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Reale De France by fmodajr - Corel - Scale 1:60

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On 10/27/2019 at 7:09 AM, GrandpaPhil said:

Sorry for this, the La Reale of 1690 and the the La Real of the Holy League (and is from 1570) were two different vessels from two different nations, which is why the flags and the color schemes are different.

 

They are extremely similar and easily confused.  I really like both ships and want both of them in my collection.

 

 The Corel kit is the ship from 1690 and the Dusek kit is the ship from 1570.

Thanks for clearing that up! I must admit I was confused by the Holy League Flags. 
Nikiforos, no need to apologize! All suggestions are very welcome!

 

Thanks,

Frank

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Hello,

I was able to get back to my work shop and make some more progress on the model.

 

I installed the sub floor for the forward gun deck.

Then I added the deck strips, using the same method (as well as the same staining) as the main deck in earlier posts.

 

295Reale.thumb.jpg.ddf0581d32a47ad3c7ff5aa1e0b2c7e0.jpg

296Reale.thumb.jpeg.a7d133302861f20f74e961eb573952d9.jpeg

 

The next step of the plans called for making L-Shaped platforms, on which the gun carriages mount on top of.

After cutting L-Shaped strips to the correct length, I painted them black.

 

298Reale.thumb.jpeg.87da8d7f74be5d52334b251f06cca586.jpeg

297Reale.thumb.jpeg.5a0238a3749882a97e0ddc7374bbf9d9.jpeg

 

I stopped myself from glueing the L-Shaped platforms to the gun deck, because it occurred to me that I should make the gun carriages first, so that I get the width (spacing) correct for these.

The carriages were easy to make.

 

299Reale.thumb.jpeg.7d894c55177569f32d33530310321eb3.jpeg

300Reale.thumb.jpeg.909f282f890dc2e52065e5c973474f0e.jpeg

301Reale.thumb.jpg.d87243d303a224849660054a10d68dae.jpg

 

Once the carriages were made I realized that I didn't have the rigging plans for the carriages. Luckily, between the "Fleur de Lis" Monograph and some visits to the internet, I found the rigging layouts.

I started with the biggest gun carriage in the center.

Added the sheaves in front of the carriage.

 

302Reale.thumb.jpeg.36f810f15d8a45de4c226f41a423bcfc.jpeg

 

Rigged the two lines.

Not quite sure if the lines are to pass under the cannon and on top of the carriage, as shown on this photo,

or if the lines should pass back on the outsides of the carriage.

Will have to do some more research!

303Reale.thumb.jpeg.025d09abe0fbfaef36a7770a76fedcbd.jpeg

 

Now to rig the remaining 4 cannon and build the anchor pulleys that will sit on the edges of the gun deck!

 

Thanks for visiting and Happy Thanksgiving!!

 

Frank


 

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I am not sure but just for logic: Is there also a rig needed to pull the canon back?

Enjoying your report.

Clark

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3 hours ago, Clark said:

I am not sure but just for logic: Is there also a rig needed to pull the canon back?

Enjoying your report.

Clark

Hello Clark,

 

Thanks for stopping by!

You bring up an excellent point.

I couldn't find anything that shows a rig in the back. Was it because the carriage is mounted on a relatively steeply angled platform? Did the carriage slide back on its own gravity?

275Reale.thumb.jpeg.aac1ab3237f3fbeb3c48cf433a7dc9cb.jpeg278Reale.thumb.jpeg.b9447c19fa3ab8b959263aaf1fe5a95f.jpeg

Anyway I will keep looking. The carriages on either side of this one have holes drilled thru them and breeching rope running thru them preventing them from going back. Working on them now. Will have photos soon.

 

Thanks,

Frank

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Frank,

  I don’t see anything about rigging for the guns in the AAMM plans either.  I also don’t see any in the photo of the built model either.

  I find it interesting that the carriages aren’t wheeled, so I wonder if they were hard mounted in place.

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1 hour ago, GrandpaPhil said:

Frank,

  I don’t see anything about rigging for the guns in the AAMM plans either.  I also don’t see any in the photo of the built model either.

  I find it interesting that the carriages aren’t wheeled, so I wonder if they were hard mounted in place.

Hello Phil,

Thank you for all the assistance.

I don't believe the carriages were mounted in place, (but not sure)

I found this photo of a "Fleur de Lis" beautiful model by R. Courgeon which shows the abutting carriages with breach ropes. (See green arrows)

IMG_0274.thumb.jpeg.dba66f567a3b3ac1eb5be88bcef5ce88.jpeg

It also shows that the 2 smallest carriages at each end were just fastened to the front horizontal wood beam.

Anyway, with the carriages so tight next to each other, i'm wondering if the cannon balls were loaded from the front deck!!

 

Thanks again,

Frank

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As always - great work Frank, and Happy Thanksgiving to all.

 

I think that loading cannon balls from the front may be the key;  there would be no need for haul-out tackles in that scenario.  One would only need the haul-in tackles after firing.

 

As I know really nothing about these Galley ships, I wonder whether they are equipped with a hatchway on this short beakhead deck, through which cannon balls and cartridges might be passed.

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42 minutes ago, fmodajr said:

Hello Phil,

Thank you for all the assistance.

I don't believe the carriages were mounted in place, (but not sure)

I found this photo of a "Fleur de Lis" beautiful model by R. Courgeon which shows the abutting carriages with breach ropes. (See green arrows)

IMG_0274.thumb.jpeg.dba66f567a3b3ac1eb5be88bcef5ce88.jpeg

It also shows that the 2 smallest carriages at each end were just fastened to the front horizontal wood beam.

Anyway, with the carriages so tight next to each other, i'm wondering if the cannon balls were loaded from the front deck!!

 

Thanks again,

Frank

There is still the question where the cannon balls and the gun powder were stored when loaded from the front deck. I am also wondering how the carriages and canons were handled when they were such tight to each other.

Clark

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Hello,

Thank you all for your thoughts and likes!

 

Clark has a great point (in the post above this one) about how tight the carriages and canons are to each other!

I started work on the two carriages on each side of the large center one.

First I installed the L-shaped platforms that the carriages sat on (See green arrows)

304Reale.thumb.jpeg.34531fd0eeb9883364148d729422c95c.jpeg

 

Then I rigged up the breaching ropes (lines) and attached the carriages to the platforms. Very tight fit trying to work on these lines.

305Reale.thumb.jpeg.baa7a6eb7d71122254ba7804ba91bdbe.jpeg

I added the sheaves to the front support and rigged the haul lines. Again, very tight fit. I will coil the lines later in the build when I decide where to put the coils.

 

306Reale.thumb.jpeg.9890f8a55d2b947564266d0cbf8c3d0b.jpeg

307Reale.thumb.jpeg.6a25a41dc76e15cc187c225305fb212d.jpeg

 

I will be adding the canon later in the build, after work is finished in the bow area, but I just placed them on to see how far they would extend into the bow area.

 

308Reale.thumb.jpeg.2850b32a25b08fc3f0b9c4c3c5a3f379.jpeg

309Reale.thumb.jpeg.2138c0780f3dd89cf21c9d1ebe2504c4.jpeg

310Reale.thumb.jpeg.0d1d58f0a6254be4257e7a9061c3cefb.jpeg

 

Now i will turn my attention to the last two smaller canon that will sit to the sides of the carriages I just made.

 

Thanks again for visiting,

 

Frank

 

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Frank, it looks perfect. But I am still wondering if the carriages have to be secured differently (as in other ships) depending on the status of the ship: in fight or on trip. (Do not know if thats the correct english expression, hope you know what I mean.) Thus you may have to decide how you want to present your ship later on.

Clark

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Frank,

Just catching up - superb attentions to details  indeed. Just guessing here, but the Reale was certainly just a decorative ship used to transport the king - similar to carriages of the time. So - again guessing - that

fully rigging carriages/guns was certainly less important as it would never have been used in fighting - guns might have been fired to announce an arrival - Did some searching at Google University but found very little. Interesting thread in any case. Also these bow cannons with be mostly covered. Clark's two photos might just be a perfect guide.

 

Cheers,  

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Clark,

Thank you for your comments. It is appreciated. I agree. I just have to decide how I want the ship (model) to be presented!

 

Michael,

As always, thank you for your input and research. Everything you stated makes sense to me :)

 

I will continue to use the monograph of "La Fleur de Lis" as a guide and the beautiful model by R. Courgeon, as I have been trying to do where applicable.

 

Thanks to all for visiting.

Frank

 

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5 hours ago, fmodajr said:

Clark,

Thank you for your comments. It is appreciated. I agree. I just have to decide how I want the ship (model) to be presented!

 

Michael,

As always, thank you for your input and research. Everything you stated makes sense to me :)

 

I will continue to use the monograph of "La Fleur de Lis" as a guide and the beautiful model by R. Courgeon, as I have been trying to do where applicable.

 

Thanks to all for visiting.

Frank

 

Frank, via Google I found an article of "Florian Vitz" describing a picture/painting of La Reale (in German) with a lot of details but not the cannons. Do you know what/where the picture/painting can be found? It might help with the cannon question.

Clark

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Hi Clark,

 

I have been searching all over the internet, but I can't find the painting you are looking for. I did find references to the French warship "La Reale" which is not the same ship ad the Reale de France.

 

thanks,

Frank

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Hi Frank,

I have  inserted part of text I found above. Vitz refers to Belin and Goussier as the artists behind the painting/drawing. Any idea?

Clark

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7 hours ago, Clark said:

Hi Frank,

I have  inserted part of text I found above. Vitz refers to Belin and Goussier as the artists behind the painting/drawing. Any idea?

Clark

Sorry, I can't help you Clark.

I don't speak German and I tried to find the Belin Goussier painting online and was unsuccessful.

 

Frank

 

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I copied a picture of the text into my Google Translate App.  This is what it came up with:

 

La Réale - Royal Palaces and Galley Vows by Florian Vitz The viewer sees a detailed drawing of a ship with PI.  | I is numbered.  Subtitled is the drawing with the words "Marine, Dessein d'une Galere à la Rame nommée la Réale" .² Based on the accompanying text from the maritime area of the Encyclopédie and the explanation at the bottom left edge of the picture, the observer learns that the drawing of M  Belin was made.3 Jacques-Nicolas Belin (1703-1772) was a well-known nautical cartographer, 4 who played a major role in the creation of maritime articles such as the corresponding encyclopédie (planches) prints.5 However, the present  Image panel around a copy of Belin's original drawing.  Consequently, the illustrator is the Louis-Jacques Goussier (1722-1799) image-plate.  He was a mathematician, draftsman and Diderot's mechanical arts assistant.7 The right side (starboard) of the ship can be seen.  At the stern of the ship (A), the observer sees some elaborate engravings that can be recognized on the outside.  Along the railing at the stern are two figures with wings recognizable.  Next is one

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2 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Is this, by chance, the painting you are searching for:

 

F78F20AF-120B-4B28-8E3E-7B9155A23A36.thumb.png.3a9d9aab56ed021fb0f2cb88243a8d97.png

 

Thank you for your assistance.

I'm not quite sure what Clark, in the post above, is looking for. Hopefully this will help him.

Thanks,

Frank 

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Hi Frank and Hubac's Historian,

thanks a lot for helping me. The painting is really helpful in building the ship but unfortunately it is probably not the one described by Vitz. It can be read that the starboard side is shown and not the portside. Moreover it is probably a drawing and not a painting. Meanwhile I figured out the the text copied is part of a thesis written at the Universtity of Duesseldorf (near the river Rhine, near France??). I will try to get in contact with the University to figure out the sources.

Can you send me the link, where the painting of the Paris Museum can be looked at? There is no accdess via the website of the museum at least the way I tried.

Thanks a lot

Clark

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Hi Clark,

 

This image came from my Pinterest page, French Vaisseaux.

 

When I clicked the embedded link, it just took me to a blank page.  All I have for you is the partial web address you see in the screen capture, above.

 

However, if you visit my Pinterest page, you will find nearly 900 images of French ships from the 17th and 18th century; portraits, models, etc.  As far as I know, it is the most extensive database of related imagery on the web.

 

Check it out - there’s other Galley stuff in there, as well.

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21 hours ago, Hubac's Historian said:

Hi Clark,

 

This image came from my Pinterest page, French Vaisseaux.

 

When I clicked the embedded link, it just took me to a blank page.  All I have for you is the partial web address you see in the screen capture, above.

 

However, if you visit my Pinterest page, you will find nearly 900 images of French ships from the 17th and 18th century; portraits, models, etc.  As far as I know, it is the most extensive database of related imagery on the web.

 

Check it out - there’s other Galley stuff in there, as well.

Found it, perfect! Clark

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Hello,

Making some more progress on the gun carriages.

 

I added the final 2 gun carriage supports on each side of the center cannon.

The Fleur de Lis plans show the support on the left butting up with the one in place for the cannon shown.

311Reale.thumb.jpeg.f2060b746cf9a7175d5335440cc0bf30.jpeg

312Reale.thumb.jpeg.d9435d993e5c4444b76e0c123a959c58.jpeg

The smallest carriage is rigged with a line shown here.

313Reale.thumb.jpeg.977720be42f481b98b927f199c99979a.jpeg

 

All carriages installed in place.

314Reale.thumb.jpeg.dc1976552b0872aef6a45dace267a3f2.jpeg

 

So, while fabricating and installing the carriages, one thing has been bothering me and I was hoping to get some opinions from you who have been following this log.

 

I temporarily placed the guns that came with the kit onto the carriages (see the next two photos) and I am worried that the two cannon (see green arrows) on each side of the center cannon are a little too big and out of scale.

315Reale.thumb.jpeg.d6124d16a8c7cba44b514e4bb68cea2d.jpeg
 

316Reale.thumb.jpeg.66b996a810e4f40cea76dee27292b799.jpeg

 

I found some smaller cannon and placed them in the next 2 photos.

They feel more to scale, but I would have to find a replacement for the center one, since the style is different from the ones I had in my stash. (I am planning to blacken or paint black the cannons later)

 

317Reale.thumb.jpeg.eab11c2e5931226b91c3abd837582c35.jpeg

318Reale.thumb.jpeg.fc5c88bf62dfb81869d5a10d02563826.jpeg

 

Any thoughts or opinions would be appreciated. Am I over thinking this? On the "La Fleur de Lis" plans, the cannon look to be smaller than the ones the Corel kit provides.

 

Thanks again for visiting,

Frank

 

 

315Reale.jpeg

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Hi Frank,

 

The scale of the kit guns does not bother me, and in fact, I find them to be quite nicely proportioned castings.  I like them as they are.  Your build had me browsing Heller Reale builds and the artillery on that kit is also quite stout.

 

Some have posited the opinion that the Van de Veldes, for example, may have exaggerated the scale of artillery on their ship portraits, but I do not believe this is so.

 

The Galleys were, in fact, intended to be fighting ships, and not merely transports for the king. 

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Hi Frank.   The cannons don`t look that bad to me - maybe just a tad big,but with this kit being 1/60 scale I don`t think they are that far off.   But,as they say,my opinions are usually worth what you paid for them;).   Go with whatever you like better & no one would ever know the difference after seeing the great hull work you are doing!  

 

Mark

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Hi Frank, I am not as experienced as Hubac s Historian. But just on logical grounds: I would draw the ropes for the middle carriage the other way around the wheels: outside in. At present the ropes get in close contact with the carriage wich would damage them (when the ship would really be in fight).

Clark

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