Jump to content
CPDDET

Bluenose by CPDDET - Model Shipways - Scale 1:64 - First ship build

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

I too had trouble tapering the quarter deck planks. I tended to cut them then sand the width down which broke many times. At risk of running out of sticks, I did not run them full length under the cabin. That way I could reuse the broken planks. I later filled in the area under the cabin with various ends and scrap material. Not the proper way to build, but his was my first build so I was okay with cheating (or so I told myself).

 

I also found scraping the taper led to fewer broken planks. Hold the plank on edge on a hard flat surface. I used a no. 11 Exacto blade. Takes a bit of practice to avoid creating an wavy taper.

 

All that said, your “sanding stick” look like a good approach. I look forward to seeing how it works out. Working these “problems” is part of learning this hobby and a large portion of satisfaction in the completed model.

 

Dave B

Edited by DBorgens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your thoughts on this Dave,

 

I'm currently working on the first 6 center planks of the quarterdeck, 4 of which have to be tapered as well as notched (nibbed?) to fit around the previously set planks.

 

It's taken me 3 hours to lay the first 4 planks but I'm getting better at it. My idea of using the "sanding sticks" didn't work out, at least not for these very narrow deck planks and a 5-6 inch taper. I ruined 2 or three plank boards trying to taper them this way and cutting them with a scalpel. 

 

I've found I'm much better with a chisel than I thought. I use the "sanding sticks" to hold the plank and draw the taper line. Then I use an XACTO chisel blade to work down close to the drawn line. I finish the last few millimeters with a fingernail sanding stick, setting the plank on the factory edge and sanding down to the drawn line. It's a bit slow but it's working for me and, so far, I'm happy with the result.

 

I should finish the first 6 boards tomorrow and will post a pic of the finished work.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Dave,

I'm enjoying watching your progress and noticing your struggle with tapering the planks. The MS Constitution also has tapered planks. Each plank runs the full length of the deck and must be tapered so that all planks fit in at the aft end. I think you're on to the solution with the xacto chisel blade and sanding stick. I too tried the holding the ruler down on the plank and cutting along its edge without any success. (Virtually impossible to hold everything tightly enough.) I think you've found the solution with the xacto chisel blade and sanding stick. I did something similar. I didn't have a chisel blade, but I did use an xacto blade. I don't recall if I used a straight (#11) or curved (#10) blade. I needed to reduce the width of the planks from 3/32" to about 1/16", so I drew a line along the plank from point where I wanted to start the taper to the end. At the end where I was removing a full 1/32" I cut it with the knife and then sanded the full length of the taper smooth. (I use a piece of paint stirring stick, about 6" long with self adhesive sandpaper attached.) I didn't fuss too much about getting each one exactly identical, just more or less the same. I applied the planks working out from the centre line, first one side then the other and tried to keep the two sides more or less equal. However, the closer I got to the outside, the more attention I paid to the width of the planks, as I didn't want to end up with any that needed to be tapered to a point.

 

Anyway, that method worked well for me and I'm sure you will find a great result too.

David

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dave L, your comment just gave me another idea.

 

In order to fair the bulkheads I had made up 6 sanding blocks. Three are ¾ inch wide and three are 1 ½ inches wide, all are 8 inches long. I glued 100, 150 and 320 grit paper to these.

 

I think using the ¾ inch wide block with 150 grit paper would work better than the fingernail file stick I’m now using. I’ll give it a try tomorrow.

 

As for the abrasive cloth I glued to one side of the metal ruler and on the wood plank, it does work great on larger pieces of wood; really grips the piece being cut. It’s just that these deck planks are so thin it’s very difficult to keep the ruler on them while cutting the taper.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Had a few things on the "honey do" list but managed to get the first 6 quarterdeck planks in. Tapering using the Xacto chisel blade and then sanding with the 8 inch long, 3/4 inch wide block is working well. Things should move along now since I dont have to notch (nib?) and more planks until I hit the outside nibbing strake.

 

001.jpg.e6f50e8781b3b7de4fe32ced77d6b0c2.jpg 

002.jpg.a723c2cfc13d64d00c9d7a500a37ead3.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Having gone through the trials and tribulations of tapering these small wood strips, I made the decision to plank the remainder of the Deck straight on. It looks good this way as well and after all the deck structures are added all your hard work on the tapering is hidden. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Boy, that sure sound much easier, and very tempting. But with this being my first build, I wonder if I should continue tapering just to gain the experience. Tough decision.

 

 

On 5/6/2019 at 8:11 AM, GrandpaPhil said:

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Total work time on this build is now 127.5 hours.

 

After reading all the tips I received I made up something that made the tapering easier for me.

 

Taking the board I had glued the abrasive cloth to, I cut a piece of 3/64th basswood about 2 inch wide and 8 inches long.

001.jpg.6c8fc3816e0143de307bb8234a82c518.jpg

I then glued the strip next to the abrasive cloth. This provided 2 advantages, it gave the plank something to butt up against and provided support for a metal ruler. The abrasive cloth keeps the plank from sliding around.

003.jpg.b688f910331951095b3acaa9e76b0ec5.jpg

Then I took a plank and, using a wheel marking gauge set at about 1/32nd, scribed the end of the plank.

004.jpg.d9de0deae61ead00fd9860b2d00f93a1.jpg

Then laid the plank on the abrasive cloth, along the raised 3/64th piece of wood. Using my 6 inch steel ruler I lined up on the scribed mark.

005.jpg.af7dec796992c14a15b466a01ac30975.jpg

007.jpg.6d8e560551d4e10ae8bafa5c5f986e6d.jpg

Using a mechanical pencil I drew the taper on the plank.

008.jpg.42bf81d3ef9fdb69d73a595999b03c96.jpg

Setting the plank on edge, I used an 8 inch sanding block to sand down to the drawn line. This is one of the sanding blocks I used to fair the bulkheads.

009.jpg.f629c3bd0fabb78b688867f3219d35bf.jpg

010.jpg.9a76e2261f34f8f38f1ced2773f057ee.jpg

If I had planks to spare I might try adding abrasive cloth to the back of the 6 inch ruler to really grip the plank and try cutting the taper. But for some reason I have a tough time making proper cuts this way and it looks like I'm going to have just enough planks to finish the quarter deck. So for now I'll stick to sanding.

 

Anyway, I managed to finish the starboard side of the quarterdeck. Still needs sanding and a few coats of wipe on poly.

012.jpg.d697529ab75aae30e01ad2f05052451b.jpg

Thanks to everyone for sharing your expertise and helping the newbie move forward.

 

Edited by CPDDET
change

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I usually cut tapers of this sort. Your jig should work well for that purpose except the final cut will dull the point of the blade. The trick to cutting the taper with a knife is to use almost no pressure on the first pass. The first pass just scribes the line. With no real pressure and a steady hold, the blade will scribe across any grain well. Then the blade has a channel, as it were, to follow on subsequent passes. I usually can remove the rule after the third pass and the blade follows the established cut well. I use very light pressure and as many passes as it takes.  A half dozen or so usually suffices. Trying to cut through in one or two passes is what leads to unsatisfactory results. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the instructions Griphos.

 

I'm going to trim about 1/16 inch or so of the abrasive cloth away from the innermost edge of the 3/64 support board. That should be enough so that the cutting blade won't contact the abrasive cloth when cutting the taper and still leave enough to grip the plank.

 

As for what to use to do the cutting, I find a scalpel the most troublesome as it seem to stray quite easily (due to the thin blade?) and a standard utility  knife the easiest. Any advice?

 

Dave

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Finished planking the quarterdeck. Gave both decks a light sanding and a single coat of wipe on poly.

 

thumbnail.jpg.55ac0e09780dac0ab08743b5d2fc9c1d.jpg

 

I noticed that when I installed the deck end planks I made them a bit too wide, covering the top hull plank. I see that the bulwark needs to rest on the top hull plank so I needed to trim back the deck end planks.

001.jpg.08911ea6c94a527b84aba6d0a237f245.jpg

 

I drew a guide line on both sides and used a razor blade saw to trim them. May still need some sanding to make enough room for the bulwarks.

 

002.jpg.0f9f09a597ef4e8c42cc2267a34cccc1.jpg

004.jpg.4979489f7d6545782befa38112ce6ed2.jpg

 

003.jpg.0d7f4139b6994444638962768f70ce59.jpg

 

Now my chickens have come home to roost.

 

I have to pay for my error of trimming off all the bulkhead extensions before installing the bulwarks. Since I will have to glue all the false frame timbers I decided to run a small test on adhesives. I took a scrap piece of waterway board and glued 3 false frame timbers to it. I used CA on one, Gorilla glue on another and Original Titebond on the 3rd. Because it will be impossible to clamp the false frame timbers, I’ll leave that dry overnight and see if one glue is better than the others.

 

005.jpg.6ce77caa378d141345c39587707ba850.jpg

Any advice on the upcoming process would be greatly appreciated. It's tough being a newbie on their first build, LOL.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Have you considered pinning the bulkhead extensions where they would have originally been on the bulkheads themselves? This will allow you a greater degree of strength when you work to fair them and the other false extensions, and also when it comes time to plank that section of the hull. As for adhesives, I used a general purpose Gorilla wood glue on mine and found that to be quite sturdy... I think when I was fairing, I only had a couple work themselves loose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm not sure the false frame timbers will require fairing as the bulwarks have a very gentle curve, but we will see tomorrow. 

 

The problem I created was caused by cutting the bulkhead extensions even with the top of the bulkheads and then glueing the waterway board in one piece, covering all the cut off bulkhead extensions. With both decks now fully planked it would be difficult to precisely locate the center of each bulkhead. What I should have done was to leave the bulkhead extensions and glued the waterway boards between each one.

 

But I do have a few ideas, one of which is to edge glue the bulwark and then install all the false frame timbers. Or, glue in all the false timbers and then install the bulwark. I'll have to take care that the height of the false frame timbers is correct before I glue them. No problem if they are a bit too high as the Dremel will take care of that. But if they are too short it will be much more difficult to fix.

 

I might take a small pieces of the 2 bulwarks and edge glue them together. Then glue that to a piece of 1/8 X 1/8 that could be used as a "handle". I could then use this to measure the correct height of the false frame timber before I glue them.

 

It's a bit late now and getting close to bedtime so I will work something out tomorrow and post my solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, things went a bit easier than I thought. As for the glue "test", all three seemed to have about the same holding power. So I went with CA because I could hold things tight while it set up.

 

I worked the port side foredeck and then the portside quarterdeck separately. I began by glueing in every 3rd false frame timber on the foredeck and then edge glued the bulwark to the top hull plank, as well as to the false frame timbers I had put it. Then I went back and glued in the remainder of the false frame timbers. The Bulwark plank is only 1/16 inch thick and takes an easy sweeping curve so it didnt take much to hold it in place (no big "spring back" force). I then did the same on the port side of the quarterdeck. Took about 4 hours to complete the entire port side.

 

I was having an issue gluing the false frame timbers until I realized the end grain was sucking up the CA. So I began placing just a touch on the end of each timber and quickly wiping it off to seal it up. Did this to all the pre-cut timbers before I installed them and it solved the problem.

 

Still have to do a bit of wood putty and sanding on hull where I edge glued, but not too much. The butt joint near the aft end will need some touch up as well.

 

002.jpg.4b546e3c063d1e1cfef1c9b775ef5c86.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Nice recovery and good work with the false timbers. When you plank the bulwarks, consider if you want to add scuppers. These are best cut (actually better to file the scuppers) before setting the planks. I used a single plank with the scuppers cut in the bottom for the fore deck and on top for the quarter deck. I found this technique on another Bluenose build log (don't remember who) and it worked well for me. Here is a photo of my scuppers.

You will have the advantage of being able to mark the actual timber locations (hey your mistake may pay off).

 

Dave B

43095592_Bluenosebullwarkforweb.thumb.jpg.ace1d9314d8a8a0a31b8b007c18e55f7.jpg

Edited by DBorgens

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another bonehead move on my part. I was so absorbed on correcting my previous mistake that I forgot to cut in the scuppers before glueing the lower bulwark in place.

 

I could use Bob Hunts suggested method: use a pin vise with small drill bit and drill from the inside, next to each false frame timber. Then use a #11 X-acto to square up the holes. It's a bit risky but I might try it. Since there aren't yet any false frame timbers or bulwarks on the starboard side access would be a bit easier. 

 

Then on the starboard side I could glue in the false frame timbers, clamp the lower bulwark to those, mark the scuppers, remove it, cut the scuppers and then glue it in.

 

Just have to make sure the size of the scuppers match on both sides. Tomorrow I will measure my files and see if one of them will work. 

 

This should be an adventure. LOL

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

11 hours ago, CPDDET said:

 

I could use Bob Hunts suggested method: use a pin vise with small drill bit and drill from the inside, next to each false frame timber. Then use a #11 X-acto to square up the holes. It's a bit risky but I might try it. Since there aren't yet any false frame timbers or bulwarks on the starboard side access would be a bit easier. 

I can vouch for this method.  I used a similar method to cut gunports and scuppers on my model of the Victory.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just make sure that you use sharp blades, otherwise you’ll make take the risk of crushing the wood in the bulwarks.  I may or may not know from personal experience.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

What's that old saying? "When in doubt, rip it out", or is it "There's never enough time to do it right but there's always enough time to do it twice"? 

 

001.jpg.d0e0ac1323b43751d42ca90afd3c0f27.jpg

Just couldn't get the drill and cut method to work for me, the more scuppers I cut the bigger they were getting. So I decided to start fresh and tore out the false timbers and bulwark.

 

First thing I did was to make a jig to be sure each false timber was correctly cut.002.jpg.76727e8f3d31112ff5de3a7187d60c42.jpg

Then lightly sanded each end of the cut pieces

 

003.jpg.de2f19fd84940bf76ac38b64f418190d.jpg

Made up a spacer with a "handle" to get the same distance between false timbers, sealed the ends with a touch of CA and glued them in place.

 

004.jpg.30c1e352958d86bdb1eeb8bc2820412b.jpg

 

005.jpg.db41dafb0a5ce6bc32303d7c0a123d0b.jpg

Took a new piece of bulwark and clamped it to the false timbers, marking the places for the scuppers to be cut and removed it.

 

006.jpg.49664b6dff255ac32a5e3773637fb47f.jpg

Then I made up a second jig to cut the scuppers. The plans say the scuppers should be 1/64 X 3/64. Since the side of my file was 1/16, I decided to make the scuppers 1/16 X 1/16. Since the bulwark is 3/16 high I used 1/8 stock, leaving 1/16 exposed to the file.

 

007.jpg.8e7312c3ea4f40c9409a1c075de29848.jpg

 

I found the side of the file dragging against the guides, so I covered it with painters tape. I could now slide the bulwark through one guide and the file through the other.

 

008.jpg.52a348e693881f114ca6f2f6c09cc860.jpg

 

Worked pretty well.

 

009.jpg.434c36c708f4ab2d217c29066ef95751.jpg

 

Then, lining up the scuppers, glued the bulwark in place. I now have scuppers!

 

010.jpg.7f6741c3bb6d8ff8157b86703373e0f4.jpg

Still have to finish off the aft end of the port side and all of the starboard side, but at least now I have a system that works for me.

 

 

 

Edited by CPDDET
delete 1 photo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Following the same procedure I used on the port side, I managed to complete the starboard side.

 

First cutting and gluing in the false frame timbers

006.jpg.a544b97d29307378752907cc5654b393.jpg

 

Then clamping the bulwark board, marking the scuppers, removing it, filing in the scuppers and finally gluing it in place.

007.jpg.f6b94b2c689bb794fe90b95216f6a3c9.jpg

I see the mating of this lower bulwark board and the top hull plank isn't the best in some places.  It's going to take some putty and sanding to get those areas looking good. But I'll have to be very careful not to "plug up" the small scupper holes with putty.

 

But first I have to install the upper bulwark board and do some work on the transom to finish the hull.

 

Then it's on to a bit of painting, a subject on which I'm completely ignorant. But I've posted questions to the group on the subject and getting lots of help.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

We model for our pleasure and satisfaction. When we’re not satisfied, we have the pleasure of doing it again.

Looks good, nice recovery.

 

Dave B

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/25/2019 at 7:30 PM, DBorgens said:

We model for our pleasure and satisfaction. When we’re not satisfied, we have the pleasure of doing it again.

Looks good, nice recovery.

 

Dave B

Words of wisdom, here.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Been awhile since my last update. I now have about 175 hours in the build. After suffering some slings and arrows I will be following Hunt’s practicum more closely.

 

While it’s been a bit busy around the house these past few weeks, I have managed to make some progress. I installed the upper bulwark and sanded all the false frame timbers so they are even with the top of it and put in the hawse timbers.

 

001.jpg.624de1b4cc77fac460c7340e227eadf4.jpg

 

 

I then did some work on the stern / transom. Not quite finished back there yet.

 

002.jpg.959c5ec278396067a0db34c2fdc8fe70.jpg

 

 

Because of some sloppy sanding on my part, there were small gaps in a few spots between the lower bulwark and the top hull plank. So I carefully taped the lower bulwark just even with the bottom of the scupper openings. Mixed up some Elmer’s wood filler with a few drops of water to get it to the consistency of toothpaste and filled the gaps.

 

003.jpg.ff07af3f5ec33dd51db56a26c1c1d387.jpg

 

Tomorrow I will remove the tape and sand the areas smooth. May have to clean out some of the scupper holes where some wood filler squirted through.

 

Then it will be time to paint the inside of the bulwarks, false frame timbers and waterways. But before I lay a brush on the ship I will follow the advice of more experienced model shipwrights and do some testing. I’m going to try 3 different sealers that were recommended: Delta Ceramcoat, shellac and sanding sealer. I also need to experiment with the ratio of paint to extender to get a “milk-like” consistency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It’s looking good!  Keep at it!

 

 I started an Artesiana Latina Bluenose II when I was a kid.  I got it planked and painted and generally to the point where I had a basic hull.  All I had left was to fit it out, make the masts, and rig it.

 

I wish I still had it.  Once you get to that point, the hard part’s done.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks Phil 

I feel like once I finish and paint the basic hull it will be like a fresh start doing the deck, masts and rigging. 

 

Learned a lot thru mistakes while doing the basic hull and can apply what I learned to finishing the model.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

About us

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research

SSL Secured

Your security is important for us so this Website is SSL-Secured

NRG Mailing Address

Nautical Research Guild
237 South Lincoln Street
Westmont IL, 60559-1917

About the NRG

If you enjoy building ship models that are historically accurate as well as beautiful, then The Nautical Research Guild (NRG) is just right for you.

The Guild is a non-profit educational organization whose mission is to “Advance Ship Modeling Through Research”. We provide support to our members in their efforts to raise the quality of their model ships.

The Nautical Research Guild has published our world-renowned quarterly magazine, The Nautical Research Journal, since 1955. The pages of the Journal are full of articles by accomplished ship modelers who show you how they create those exquisite details on their models, and by maritime historians who show you the correct details to build. The Journal is available in both print and digital editions. Go to the NRG web site (www.thenrg.org) to download a complimentary digital copy of the Journal. The NRG also publishes plan sets, books and compilations of back issues of the Journal and the former Ships in Scale and Model Ship Builder magazines.

Our Emblem

Modelshipworld - Advancing Ship Modeling through Research
×
×
  • Create New...