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Johnnyreg

HMS Fly by Johnnyreg - Victory Models - Scale 1:64

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Thanks Paul, Denis, SpyGlass & Al for your kind words and thanks also to all who hit the like button

 

Thanks Al (alde) & Jobbie for following and welcome aboard.

 

Paul - thanks for clarifying the shipwrights rules for sizing. I’ve just ordered some 6mm boxwood from Original Marquetry here in the UK for when I come to do the two upper decks so that should be better than the 4.5mm I’ve just used and should give a more realistic looking edge joint. The 16 Syren/Chuck guns and carriages were £71 plus £19 import vat and handling fee so there not cheap. I just hope I end up using them

 

Denis - according to the FFM books the centre king plank is thicker on the gun deck but the extra thickness is recessed into the underlying beam and is level on the top. If I said I had done it that way would you believe me? ;)

Typically, after searching for ages on information about the edge planking and timelines for usage, I have just spent 10 minutes and found a lively discussion here

 

Also check here on page 9 of this pdf

http://modelshipworldforum.com/resources/Confed/Chapter10.pdf

 

SpyGlass - thanks for the warning about part 38 or did you mean part 43. Either way I will be careful.

11FD9550-388D-480F-8EE2-D8CFEE3232C6.thumb.jpeg.163c9fb7fc47acab17d7799be3184a59.jpeg

 

9A9C72D0-5377-4CB2-BE1D-37C2CC5196AB.thumb.jpeg.3e4c8ee1a7b9bf0b7884b0f47edaf90d.jpeg

 

 

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No i meant 38 those  little lugs on the beam are across the grain so they break VERY easily and the beam is a bit awkward to fit .

43 is fine - But something stirs in my brain - either Fly or Pegasus has that structure wrong  - the verticals are off so when the spare spars and /or boat is mounted wAYYYYY down the line  they dont sit true - I will check in my notes !

 

Yes look here

 https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/420-hms-pegasus-by-simonthepieman-victory-models-164-started-by-spyglass/&do=findComment&comment=9195

 

BUT THE DRAWINGS ARE RIGHT so check your bits aginst the drawing.

 

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Thanks SpyGlass for clarifying which part is vulnerable and the warning about the bits problem, I will check with the drawings hopefully tomorrow. Yes I’ve noticed part 38 has to be slid on horizontally not vertically because of the tongue & groove angle.

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I’ve checked with both the assembly and part drawings and it appears to be between 4 & 5mm to high but the lower cross piece height appears to be ok. Not sure at this time what it needs to be related to height wise so will leave out until I know. Thanks for the warning.

6EA5CCE4-07AC-408E-896F-6E6F2C65E5F3.thumb.jpeg.7db728abb079271ad8670f506fe022a1.jpeg

 

542D4277-6922-433E-9758-125CEC5E5914.thumb.jpeg.9eede7b3a845b4e62aefabadb3104858.jpeg

 

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B83F5DEA-48FF-4EE8-AD52-E8D8E2FACD3D.jpeg.dfbd1f51ec8ff99cd746290b38235e4c.jpeg

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Oh dear - I was just about to make a note that it was my Peggy part that was over size - but they seem now to have carried that over to the Fly.

Its not a big issue on Fly  but  the theory is the spare spars sit on top of these  fittings and the boats on top of the spars  so you want everything to be level. But not many builders  carry the build to that level - but its convenient to get it right at an early point not fixing it two years later !

Ha - here are pics of BE's peggy showing  what I am talking abourt !

https://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/15526-hms-pegasus-by-blue-ensign-finished-victory-models-164-scale/&do=findComment&comment=491755

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I cheat !  Just for eyebolts I dont bother blackening I use coated copper wire meant for jewellry.

Beadalon Black Artistic Wire is easily obtainable and comes in many gauges and I have found the coating is very reliable - at least as good as my efforts  in chemical blackening.

Its what I was using in the pics on my peggy log.

 

 

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Thanks OC for the good words and to John & Lee for following, welcome aboard.

 

Thanks SpyGlass for coming up with the goods again. I ordered some Beadalon Black Artistic Wire because I’m up for cheating too if it saves time. I’ve also ordered the following to play around with so I can hopefully master the ironmongery side of things:

 

Bare Brass Wire (0.4 & 0.5mm) from wires.co.uk here

Birchwood Casey Brass Black from Amazon UK here 

Black Enamelled Brass Wire (0.5mm) from wires.co.uk here

Artistic Black Enamelled Brass Wire (0.4 & 0.5mm) from SJ Jewellery Supplies here

 

Thanks to SpyGlass and all who commented on my “Black Wire” post here

 

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Thanks Denis

 

9 hours ago, popeye the sailor said:

.......your putting some thought into this projects

I thought I’d better cos I know your watching ;) 

I’m living and breathing it at the moment. Learning lots of new skills and getting lots of inspiration from all you guys.

 

I haven’t made much progress to look at over the last few days as I have been mainly researching and sourcing materials. I’m currently building a Syren/Chuck gun carriage (and jigs for the others) and these are looking favourites up to now. 

 

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Forgot to say my RB guns arrived a while ago so I can now decide on which carriage and gun combination I’m going for.

 

First I built one of the Syren/Chuck carriages using a simple jig to get the slight taper of the frames correct to the axles.

IMG_E2869.thumb.JPG.a51e146397e59f53c3deebe3b4d886cc.JPG

 

I made some more jigs for drilling the holes for gun tackle loops and rings. I made a left and right hand as I drilled the holes by hand so they might not have been square enough to drill from the inside to outside without errors (I think that makes sense).

IMG_E2860.thumb.JPG.80299ee861da24f745c9fdb9914ae856.JPG

 

I was up for a challenge so thought I would make the quoin handles. Instead of turning the supplied matchsticks I opted for using cocktail sticks glued into a 0.7mm hole and very carefully whittled and sanded by hand once the glue was well set.

IMG_E2863.thumb.JPG.60576f3b5ddaa431bfdbd57efe7a5dbc.JPG

IMG_E2866.thumb.JPG.bdda05b8eb8dd8c88c66d7c336124666.JPG

 

Here are the three sets side by side for comparison

IMG_2850.thumb.JPG.c4330b04de7bbf393911b58c359f69f1.JPG

 

Kit supplied seems a bit high

IMG_2851.thumb.JPG.3f26682f41ea72ebd0063a9a32e008ab.JPG

 

Two views of the RB Gun on Syren carriage (without quoin) appears spot on

IMG_2852.thumb.JPG.5c549ff42c3874df54490d941c09115d.JPG

IMG_E2857.thumb.JPG.f8e27ac824e6e714f2ef102b9d58854e.JPG

 

 

I’ve discounted the kit supplied set altogether. From the other 2 sets I prefer the Syren/Chuck carriage to the Fly upgrade ones but I prefer the RB 32mm gun as it is closer to scale than the other two, as you can see here.

IMG_E2900.thumb.JPG.a9eef28f8b0e8ce73ff9a0f974a553e6.JPG

 

The only thing I’m not happy about the RB gun is the pivot point which is about 2mm too far back which exaggerates the following problem with the quoin fitted half way.

IMG_E2875.thumb.JPG.ddfef3fec7cd4896316b74e2c98b5bd3.JPG

 

Without the quoin it looks ok

IMG_E2876.thumb.JPG.fca5ef8ba88e93cb625463b7b3266f7f.JPG

 

Viewed from above the RB gun also looks better than the Syren/Chuck one

 

RB gun on Syren/Chuck carriage

IMG_E2877.thumb.JPG.546df9e41fde59cb16c010e2128b13ca.JPG

 

Syren/Chuck gun on Syren/Chuck carriage. Gun is too slim, to my eye

IMG_E2899.thumb.JPG.b97b1e7ec26bb8ee0e45322e708aa17d.JPG

 

 

I’ve finally decided on the RB 32mm gun together with the Syren/Chuck carriage but I need to fix the problem of the severe downward angle with quoin fitted, which I will come too shortly.

 

First I thought I would check the assembly drawing and it appears as though Chris Watton has drawn the guns at the correct scale, according to the FFM books, but Amati have just thrown in some generic oversize ones as you can see here. My chosen combination is shown on the right, which looks spot on.

IMG_E2901.thumb.JPG.139bf18904f5bfd602a4b16e414fef4f.JPG

 

 

I think I can fix the problem of the severe downward angle with quoin fitted by reducing the thickness of a few parts as shown by the shading here

IMG_E2910.thumb.JPG.27e0a30e211e5f0b2db736cfdeb69b01.JPG

 

Not sure yet by how much exactly but my best guess is about 2mm in total .

 

Up next are some attempts at gun tackle eye and ring making, silver soldering and blacking which are all new skills for me to master (or not :rolleyes:) .

 

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Thanks SpyGlass, Mike & Denis.

 

SpyGlass - It was a surprise to me how oversize the kit guns sets are too. I suppose that is why the Fly upgrade (Pegasus) carriages were offered to go some way to rectify but the guns are still 6mm (1.25ft) too big. The Fly Upgrade/Pegasus carriages are close to scale put the quality isn’t too good, especially the wheels and fragile axles. The Syren/Chuck carriages are top notch.

 

Mike - I think it was your use of the RB guns that prompted me to look at them so thanks for that.

 

Denis - yes I agree. If I file the carriages to seat the trunnion better I will lower by about 0.5mm.

 

I’ve done this and the other mods I mentioned and can now use the quoin at mid point and the gun is level.

I’ll show a picture in my next update. 

 

Update on our Portsmouth trip - were going this next Sunday for 5 nights. The Admiral is so excited :rolleyes: ;)

 

 

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It’s been a while but as you know, if you’ve been following, we spent a week in Portsmouth which was very exciting, for me anyway. I learnt so much. If you get chance it’s well worth a visit and there is so much to see at the Historic Dockyard there, where we spent 3 days looking at all the attractions. We went on the HMS Victory twice and really got a feel of what it must have been like to sail and work on her back in the day. Elsewhere at the Dockyard, I particularly liked Boathouse 4 where you can have a guided tour and see experienced and student boat builders at work building new boats and restoring old ones. They nearly roped me in as a volunteer, which I was very tempted by as full training would have been given, but I live just 270 miles too far away.

 

For anyone that’s interested in visiting take a look here
http://www.historicdockyard.co.uk/index.php

 

Anyway back to my build… I’ve been concentrating my labours on building one gun and carriage set to determine height and also the method of building the others.

I have been playing around with different ways of doing the gun tackle eyes and rings. I’ve tried with pre-blacked enamel coated copper wire and bare copper wire which was blacked afterwards and to cut a long story short (full story here), here are my findings.

 

The breaching tackle eyes/loops & rings done to scale at 1:64 & (full size) would be
* eye loops - 0.2 wire & 0.6mm hole (1/2” & 1-1/2”)
* breeching ring - 0.35 wire & 1.2mm hole (7/8” & 3”)
* breaching rope - 0.5mm (1-1/4”)

 

Here are my attempts at the Breeching rings in both black Jewellery wire and Bare Copper. The divisions are mm by the way.

Everything is almost to scale but I have made changes as shown below. I rounded the 0.35mm up to 0.4mm because that’s all I have and the 0.2mm up to 0.3mm because I found the 0.2 wire too thin and a pig to work with.


* eye loops - 0.2  0.3 wire & 0.6mm hole (1/2” & 1-1/2”)
* breeching ring - 0.35 0.4 wire & 1.2mm hole (7/8” & 3”)
* breaching rope - 0.5mm (1-1/4”)

 

IMG_E2911.thumb.JPG.6b914a4aecb8b49df009741963fb9649.JPG

 

Here is the almost finished gun and carriage set

 

Note the scribed line to simulate the two halves of the side piece (bracket)

IMG_3034.thumb.JPG.603892c03e968ba47183c5e29fea0184.JPG

 

Note the GR/Crown monogram super glued onto the gun

IMG_3030.thumb.JPG.a6ec58c2efc183c64e04286cfe3691bc.JPG

 

IMG_3042.thumb.jpg.8baa6009f7b7f0b3f979c4d3af92e0ab.jpg

 

Just in case you think it’s a full size canon I’ve photographed (it could be a really MASSIVE pencil though ;)

IMG_3039.thumb.JPG.4e7c8c2af4acb95b232de302b61db166.JPG

 

Just to recap what we have here:
* Carriage is from Chuck/Syren
* Gun is 32mm from RB Models
* Eyes/loops are twisted bare copper (blacked) - 0.3 wire & 0.6mm hole
* Breeching rings are silver soldered bare copper (blacked) - 0.4 wire & 1.2mm hole
* Carriage bolts (6 vertical bracket bolts, Bed bolt and Transom bolt) blacked brass - 0.7mm
* GR/Crown monograms are etched brass parts supplied in the Fly Upgrade set (curved to match curve of gun)

 

My Blackening routine was:
1 Clean in hot soapy water with an old toothbrush and rinse in water
2 Soak in White Vinegar for 10 minutes and rinse in water
3 Soak in neat Birchwood Casey Brass Black (BCBB) for about 30 secs and rinse in water
4 Clean any CA residue patches (not blacked) with Acetone
5 Polish with paper towel
6 repeat previous steps from 3 until satisfied (3 or 4 times I found for me)
 

I didn’t get a true black finish but I’m reasonable happy with the dark grey that I got.

 

The gun tackle eyes/loops were inset into the Brackets by creating a horizontal groove across the hole with the help of this screwdriver I modified

 

5ae0e40c40238_IMG_3030(2).JPG.21842bfe376b103a0fbc40d75f29e560.JPG IMG_3040.thumb.jpg.ba423c6ce92d984796baf21149ab7e82.jpg

 

 

Work still to do on this one are the Truck keys and the cap squares and bolts and then it’s only another 15 to do :o

 

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Thanks OC & SpyGlass for your kind words.

 

Yes the thing that surprised me most about the Victory was how low the beams are. I’m not tall at 5’ 9” but managed to bang my head quite a few times (I’m now 5’ 11” with all the bumps on my head :(). Lord Nelson was 5’ 4” so he would have been ok I think.

 

I’m still doing a bit, mainly de-charring the laser cut gun carriage parts,  scribing and drilling the brackets for the ironmongery. Very time consuming but I’m really enjoying this part of the build. Picture update soon when I have some visible progress to show.

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John, that's a really well executed authentic looking cannon and carriage, well done.  The consensus seems to be building on the RB barrel, Syren carriage combo.  I too had the same issue with the thickness of the stool bed causing the elevation problem with the quoin, I replaced these with custom cut 1mm thick parts which visually is not too different but your approach is much purer.  My thinking was swayed I think by having 28 of the blighters to do...

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Thanks Jason & Denis for your good words. 

 

Jason - my approach to reduce the gun angle isn’t much different to what you did. This is what I ended up doing.

* Turn the bolster through 90deg. Bolster was 2.2 high x 1.7mm wide so after turning 90 deg becomes 1.7 high x 2.2 wide. This drops things down by 0.5mm

* At the end of the stool bed that sits on the bolster, reduce the thickness from 1.7mm to 1.0mm. This drops things down by a further 0.7mm

* Because the top surface of the stool bed is now 1.2mm lower it can no longer sit on top of the bed bolt so I drilled a 0.7mm hole through the centre of the stool bed.

 

Hopefully these pictures will explain

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Stool bed mods

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Denis - looking at real life cannons definitely helped me with getting the detail something like so my recent trip was very much worthwhile. I noticed you haven’t come up for air after your terrific Norden build and you’re straight into another one. I will be following with interest but please catch your breath first ;)

 

 

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Hi John -- I have just now discovered your build log, and am very impressed with your progress and skill.  Those guns look fantastic -- the iron work is meticulous for such a small scale.  And getting the quoins to fit proved to be too much of a challenge for me, so I'm envious of your success. 

 

Can't wait to see more!

 

Cheers,

 

Martin

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Thanks for the kind words Martin & BE. I’ve studied in detail both your amazing Fly/Pegasus builds which have been an inspiration for my Fly build so thank you. 

 

I have to to apologise for the slump in my progress but I assure you it’s only temporary. This is the summer home for my Fly 😭

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We’ve had a cracking summer here in the UK and the Admiral and I can’t bear to be stuck inside. Normal service will be resumed when it get colder and wetter, which it will. 

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