Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Hi O.C. - what I did on my current build was I soaked the planks in household bleach for about 40 minutes,then rinsed them,then laid them out to dry. They turned a light grey when dry. The planks I used were kit supplied 1mm thick walnut,so I don`t know how that would come out using other types of wood - haven`t tried it on anything other than walnut. It didn`t seem to hurt the wood,either.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, marktiedens said:

Hi O.C. - what I did on my current build was I soaked the planks in household bleach for about 40 minutes,then rinsed them,then laid them out to dry. They turned a light grey when dry. The planks I used were kit supplied 1mm thick walnut,so I don`t know how that would come out using other types of wood - haven`t tried it on anything other than walnut. It didn`t seem to hurt the wood,either.

 

Mark

Thanks mark,  the planks are already fitted on the deck so what ever I do will have to be in a controled manner and kept tidy,    I  had heard a bout a wire wool and vinegar trick,   painting that  onto the planks - and making sure they were sealed afterwards.

 

OC.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure anything acidic is good to use unless the wood is washed or the acid neutralized.  I've heard of sails colored in tea/coffee being eaten in a few years so I'd think the same would apply to wood but over a longer time frame.  This would apply to vinegar also.   I might be wrong and if I someone knows different, let me know and I'll delete this post.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mark:

What's being described are chemicals being added to wood and a reaction starts - and then doesn't stop unless something is done to stop it.  Neutralizing as you mentioned stops it.  I would be very careful about doing anything that isn't able to be neutralized.  Not hard to dobefore it is installed but difficult after.

Kurt

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You can use some acrylic paint in a light grey color. Dilute this until it is the consistency of milk. Put a light coat on and let it dry thoroughly. Take a piece of metal (I use a #22 or #25 blade) and scrape the surface in one direction gently until you get the color you want. There will be variation in the color. But, that adds to the reality of the weathering.

 

Hope this helps

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Another technique is to use white glue mixed with cigarette ashes and water...no only serves for the caulking also to give an antique look to the wood. Once the mixture has passed and removed with a slightly wet cloth, pass a fine sandpaper to remove even more excess.
(The same technique is used for the hull).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Amazes me to see this idea of ageing decks, most of the models are of warships with large crews that need to be kept busy, so sweeping, washing and scrubbing  supplemented by Holly Stoning was common. Saltwater wash downs acts as a bleaching agent and merchant ships had painted decks. These decks are on a Heavy Cruiser, kept white by salt water scrub downs with weekly holy Stoning using a cleaning agent made up of salt water, scouring powder, bleach and boiler compound, mixed the night before in a garbage can, which came out shinny. The decks in these 2 photos are 3 years old, they are not gray. The one looks like the decks have not been cleaned up after blowing tubes, they were seldom that dirty.5a39b8814b31a_DIRECTFROMCEARCLICK207.1.thumb.jpg.0d5bd842b601aefe181257baf6cacaab.jpg5a39b8b058b74_DIRECTFROMCEARCLICK209.1.thumb.jpg.ff134e92be6a4007c4c56533c8859678.jpg5a39b42cd358c_DIRECTFROMCEARCLICK206.1.thumb.jpg.7130827108510bc286cb1fdb310595ed.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I use thinned acrylic paint.i mix up four parts brown (burnt umber) with one part blue (ultramarine blue) which makes a good very dark brown color suitable for representing tarred rigging at full strength. When thinned with plenty of water it makes a stain that you can paint on with a brush and controls with a rag or q-tip. You can gauge the color as you go and if it’s too dark you can wipe it up or buff off some of it with a moistened rag. You can also lightly sand right through this very thin coat exposing highlights that are pleasing to the eye. Certainly, as with any coating technique, I would try it out on scrap wood first.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Someone gave me a bottle of Hunterline Weathering Mix, Light Grey. It is a wood stain with rubbing alcohol solution so should not be injurious to the wood. I have not used it yet. www.hunterline.com

Joe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am with Jud, as an ex-navalman I am mystified with some of the over weathering of models I see (mainly plastic).  I believe that through the ages, basic naval practices (cannot speak for merchant service) will be based around the same principles.  I am sure that as there was not too much shore leave (fear of runners etc)  one of the first things the First Lieutenant would have organised was a cleaning and painting party for the ship's sides etc.  I acknowledge however, this is more difficult in such times as performing blockades etc.

 

The ship is the sailor's home and cleanliness is paramount if you do not want a sick ship, or an angry Admiral/Squadron/Flotilla Commander.  Ship's husbandry and maintaining fighting skills can be achieved together.  Even in times of war, in most theatres some effort was made to keeps interiors clean, and basic ship's husbandry done on accessible parts of the upper decks and ship's equipment (especially life boats etc).  Yes in times like WWII, during prolonged partols or escort duty in rough weather (Murmansk run) would have prevented any maintenance at all.  That said, even during our long deployments (6-9 months) some effort was made to minimise corrosion and maintain the ship's appearance (but not at the expense of proficiency).

 

While I am not a fan, and this is intended as a personal opinion only,  I understand some modellers use weathering to display their skills - each to their own preferences and I do admire the skills required to do this level of weathering.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I feel weathering is dependent on the theme or state of the model/vessel you are modeling.  Even in brand new vessels a certain amount of weathering is expected if not avoidable.  Sun, salt water is caustic to wood and metal and to eliminate the effects entirely is, IMV not representing the vessel accurately.

894084_10200145441491923_1444033693_o.jpg

1454583_10201589379469470_825845786_n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Vast difference between how commercial and military vessels are maned. That difference is reflected in upkeep , maintenance and appearance. A military vessel depicted as weathered and worn out would reflect a long time in combat or sickness, a long voyage of a military vessel maned with enough men to fight her would still be clean, painted and taring kept up. Sail and lines may even have been taken down and drug to whiten them and prior to being seen by a Senor or Pears in port, a Skipper would insist in a through cleanup and paint touch up took place, even today. Depicting a military vessel rusty and dirty is not what you would have found in history except, after long hours standing at general quarters or exceptionally heavy weather right up to the harbor entrance. Military Store ships would have large crews to defend her, to handle the stores quickly and have the crew to do fleet maneuvers, unlike a small crewed commercial vessel sailing alone and watching expenses, even then when on long voyages, often long runs without handling sail would take place if weather allowed, maintenance would have been the rule of the day. Poor maintenance and extreme weathered appearance reflected hard use and neglect, no exceptions. If that is what you are modeling, weather them hard, if not, go easy on the weathering or do none and let time create the look. My opinion, each his own. That Troller, ( Cape Race, wood hull ), I rode to Alaska and back after fishing for 6 months, looked as good the day we returned to Belingham as the day we left, we worked the boat long hours and hard, her decks were painted haze grey.5a664adfdd067_RESIZED003.1.thumb.jpg.c38e4ee4f71345def802ab629d1d0408.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I read that one way of holystoning a deck was : the stone was attached to 4 ropes and

4 crewmen moved it back and forth over the deck while spreading sand around it.  This

would essentially be sanding the deck.  Now - I have sanded a lot of species of wood. 

All it did was to return the wood surface to its native color.  Apart from Holy, no species turned white. 

Actual Holy would not be a realistic choice for a deck on a ship.  The holystoning would remove a

sun bleached/oxidized grey and would help remove splinters which would be bad for the bare feet of

the crewmen, as well as any tar stains from foot trafic - but how did this change the color of Pine or Fir or Oak to white? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In my experience..it is like taking a piece of greyed pine(weathered) and then plane it down to raw wood...it becomes much lighter..hence the *whiteness* mentioned and referenced.  Fresh planed wood cannot be made any whiter then it is already is...not unless you bleach it with chemicals.

Even as you mentioned..tar stains and the like that came from dirty feet that have been climbing tarred ratlines and similar fixtures needed to be removed from the deck...I'm sure  holystoning made the deck lighter.  Buffing a high traffic area (In a tiled public building) with a buffer today is probably the modern equivalent.

 

Rob

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Jaager said:

I read that one way of holystoning a deck was : the stone was attached to 4 ropes and

4 crewmen moved it back and forth over the deck while spreading sand around it.  This

would essentially be sanding the deck.  Now - I have sanded a lot of species of wood. 

All it did was to return the wood surface to its native color.  Apart from Holy, no species turned white. 

Actual Holy would not be a realistic choice for a deck on a ship.  The holystoning would remove a

sun bleached/oxidized grey and would help remove splinters which would be bad for the bare feet of

the crewmen, as well as any tar stains from foot trafic - but how did this change the color of Pine or Fir or Oak to white? 

I use yellow cedar for my decks as it more closely represents a hollystoned deck. I asked a while back why modelers chose Holly for decking as it was just way to white. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The decks on the Helena were scrubbed with a concoction of Salt Water Soap, Scouring Compound, Boiler Compound and I don't know what else. It was mix the day before in a galvanized Garbage Can  and let to work over night, the can came out shiny. That was what the decks were scrubbed with ahead of the Holy Stone. The stones were a sandstone brick, oversized like some fire brick. A half brick was used, a dimple was chipped into one side so the end of a swab handle had a socket to ride in. Wet down, scrub using long handled scrub brushes then holy stone the wet decks. Seamen would line up on a board, place their stone on it and their swab handle in the socket, bend over and grab the handle with one hand, reach over with the other and grab the forearm  and hold the handle against the shoulder at the same time. a Chantey was used to keep the timing,'one a rock, 2 a rock, 3 and a 4 a rock building up to the number of strokes wanted, then Shift a board was entered into the chant and start the count over. 10-12 men could holy stone fairly quickly, most chose to be bare foot with pants rolled up. Salt water was used from the fire mains, fresh water on a Steam Ship is not used to clean weather decks. Our decks were Teak. Can find some data on line to fill in and add and perhaps correct what I observed.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we are digressing from the OP's original question.  How do you age a deck to look.....weathered?

Personally I use extremely diluted India ink in 90~100% Isopropyl alcohol sprayed on from a spray bottle.  The ink is spread along the cracks and creases using capillary action and then the alcohol evaporates and leaves a nice *Weathered* surface. 

 

The extent of the Weathering depends on your ink dilution and your application.

 

Rob

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's an interesting technique Rob, have you any pictures of a finished deck you have done?  From your description, I think that would look pretty realistic.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This may not be of any help to you at this point, but on the "old" ships the decks were holystoned which gave them a whiter versus grey finish.  Holly is an excellent wood to give this look.  

 

Allan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 hours ago, BANYAN said:

That's an interesting technique Rob, have you any pictures of a finished deck you have done?  From your description, I think that would look pretty realistic.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Pat the technique works on any thing you want to weather.  You can substitute brown Ink for the black if you like.

Here are some images of the Revell Cutty Sark I converted into the Portuguese Ferriera.  This is modeled when she was at her lowest, rotting in some backwater. before she was purchased and rebuilt to her original glory.

 

I applied the alcohol technique to everything and then applied cerium oxide(which is an extremely fine(5 micron) powder to dust and add further ageing.

 

Rob

555923_10200341251547052_1050517377_n.jpg

30553_10200369878262702_1306546181_n.jpg

537990_10200369947264427_377776448_n.jpg

298141_10200382713983587_231652330_n.jpg

540127_10201383218635578_781574043_n.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Rob, that is a really great finish; a very believable 'mothballed' look to her.  Thanks for sharing.

 

cheers

 

Pat

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is and was probably a big difference between commerical and naval vessels. As has been pointed out before, on naval vessels intensive maintenance was both, a necessity to maintain a good fighting capability and a work-therapy for large crews that otherwise would become bored and unmanagable very quickly. During WWI and WWII particulary the axis powers faced supply chain issues, lacking spare parts and materials. War losses also meant long duty-cycles with only short breaks. All this together had its effect on the appearance of say German ships.

 

Apart from the aspects of owners' and master's pride, crews as small as possible meant also that maintenance was only carried out when really needed and there was the spare time for it. So, after a rough trip across the North Atlantic they may not look their best. Or, fishing vessels constantly moving between ports and fishing grounds will look rather worn, at least during the season - maintenance is carried out during the off-season. There are plenty of old photographs that show particularly smaller ships involved in local trade are not all 'shipshape and Bristol-fashion' as Dana put it.

 

Coming back to the original question: I used a mixture of approaches, namely washes with burnt umber (I would rather avoid black as being too stark) and white, as well as a dusting with white pastels. It may be worthwhile to have a look at what railway modellers do, who sometimes are quite fond of the aged and degraded. Belwo is an example not of a real wood-deck, but a painted one. However, the weathering technique would be more or less the same:

 

http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/models/botter/BotterModel/BotterModel-088.jpg

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

About us

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

SSL Secured

Your security is important for us so this Website is SSL-Secured

NRG Mailing Address

Nautical Research Guild
237 South Lincoln Street
Westmont IL, 60559-1917

About the NRG

If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is just right for you.

The Guild is a non-profit educational organization whose mission is to “Advance Ship Modeling Through Research”. We provide support to our members in their efforts to raise the quality of their model ships.

The Nautical Research Guild has published our world-renowned quarterly magazine, The Nautical Research Journal, since 1955. The pages of the Journal are full of articles by accomplished ship modelers who show you how they create those exquisite details on their models, and by maritime historians who show you the correct details to build. The Journal is available in both print and digital editions. Go to the NRG web site (www.thenrg.org) to download a complimentary digital copy of the Journal. The NRG also publishes plan sets, books and compilations of back issues of the Journal and the former Ships in Scale and Model Ship Builder magazines.

Our Emblem

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research
×
×
  • Create New...