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tigerdvr

Coiling Lines Option

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I’ve never been able to coil rigging very well even though there have been any number of great tips and hints offered on this website.

I am working on the ME Confederacy and am using a paper pattern to simulate the canvas covering for the great cabin. No contact cement was available so I picked up a Scotch Glue Stick which worked well laying the “canvas” down on the planks.

Then a little light bulb went off and I wondered if this easily handled adhesive could be used to coil rope. I simply dragged a length of line across the top of the Glue Stick, wrapped the line around the base of a dowel (1/4” in this trial) to the depth I wanted. Stripped the coiled rope off the dowel and had a very nice coiled rope. Fast, simple, & inexpensive. You can use a similar drill storing extra rope length on belaying pins. Check out Kevin Kenny’s video for some useful hints on setting up a jig.

The coils held their shape with no problems.

Cheers, Harley

GrdCbnDk2.jpg.f32a754b3fa9eec022c54220c4384c69.jpg574206281_Ropes3.jpg.6f09495d1141927cc8f27fd4ffe9415c.jpg72938609_Ropes10.jpg.5322be368d4819678bf62bb548832972.jpg284931848_Ropes12.jpg.21f4b2605d39feb9255038cd4920c0d5.jpg631862361_Ropes7.jpg.c52d5e87ce00c8d482cc44a1b9af4754.jpg640575897_Ropes1.jpg.358057fc399ca6823d99a83f8b22e2ce.jpg

 

Edited by tigerdvr
Left word out

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I tend to use thin organic-solvent based lacquer for this. Drape/coil it and then soak in the lacquer, so that the rope becomes stiff. Further adjustments can be made by applying a drop of the respective thinner - the rope becomes soft again and can be coerced into shape. If you find a solvent for the glue-stick glue, this may also be an option.

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Another trick you can use is double sided tape. Stick one side to your work surface and the coil your lines using the sticky tape to keep in place. You can the use watered down white glue to fix the coils. Let it dry and remove from tape. I used this method to get the coils next to the canons in this picture.

20180914_160205.jpg

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On ‎9‎/‎14‎/‎2018 at 4:53 AM, wefalck said:

I tend to use thin organic-solvent based lacquer for this. Drape/coil it and then soak in the lacquer, so that the rope becomes stiff. Further adjustments can be made by applying a drop of the respective thinner - the rope becomes soft again and can be coerced into shape. If you find a solvent for the glue-stick glue, this may also be an option.

Does the lacquer method have fumes?

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8 hours ago, wefalck said:

Not sure what you mean by 'fumes'. You would use only a tiny drop of lacquer/varnish, applied with a brush, you wouldn't dowse the model in it. The stuff I am using is very similar to nail-varnish and smells like that as well. Actually, I like that smell.

I didn't anticipate dowsing the model but some people are more susceptible to various fluids than others. That's why so many stains, paints, lacquers, etc. are specific on use in well ventilated areas. 

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Wefalck,

 

I like your lacquer idea and I am not concerned by the fume issue.

 

My question is, once you have the finished coil what adhesive do you to glue it in place?  Is more Lacquer strong enough? I dislike using CA glues, and the PVA glues  are unlikely to stick to the lacquered surface.  The two sided tape seems messy and I have yet to find any that is dependable over a long time.

 

Roger

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As I certainly stated here repeatedly, I never use CA glues for anything else, but proper joints. I certainly do not use it to re-enforce any rigging. The lacquer or varnish I use is called (in German) zapon-varnish. It cellulose-based and contains also components that keep it slightly elastic. It's main traditional use is to protect silverware and brass (instruments) from tarnishing.

 

The very varnish also keeps rope coils in place. Of course, one can use a lacquer or varnish as glue too.

 

Below a couple of pictures of various types of coils, all coerced in place with varnish. The first picture shows how the coils are shaped and kept in their place, while the solvent evaporates - usually in a few minutes.

 

http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/models/botter/BotterModel/BotterModel-139.jpg

 

http://www.maritima-et-mechanika.org/maritime/models/botter/BotterModel/BotterModel-191.jpg

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On ‎9‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 7:12 PM, tigerdvr said:

I didn't anticipate dowsing the model but some people are more susceptible to various fluids than others. That's why so many stains, paints, lacquers, etc. are specific on use in well ventilated areas. 

Not to beat you up about it, but I think more often than not solvent cans say "use in well ventilated areas" because the manufacturer's insurance carriers want a defense to some fool who inhales great quantities of the fumes and then sues them because he got a headache. One good rule of thumb with finishes is that if it doesn't smell like a solvent, it's almost certainly not the best material for the job. Unfortunately, with VOC content regulations today, along with propaganda that has people believing they are risking their lives cleaning a paintbrush in mineral spirits, decent paints and varnishes are getting nearly impossible to find in a lot of places.

 

I'm with Welfalck on this one. I'm not familiar with the specific brand of lacquer he mentioned. (It's probably a European product.) While thinned white glue will work, one has to wait for it to dry and set and once it is set, undoing it isn't always easy.

 

My poison of choice is standard shellac, white or orange. (So little is used that the "orange" brown doesn't affect the color of the line.) I use it "out of the can" and it's the consistency of water. One application and the denatured alcohol in which the shellac is dissolved quickly evaporates (faster even if you blow on it gently.) The line can be worked with while the shellac is drying. More shellac can be applied if need be if the line doesn't want to behave, but that's a rare event. (Too much shellac, or too many coats, actually, will cause a glossy finish that isn't where you want to go with it.) When the shellac is dried, the line will remain stiff the way you put it. If it needs to be undone, an application of denatured alcohol with a paintbrush or cotton swab will soften it. I also use shellac to set rigging knots and servings. Shellac lasts forever (or at least 5,500 years, if the Egyptian artifacts are any indication) and is highly resistant to moisture permeation. For this reason, it also makes an excellent sealer beneath varnished and painted wood.

 

And, perhaps most endearing of all, it's dirt cheap and won't go bad in the can. If it starts to thicken up over time, just add more denatured alcohol.

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Shellac is indeed a good option too. I prefer the other type of varnish, which is a solution of cellulose-nitrate (also known as gun cotton :) ) in amylacetate, ethanol, and ethylacetate, because it stays slightly elastic and is not brittle. It is essentially the same as nail varnish.

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I use white glue to seize lines as well as stiffen coils. I just put some white glue in a paper cup, add water and mix with a tooth pick. I really don't measure but it would be something on the order of 4/1 to 5/1 water to glue. You want it thin enough so that it soaks in and does not leave a visible residue on the surface. You really don't need a thick mixture to stiffen the line.

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You'll have to test as it does, to some extent vary depending on the materials and the thickness of the line and strain.  I find shrouds and other lines under tension need a bit more glue than water.  I usually start at 50/50 and go from there.   Sometimes a bit of water, other lines a bit of glue.

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I don't get all that precise or technical myself....just use a brown wood glue spread out thin....roll the rope coil up in the glue, starting in the middle and working out.  when I have the desired size of coil...I lay the end over the rest and with my fine tweezer slide the entire glued coil up and off the plastic placemat I was working on and then place the coil were I want it...make some final adjustments and then simply let it dry.  Yellow wood glue dries clear and with the tan rigging goes unnoticed.  No runs, drips ,errors.  Even if there is a bit more glue on the rope then needed it all dries clear.   Now on to something else to model.....

 

Here are some I did on a model of the Cutty Sark many years ago

 

Rob

775207_4693211681408_1915860134_o.jpg

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Just curious... how many yards of line does one of those coils represent?

 

Also when did they start using balentines? I spent some time on a schooner n we used balentines to keep running lines on deck, so when it came time to let it run it wasn't tangled on the way out. Does anyone know how many yards of any one line on a clipper ship is on deck when yards n sail are up?

 

 

 

Edited by paul ron

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I think it depends upon how many men it takes to work the line when the line is at its shortest length - when the sails or not set.  It would also depend upon which line.  Fore example the courses have very long tacks and sheets to accommodate the long runs to the fore and aft sheaves, blocks, winches and even capstan.   

Edited by keelhauled

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The running end would need to factor in both the working room (length) needed to work the line, but also to allow the full/maximum extension of the tackle etc.    Therefore the length of the 'tail' would vary.

 

cheers

 

Pat

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Lets say it was 100' of rope on deck. A coil would be enormous let alone how badly it would foul when run up again.

 

That brings me to the balentine method of coiling a working line on deck.

 

Ive never seen balentines on model ships but when I was on a schooner as a hand we used balentines on all working ropes. It doesnt foul.

 

So I was wondering why no one is using this method on models? Does anyone know when balentines come into use?

 

 

 

.

 

 

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