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Chuck

HMS Winchelsea - 1764 - Group Prototype by Chuck (1/4" scale)

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1 hour ago, Chuck said:

Now the inside edges do have laser char on them as you might expect.  DO NOT try and sand this stuff off. 

Just curious.. 

They appear dark all around, not just the inside edges,  and unlike some of your other thin boxwood pieces. like the lantern.   Is that just the lighting?

 

The dark color provides contrast that I find attractive..

Edited by Gregory

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Thanks guys.  Yes its just the lighting because of the angle of the transom.  The light is directly above so its in shadow.

 

it is good to be working on something other than planking.  😀

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It is quite difficult do have properly sized mutins as well as consistent pane symmetry across the transom. Not to mention all those changing bevels over the transom. My hat's off to you, Sir!

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Thanks Greg, Yes indeed there are quite a few angles.   So far so good though.

 

Just a small update, but its an important one.  The image below shows the transom and quarter gallery filler.  Notice the top edge of the transom.  You can see all of the layers and this is not very desirable since this area outboard will be left bright and visible.  It looks ugly.   To clean this up, we need to add a strip along the top edge.  This will have a cleaner finished look.  But its full of curves and also has the stern frames protruding through it.  This could make it tricky to achieve.   

 

transom6.jpg

But I wouldnt try doing this in one piece using a continuous strip that needs to be notched out around the stern frames.  That would be nuts considering the compound curves.

 

So I decided instead to add the cap of the transom in sections which proved to be much easier and really not that difficult at all.  The cap is very thin.  In fact the thinner the better.  I milled a 1/64" thick strip that was 3/16" wide.   Such a thin strip of any wood is very flexible. But Cedar in particular is crazy flexible and very strong.   To demonstrate this, I literally milled a strip on my Byrnes saw and then tied it into a knot.  I didnt apply any heat or water.  The photo below shows the strip after I took it directly off the saw and tied it.

 

transomcap1.jpg

 

Of course I cut a new strip!!!!  Then I cut it into segments as shown below to finish the top of the transom so it wouldnt look so ugly.  The fancy molding on the transom will cover the seam outboard and the top surface will look nice and clean.  You can see I have a few sections left to finish it up.

transomcap.jpg

You can see in this image below that no layers can be seen any more.  You shouldnt do the side of the transom....dont put a strip there.  Only the top edge gets it.  The sides will be completely covered with the figure that will eventually be placed there.  You wont see those layers.

 

transomcap2.jpg

I also cut a new set of windows using yellow cedar rather than boxwood.  These actually work better in my opinion.  Th e color is better and they are no more fragile than the boxwood versions.  So I am going to go with Cedar.  The laser char is much lighter as well because Boxwood burns a whole lot more!!!  So its not as noticeable.  I coated the thin cap on the right side with some wipe on poly so you could see it better.  I wanted to show you how thin it is.  When you mill the strip....keep it thin.   It makes it a lot easier to work with.

 

transomcap3.jpg

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Fabulous stuff Chuck.  Looks fantastic...   

I'm not sure about me milling a 1/64" strip. Right now I'm not sure I can make a decent 1/8" strip.  However I think I will be getting a lot of practice in the future......

Always looking forward to your updates....

Steve

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Moving right along...

 

I am about to start framing out the quarter galleries.  But before we do that, we must take care of those stern windows on the transom.  I am only referring to the one in the quarter gallery that is actually a "dummy" window.  This window was actually boarded up in the qgalleries.  I am not even sure if it had an actual piece of glass in it.  Needless to say I added the laser cut acetate window pane. This is something that just makes the stern look more consistent in my opinion.  But you can leave it out if you prefer.

 

So there are three layers...

 

First the laser cut window (light).

Then the acetate pane

lastly the laser cut 1/16" insert.

 

The aft side of this insert should be painted a dark gray.  Try and avoid a pitch black.  See below.

 

qga;wind.jpg 

The three layers are inserted from the forward side.  You dont have to glue the window unless you need to move it around for the best fit.  Check it from the outboard side to be sure.  Dont put any glue on the acetate.  Just push it against the window and let it site there.  What you want to do is just apply a little glue to the edges of the insert and add that last.  It will hold in your window.  Then sand the surface so the forward side of the qgallery is all flush and neat.

 

qga;wind1.jpg

qga;wind2.jpg

With this all done, we can start constructing the quarter galleries.  This is some real tricky business.  There are so many angles to contend with.  You must establish the correct slope of the qgalleries.  This is the hardest part.  We will be constructing the "stool" of the gallery first.  This is the extension of the upper counter as it wraps around to form the base of the qgallery.

 

But you just can begin by grabbing the laser cut framing and and gluing it onto the model.  The angle of the stool is crucial to every additional laser cut part for these galleries.  If the angle is off, none of the windows will fit etc.   So measure twice and then measure again.

 

To assist with this, I have created some paper templates for you.  This is nothing new.  Many of you have used this technique before.....see below.

 

qga;wind3.jpg

BUT....I have seen many of you make a crucial error when using them.  You dont want to place these against the hull planking.  This will result in your quarter gallery having the wrong angle and NOT following the run along the hull you want.  Instead, you need to cut the template out carefully and tape it to the outside edge of the transom.  Get this against the transom neatly.  In fact you will notice that is is just a hair lower than the bottom of the transom.  This is because if you follow the bottom edge of the template aft, it will intersect with the aft edge of the transom.   This is important and I hope that makes sense.

 

The 1/8" band on the bottom of this template represents the top of the stool framing.  You need to mark the forward edge of the template with a sharp pencil....the whole edge.....

 

Also mark the aft side which will reference the top of the qgallery along the transom edge.  The top left of the template.   

 

When you pull the template off, it will look like this below.

 

qga;wind4.jpg

Well actually you will just have the forward pencil line.   Then you need to add another about 3/64" aft of it.  This represents the shell thickness of the qgallery.   Also note how I defined the 1/8" frame at the bottom.   This will be the first qgallery timber we add to the model.   That will be shown in my next post.....

 

This is some complex stuff with all of these angles, so please feel free to ask me any questions. ....  

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Fantastic work Chuck.  Just looking at the photos makes me want to start, really having to make myself work harder to finish the engine so I can start on Winnie.

looking at the plans yesterday and see there are two sizes of long gun on there.  I know its way out of sequence but wondered what the mix of guns is.  Just curious. 

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Smaller guns on the quarter deck and forecastle.   Larger guns on the lower deck.

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Work has started on the qgallery framing....

 

The continuation of the upper counter is of course first.  Based on the reference marks from my template, I added the two beams that represent the top and bottom framing.  The top frame is 1/8" thick.  They are all laser cut for you by the way although a bit longer.  The top frame needs to be beveled to sit properly against the transom edge.    This image is from the 3/16" scale model and it shows the framing best.  You can see the bevels and fairing outboard.

qgallframing8.jpg

On top of the upper qgallery frame sits a laser cut piece that is very thin.  It is just 1/32" x 1/32".  But it is curved to follow the inside curve of the frame.  This will become important later.  You should add this now.  Here is what that looks like on the new model.  Also note the pie shaped piece that forms the lower frame.  This is 1/16" thick.  The aft edge is beveled to fit under the edge of the transom.  You can see that this lower piece follows the same angle as the top frame.

 

qgallframing2.jpg

Once these frames are glued on the outside edges must be faired just like the hull would be.  This is in preparation for the planking that will be glued to form the upper counter as it wraps around and forms the qgallery base.  The planking is actually just one piece and it has also been laser cut.  Again its a bit over-sized because everyone's model will be slightly different.   It is 1/32" thick.  Once glued on, you can sand the top and bottom edges flush with the framing.  (Also the aft edge)  The photo below shows it all sanded and completed.

 

You will have to bevel the forward edge of this shell before you glue it on....this is done so it fits snug and tight against the hull planking.

qgallframing3.jpg

Finally, you can add the fancy molding that defines the upper counter.  These are made from boxwood.  They should be 1/8" wide.  All of the strips were scraped in their usual way to form the molding.  The one thing I would mention which is an exception....the upper molding along the transom is actually 1/16" thick.  This is the only one that is thicker.  We need it to be thicker so it stands proud of the transom to support all of the columns and carvings between the windows.  But I used the same scraper to make this one that I used for the thinner strips.

 

In addition, I also scraped the fancy molding that is shown on either side of the stern post.  These define the bottom edge of the lower counter.  It has a slightly different fancy profile but is also 1/8" wide.  It finishes off the lower counter quite well and neatens it all up.  It separates the hull planking and any messy ends of those planks you might have been less successful with.  Just cover the seam slightly to hide any defects. 

 

qgallframing4.jpg

In the photo above you can also see that I tested the drop in position as well as the figure that sits on the end of the transom.  Jack did a great job with these and they fit really well.  They look great!!!

 

qgallframing5.jpg

If you wanted....you could add the drop permanently at this point but dont add the figure.  I was just testing how it fit.  In addition I thought I would test how well the friezes fit and what they would  look like.  These are also NOT glued on yet.  They are just lightly tacked on so I could see how they look.  I wanted to see the color and shape of these and if they actually fit.  I have a bit of tweaking to do on these but I do think they look good.  What do you think?  They are literally the actual friezes from the contemporary model.  They are replicated as best I could.....but are very very close.  You can check them out in our gallery on the contemporary model.

 

qgallframing6.jpg

qgallframing7.jpg

 

 

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Great work Chuck. I think having the drop and the figure when building the quarter galleries would really help proof the galleries.

At least for me that is. 

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Maybe but they molding on the qgalleries are tough to do.  These need to be edge bent like the planking at the bow.  Its quite a severe bend actually.

 

so i would be very afraid of smearing glue on the frieze and ruining it.

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Hi Chuck - this is all fascinating to me.  Your quarter gallery tutorial could not come at a better time!


The frieze is really interesting.  I’m assuming that it’s printed through some process or other.  What I wonder at is that - even with laser-cut parts and a very incisive group build-log, which accounts very nicely for variable results - there are going to be variable results.  So, I wonder at how one maps out something with a specific artistic framing - like a frieze - so that it can accommodate a multiplicity of outcomes.

 

All I can say is - this is incredible!  I’m not asking you to tell me your secrets, but I just wonder at the engineering of the thing.  The results are superb!

 

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On a separate note - I recently asked another noteworthy modeler on this site about the historic precedent for false windows in the quarter galleries, themselves.  His particular specialty was also the 18th Century, and so, he wasn’t so sure about that tendency for the 17th century.

 

I am wondering whether you have some insight into how far back the practice of faking quarter gallery windows goes.

Edited by Hubac's Historian

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Thanks,  that is an easy one.  It wont fit every model.  Other than making things slightly oversize so folks can compensate, there isnt much one can do.  At least not without making the outcome

look extremely kit-like.  If you are shooting for something better, then all that can be done .....is give folks the electronic file so they can stretch it and enlarge it until it fits their model..

 

 

Which is what i will do as well.  About the false lights...I have no idea really.  I just take it one model at a time

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I also forgot to mention.  I am building the Winnie as she was during the American revolution.  At this time,  all ships would have had their names on the upper counter. I am also working on a version of the frieze with the name.  

 

 

But its not very easy to make it look good.  Simply because the name “Winchelsea.” Is so long.  It looks kind of funny.  So i may use what i show in the photos myself even though it should have the name on it.  Its a work in progress.

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Yes, I agree that that is an interesting problem.  Presumably, the name would be in white, but there are a lot of relatively fine white lines in the frieze.  I think the finer the lettering, the better, but I suppose it would really depend upon where the individual letters fall in the frieze.  Also, maybe a light but complementary yellow ocher would give enough contrast without overpowering the frieze.

 

I guess it comes down to something you have touched upon in this log; is it better to be wholly accurate, including every detail, or to leave some detail out, in the interest of cleaner aesthetics?

 

That’s a tough one!

Edited by Hubac's Historian

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Indeed it is something to think about. But as I prefer not to offer “everything in the box kits”, its important to me to at least discuss the possibilities.  Then each builder can decide fir themselves.  Leaving some details to “bash” gives everyone the opportunity to make the model more unique.  Hopefully with so many graphics software packages out there,  folks will have some fun with the frieze.  Import my file and play with it.

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Happy thanksgiving guys!!!!

 

I woke up this morning and hit the head.  Took a selfie with my phone.   Then I started working on the model,  Here I am inspecting the quarter galleries.  The 1/4" scale figure was painted by a friend of mine in my local club.  He made it look like me.

 

me.JPG

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As usual your tutorial is great and will help no end with my own build when I get to doing the quarter galleries. 

Thankyou 👍

PS wouldn't it be handy now and again to be small enough to get on board and do some of the fiddly stuff 😆

Edited by Edwardkenway

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2 hours ago, Chuck said:

Happy thanksgiving guys!!!!

 

I woke up this morning and hit the head.  Took a selfie with my phone.   Then I started working on the model,  Here I am inspecting the quarter galleries.  The 1/4" scale figure was painted by a friend of mine in my local club.  He made it look like me.

 

me.JPG

wonderful work and model..

and it looks like you on the galleri..LOL...😉

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