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Chuck

**Banned Kit Manufacturers on MSW - Pirated KITS Prohibited **

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Many of you may be aware that there are some kit manufacturers that have been banned from Model Ship World.  These are mostly Chinese companies that rip off and duplicate other kits from reputable manufacturers.  We dont want to support such thievery. I have personally been ripped off by ZHL.   They stole my Confederacy plans and actually include it in their kit.  Its an awful kit to boot!!

 

Please make note that no build logs from these MFGs will be allowed on Model Ship World

 

And we have allowed some other kits which were original, but made by these same crooked companies to remain....BUT NOT ANY LONGER. I know of two others but after the great crash of 2013 they are now gone.  ..from this point forward.....NO KITS BY THESE MFGs WILL EVER BE ALLOWED ON THIS SITE. Here is the list of crooked ship model MFGs banned from MSW

ZHL

RealTS 

Snail Model

XinFeng 
JD Model 
LHQK 
Shi Cheng 

woodenkit (Russian MFG)
YengFan 
Unicorn Model 
YQ 

Master

CN

CF

shi hai

4H Model

CAFModel

Moxing

WN

SC

DUJIAOSHOU

 

These include all of those kits everyone rationalizes in their head are not stolen but actually are....like the zhl Royal Caroline and Ingerlandman kits.   As well as many others.   The plans and building patterns for every aspect of those two projects were stolen from the same master builder in Russia.  He made the mistake of posting them online for all to see just like so many do here on MSW in their build logs and drafting forums (ie Triton).  And they were almost immediately stolen.  So you may not find a manufacturer who made the kit but I can find the original sources pretty quickly.  In fact....please PM me BEFORE you buy one and I will let you know who it was stolen from.  I have yet to find a wooden kit by a Chinese MFG that wasnt stolen.  

 

 

Our forum RULES to this regard.

 

Kits/Plans/Parts:  If a company/individual is known to have pirated either plans or designs from another source in order to profit from the original author's work...stolen really.  Use of those plans, kits or parts is prohibited on MSW.  Promotion of those pirated plans and or kits and or companies that sell them is also prohibited, whether on MSW or anywhere else.  If you are building one of these pirated kits on another site, you will still lose your privileges here on MSW. No links may be posted to sites that sell or promote pirated products unless approved by admin.

 

Thank You very much in advance.......repeat offenders will be warned....or worse.  If you are found to be building, buying, praising any pirated kit/company from the list of banned MFG's, or promoting the advancement of listed companies and individuals you will be promptly banned from MSW.  Don't even bring it up!  If you have a different opinion about this, it is not one that we share and you can no longer be an MSW member.

 

If someone is found commenting, or posting statements of approval, or
appreciation towards other individuals who may be in the process of building or buying
one of these products it will help legitimize the products and that is frowned upon.

 

Should anyone disagree with this please send me a PM.  No public scrutiny or anything.....but we will simply agree to part ways.  I can remove you from this forum and all will be forgotten in short order.  But these are the rules and viewpoint of MSW/NRG and we have every right to not allow anyone on the site who doesn't share our values and ethics towards pirating...you are more than welcome to do it elsewhere.   So make a choice....please respect the rules or you will lose your privileges to continue on as a member of MSW.   





Chuck

Admin

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Hi Chuck,

 

I'm trying to find your forum for the Syren but can't seem to on the site. No phone listed for the site so I'm hoping you can direct me. Thanks very much.

 

Lee

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Read the topic about it in the general discussion forum.

 

Chuck

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Its good to have that list for novices who are looking to buy a kit.  Besides the fact that these kits are rip-offs, the list will protect novices from buying poor quality kits.

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Thanks for the list. I support Model Ship World in there efforts to ban Pirated Model Ship Kits. In addition to Financial damage they do to to the Quality ship Model manufactures they provide a Model ship full of frustration for the modeler trying to build a quality model ship.   

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Kudos to anyone not buying Chinese kits.  As someone who was at the mercy of having to use Chinese parts to try to make a quality American made product, I support anybody who refuses to buy Chinese.  I worked for a company that manufactured small hydraulic units and due to owners' greed for more and more profit, was forced to use Chinese manufactured crap.  There was always better than a 25% rejection rate on those parts and a failure rate on finished hydraulic units that met or surpassed this, as no matter what part in the assemblies, there was that same 25%  bad parts ratio.

Edited by crazy yank

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I've never heard of those kit manufacturers, and am surprised anyone would knock-off a ship model kit. There aren't huge volumes sold and that is usually the biggest incentive to copy existing products.

 

I've seen threads speculating on the ratio of ship model kits started vs. the number of ship model kits actually finished as very many started, but very few finished. I guess they only expect to sell one single unit to each customer knowing they will probably never finish it. Unfortunately that is at the expense of the good manufacturers hoping to make money by getting people hooked on the hobby. Also at the expense of the clubs that will lose people to other interests when their first ship is harder than it should really be.

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maybe not huge volumes HSM, but i bet these "companies" run a very cheap setup and wil probably profit after selling only a few kits.

and ofcourse they specualte heavily on the buyer never finishing it.

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Apparently, there is a big demand for kit models in China …. an un-tapped and ignored  market for the good MFG’s

 

Kudos on banning the these Manufactures  from the site and asking members to not purchase from them

 

It should be an item at the top of the logon page

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Thank you for enacting the ban.

 

I see double damage, the obvious one of stealing the market of legitimate manufacturers and the less obvious of turning promising builders away from the hobby through frustration.

 

Just as a note: I recently did extensive research on the web and on bulletin boards like this to decide what manufacture and what kit to buy for my first POB model.  I never encountered any of these companies in that time.  Perhaps you are winning...?

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In the beginning they were copying german  cars - and now ship model kits

Edited by sandorm

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China is know for their reverse technology, Makes me wonder and it's hard to imagine just what a model ship would actually look like,

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you know  probably every manufacturer in the world uses reverse technology when a competitor has got something new on the market

 

the difference is that they dont make an exact copy (on the outside that is) of the original and sell it as the real thing or use plans and instructions  of the original in . they use the knowledge to make their own version of it.

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I support you 100%.

I own a hardware store in Jhb, you cannot believe the quality of tools they try sell to us.

 

They copy anything and everything.

Have you ever seen a garden tap with holes in it or a drill that burns out after being used only once?

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Janos

 

its not about punishing people but about preventing people from buying these copied kits.

 

if every model ship forum would do the same and make the members aware of why then less of these kits are sold and the less unfair profit they make

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Hi, Janos.  Yes, it is unfortunate that some people purchase these kits unawares, and yes, some are no doubt saddened that their builds of these kits are not welcome here.  This same pirating issue exists for card models and is far more pervasive since, in the case of card models, all a pirate needs is a scanner and color copier.  No one seems willing to go after these people, so the only way for us as a community to do our part is to present a united front.  In many instances, the designers of the original models (wood, card, or whatever) are our friends, and it is for that reason (at least for me) that I will do whatever I can to let the pirates know that I will not purchase their wares, I will not turn a blind eye to their activities, and I will not aid them the least little bit in ripping off my friends -- which means I will not give them any face time on MSW, either directly or indirectly.  I don't consider this punishment for the unsuspecting -- I consider this standing up for my friends and for personal integrity.

 

Cheers!

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I am very new to this hobby, but I will support this ban as well. Glad I read it!

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Words of warning to anyone thinking about purchasing one of these kits....DON'T DO IT!!!!!!!!!!!

I personally purchased the 1:50 scale of the San Felipe' from ZHL, what a piece of crap!!!!!! The plans were definately ripped off of Mantua/Panart and they didn't even attempt to make them seem original. (Still in Italian) The materials (woods) were CRAP and they couldn't even supply all the fittings needed. Cannons not being bored out, etc. Luckily I have been building ships for many years and have a huge supply of extras and wood so any shortcomings in the kit were made up of my personal stock. The only reason the ship turned out well is because of my extensive experience to overcome their sh--ty instructions which didn't make sense AT ALL.

The prices may tempt you but you will regret ever seeing ZHL's product.

All this and ripping off legitimate folks too.....DON'T DO IT.

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Remember, these rip-off companies do not have to pay for the cost of designing and developing these kits. All the 'front-end' costs were absorbed by the original manufacturers. That's why they can turn a profit rapidly soon after marketing their inferior product. And remember, a quality kit cannot be designed, prototype made, tested, instructional manual and plans drawn up and written overnight. Ask Chuck Passaro or Chris Watton: they know!

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Just a thought,  should we perhaps gather documentation and work with the companies who have been ripped off to get more done to slow down and possibly shut down the rip-off companies.

for example I know that US customs will stop the import of goods if they have documentation that something is a cheap knock off / violating copyright / patent / trademark etc...  and if the person who did not know gets a letter from customs that the item was not allowed in for such reason they can in most cases let the credit card company deal with getting the money back and then the cc companies will stop taking transactions for that company.

 

also the customs in the receiving country can then inform the counterparts in the country of origin of the issue.

 

I am using the US as an example as I live in the US and I know a small amount of how it works.

I used to maintain software for a chain of US stores that imported goods and they had to do all kinds of paperwork to prove they were only buying from approved mfg companies and so on.

 

yes it would mean we would need to gather information and get in touch with the government but I suspect it would be very good for new folks to the hobby and to the companies that are legit and lose business to the ripoff ones.

 

but what do you think ?  is the idea a waste of time?   is the problem to small to bother with ?  to much work for the reward?

something that the model making companies should be doing ?

 

 

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I think on here we all love it if we could shut down those companies but its not up to us but the companies ripped off that should do this as they can get better proof. for MSW to make new builders a ware of these companies so that they don't buy the crappy/ ripped off  products is already a good thing

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Janos,

Maybe so, but any builds that they do will never show up here on MSW.  After reading a few reviews above your post, if I were looking for "cheap", I'd be looking at some other company's line.

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Thank you for the list, I have actualy wrote it down for future reference. Keep up the good work on steering us clear of these nasties. Again, thank you!

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Some unscrupulous manufacturers are just that, manufacturers - but without the added expense of a research and development wing. They are right to be banned.

 

Copying other people's designs and passing them off as one's own is now a big problem in this new world of 'Globalisation'. They are cheaper because someone else has done all the hard work for them, and usually the quality and materials are inferior - but there's a large percentage who will not mind, it's cheaper so they'll buy it.

Edited by chris watton

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