill – thanks for dropping in.  I’m building to a scale of 1:48 as per the plans. I forgot to put this in the original thread title and was unable to find a way to edit it. I’ve now resorted to adding it as a tag label.

 

A quick up-date:-

The great news of the re-opening of the Triton build topic and the changes in how to now access the plans arrived while I was way on a family holiday. Dealing with this was the first job I did upon my return!

The plans are superb – some sheets are genuine works of art. Thank you if you were involved in their production. So much time, care and effort has clearly gone into them. Very much appreciated. Today I invested in having all the AO and A1 sheets printed as I cannot do this for myself unlike the A4 sheets. I have found much information to assist with the task of shaping deadwoods, stern and inner posts etc. Looking at the grooving in the keel sides I decided to spend a bit of preparation time making a basic scratch stock to add this detail.

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The stock is beech and the blade was fashioned from a heavy duty craft knife blade. Three different ‘spurs’, to deal with the variations in angles shown on the plan, were initially ground to shape with a Dremel and then honed on a water-cooled grindstone. A quick trial on an offcut of cherry proved successful.

 

I’ve been checking the list of plan files in the ‘Complete Model’ download section against the list provided further up in the download area and have found a bit of discrepancy. On the plus side there are many additional files covering areas such as Great Cabin sash lights, Hawse, Hawse and Bollard timbers. Although most of the files I initially thought were missing were actually available by looking in the 'Cross-section' build version download area, I have not yet been able to locate the following:

Belfry layout

Binnacle

Capstan details

Capstan Layout

Triton stove

Wheel

Stem

Tapered keel

Starboard Stern Timbers (1-3)

Tafferel Rev 1 (????)

Rudder

Rudder iron work

 

Are they ‘hiding’ on other sheets perhaps? My inexperience could well have led to me overlooking them of course. Is there any way to obtain them? Any advice gratefully received.

 

Cheers for now.

 

Graham.

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On 02/08/2017 at 8:04 AM, Charter33 said:

I’m building to a scale of 1:48 as per the plans. I forgot to put this in the original thread title and was unable to find a way to edit it. I’ve now resorted to adding it as a tag label.

I've done it for you. For future reference, go to the very FIRST post in the thread. Click on the Edit button, there is a Title box in the Editor which you can change/add to.

 

Great start Graham. From what I've seen so far you really have the knowledge and skills to finish up with a superb model. Keep up the good work :).

 

:cheers:  Danny

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Thanks for sorting this out for me Dan. I've been a regular viewer of your IJN Amatsukaze build - incredible! I never realized that card models of this sophistication even existed...

 

I've managed to make a little more progress with the Triton build in between the demands of a couple of other projects.

 

The scratch stock did the job and both the keel and false keel have now also have had their ends tapered.

I turned three brass screws to hold the keel in place on the building board (and later onto a display base although that's many years away!). Brass bushes where also turned and pressed home into the keel.

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Keel and false keel are now joined .....

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....and the building board, now complete with a print of the jig plan, has been drilled in readiness for the keel once it has been completed.

IMG_5948.thumb.JPG.2b6f6540165a268fb0dc4cc8e38221a0.JPG

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

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20 hours ago, Charter33 said:

Thanks for sorting this out for me Dan. I've been a regular viewer of your IJN Amatsukaze build - incredible! I never realized that card models of this sophistication even existed

No worries Graham. If you think Amatsukaze is something wait until you see my next model of Bismarck - it's about five times as complex.

 

I said it before and I'll say it again - you've got the talent to make a great model. Your preparations are meticulous :).

 

:cheers:  Danny

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Hi,

Now that the dust has settled on the start of a new school year I've managed devote a bit of time again to this project and have made some more progress ......

 

Shaping the fore and aft deadwoods was holding me up a bit as I tried to make sense of the various sectional profile drawings. My inexperience was evident as I tried to juggle the various profiles and much time was spent working through the other build logs in this section. They certainly helped, and then I came across and followed the link that Dan Vad mentioned in a post referring to his HMS Vulture build. This proved to be a great help and I can see myself visiting this regularly as my build continues - thank's Dan!

 

In the end you just have to dive in and have a go...

 

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Using a combination of thin brass sheet and acrylic templates pinned to the aft deadwood the sides were reduced to the required shape.

 

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My first attempt at tapering the lower end of the inner post was not as successful as I had hoped so a second had to be made.

 

The rebates were then cut in the stern post with a scalpel and lower area worked to match the ajoining components prior to being glued together.

 

A carving knife proved an effective way to cut the curving rebate in the stem and subsequent shaping of the fore deadwood. I expect there will be a bit more work ahead on these later.

 

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At last we have a keel!

 

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... and work begins on the frames ......

 

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Cheers,

 

Graham.

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i am extremely sorry for hijacking your thread, but i just need a quick advice

i too have a set of plans printed, my shipyard is almost fully fitted out and am currently deciding on what timber to use for framing.

never worked with anything as fancy as cherry, besides it is quite expensive in here. but i can source some Basswood with 15% off voucher and i was thinking, is basswood any good for framing?

thanks for any opinion on this matter

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1 hour ago, maaaslo said:

is basswood any good for framing?

Not really Pav. It's too soft to hold sharp edges, and the grain and colour are nothing to get excited about. It would be OK if you don't actually see any of the framing.

 

:cheers:  Danny

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No apology necessary, Pav - sharing knowledge and experience is what this site is all about. I just wish I was in a position to be able to provide a fully informed answer!

My initial thought when considering what to say in reply was that although I've seen it mentioned by other builders I have never come across a piece of basswood, yet alone used it. A quick 'google', however, has revealed that basswood is another name for lime (which just goes to prove that you never stop learning, even in my profession and at my advanced years!), a timber I have used in the dim and distant past for carving. Luckily we are blessed with members on this site who do know their stuff so a respectful nod to Dan and thanks for fielding your question. I am in full agreement with his reply.

I'm using cherry for the first time on this model and have found it relatively easy to work and shape. I made the decision to use it based on the advice of other builders. It finishes nicely but a little care is needed when using power sanding tools, such as disc sanders, to avoid scorching and darkening especially on end grain. The same advice is true for many of the denser hardwoods. As for sourcing it - have a look at Surrey Timbers Ltd on-line site. I have mentioned them before in the 'UK Timber Suppliers' pages in the 'Wood Discussion'section.

Hope this helps - and I look forward to seeing progress with your build.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

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Many thanks to Dan, he stopped me from unnecessary spending.

and even more thanks to you, Graham. For showing me where to source the timber from. Even though i live in Essex, i do drive down to portsmouth at least once a week, so i could even pop in mysef and save on postage... crap, even more spending on the horizon...

and it looks like i might need to change my ks230 for something slightly larger. It just doesnt have the mmph to do the job.

thanks boys for the quick answers.

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Pleased to have been of some help. I'll be heading over there myself sometime in the near future...... but be warned - so much beautiful timber, so much temptation ....... enjoy!

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A quick up-date........

 

After a bit or re-organisation the workshop now has an area dedicated to the Triton build.

 

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The first frame has now been completed. I'm thinking about adding some pegs (tree nails?) Assuming that these would have been about an inch in diameter on the original my calculations come out at a gnats whisker over 0.5 mm diameter. I'll try and source some brass wire and see how it goes.

 

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I played safe and worked on a frame from the centre of the hull (0). It currently has excess material at the top which will be trimmed later, but in the meantime this provides support for the acrylic brace that I hope will prevent any movement in the wood.

 

I've also had a go at making a height gauge for transferring vertical measurements from the plan to the model.

 

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Cheers for now,

 

Graham.

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Hi,

The workshop is a school workshop. On a typical day I can share it with approximately a hundred students, in groups of about twenty, ranging in age from 11 - 18. This particular corner I claim as my own, the bench is mine and will be leaving the school with me when I eventually retire, as will my Poolewood wood turning lathe which also graces the room. I will, however, need to sort out a workshop of my own, when that day comes, that will be big enough to accommodate this equipment and all the other bits and pieces that have accumulated over the years! 

My other project, HMS Victory, is being constructed in the 'spare' bedroom at home, much smaller and 'cosy', to put it politely. 

I get to work very early to avoid travel congestion - the workshop is quiet, there are no students around, for almost an hour my time is my own ........... is there a better way to start a working day?

.... and at the other end of the day, when they've gone home, planning and marking is up to date and any meetings are finished ........... B)

 

Thanks for the comments and 'likes', the feedback is much appreciated.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham

 

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Hi,

 

I managed to find a local supplier of 0.5 mm brass wire and my first attempt at a frame now has the pins I mentioned earlier.

 

IMG_5987.thumb.JPG.439b5a277eb5c0535af5b9a65d2c8f30.JPG

 

I decided to focus on the stern and to this end I've worked on the transom pieces. I made the lowest filling transom first and to be honest it was a bit of a disaster.  Subsequent attempts were more successful. 

 

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 The filling, deck and wing transoms have been cut to profile and the joints adjusted to ensure a good fit with the inner post.  They have not yet been glued into place.  Inner surfaces have been given an initial fairing but I'm thinking of leaving the outside faces and the ends until the appropriate frames are ready.  This way I can refine the fit to the frames and they will be better supported and stronger to withstand shaping.

 

Next task will be the bow - once I've worked out which version of the Hawse to use. There seem to be two versions: 'Hawse, 1 - 5' and 'Hawsetimbers 1 - 6'. I think it's the latter .....

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

 

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Hi Ben,

Thank's for dropping in, and I'm pleased that you are enjoying the work so far. You're right - the Hawse timbers are proving an interesting challenge! I had been trying to figure out how to get an accurate reversed image of the various components for the opposite side of the hull. I used to oil model aircraft plans so that the lines could be seen through the back of the paper if the need arose. Not much help here with the paper needing to be cut and glued to the wood as a template. Almost had to dig out the old light box. However, two of the most important members of staff at my place of work are the caretaker and the lady who runs the reprographics support  - the latter came to the rescue. It seems that these all singing and dancing photocopiers have a 'mirror' setting :D Modern technology is a wonderful thing, and this old dog has learnt another new trick.

 

Cheers,

 

Graham.

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Graham, 

Do you have a scanner?  Or a printer with scan ability?  If so, scan the plan and flip it before printing.  Just make sure the scan copy is the exact same size of the original.

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I have a feeling that was the method this industrious and illustrious colleague used, Mark. i just dropped if off in her 'in tray' and she did her magic. She's usually rushed off her feet - must have been a quiet day, it was delivered to my classroom / workshop by hand, and the scale measured up true.

 

Graham

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