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Medway Longboat - Keel, Frames and build board discussion


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  • 3 weeks later...

    As we wait for the MLB to come available, I recommend you review Chuck's MLB buildlog (posted at the bottom of the topic).  This is particularly true for anybody who has not read it yet and/or has not built the Queen Anne Barge.  There are a lot of little tips to; keep from losing parts; to keep your frames true and the keep the frames from wobbling around in the build board.

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Just a quick tip about using Alaskan Yellow Cedar......

 

Make sure your hands are clean when working on the model.  Cedar is a light wood and it will get filthy.   Make sure you remove the char from the edges unless otherwise instructed in the monograph.  This will get on your hands and also dirty up your wood.

 

Use a 220 grit sandpaper to remove the char and finish with a 320 grit.   But if the parts are thin and fragile.....just use the 320 grit.  Replace the paper as soon as it gets dirty.  Otherwise you are just pushing the char and dirt into the wood grain.....

 

Apply a coat of wipe on poly....satin finish on your parts after sanding.  This will make your wood a bit harder and easier to clean should it get dirty afterwards.  I even apply a couple of coats.  This is true for he keel assembly after you finish assembling it.

 

I use titebond II for all gluing EXCEPT for planking.  For planking I use medium CA.  This is for many reasons but I recommend you absolutely use cA for external and internal planking.   Mike can explain why...LOL.   But there is too much open time in Titebond and your planks will move and flex.  This is a fragile assembly and it would NOT be wise to use clamps and rubber bands and all of that crazy stuff I see people using when the plank.   If you pre-bend.....and use CA.....it will be a breeze to plank your model neatly and with tight joints.

 

Chuck

 

Chuck

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While waiting for my kit to arrive out here in the Pacific NW I've been reading Chucks build log and thinking about how I intend on assembling the keel. I am curious as to how you insure the keel has a 1/32" rabbit on each side (i.e. centering the four 3/32" pieces). I have some ideas but I'd like to hear what more experienced builders have to say. 

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8 hours ago, Chuck said:

  This is a fragile assembly and it would NOT be wise to use clamps and rubber bands and all of that crazy stuff I see people using when the plank.  

So, you HAVE seen my Queen Anne Barge buildlog.  The rubber bands seemed like a good idea at the time. :default_wallbash:

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43 minutes ago, rjones726 said:

I've been reading Chucks build log and thinking about how I intend on assembling the keel. I am curious as to how you insure the keel has a 1/32" rabbit on each side (i.e. centering the four 3/32" pieces).

 

Hi rjones726, I feel like I'm writing to myself. LOL. 

 

There are probably as many ways to do this as there are people building her. Seeing that the dimensions are all 1/32'" I'll try to explain how I will approach it. Seeing that there is a gap of 1/32" on each side I temporarily attach some 1/32" scrap to what would be the "bottom" side of the 3/32" piece when laid on its side. I use some  temporary craft glue like rubber cement. The piece with the strip wood is now 4/32" (1/16") thick so when slid up to the keel you should have your 1/32" spacing on each side. I use a hard surface like a thick piece of glass or some such item that is perfectly flat to assemble the pieces on. 

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Rusty

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8 minutes ago, Rustyj said:

 

Hi rjones726, I feel like I'm writing to myself. LOL. 

 

There are probably as many ways to do this as there are people building her. Seeing that the dimensions are all 1/32'" I'll try to explain how I will approach it. Seeing that there is a gap of 1/32" on each side I temporarily attach some 1/32" scrap to what would be the "bottom" side of the 3/32" piece when laid on its side. I use some  temporary craft glue like rubber cement. The piece with the strip wood is now 4/32" (1/16") thick so when slid up to the keel you should have your 1/32" spacing on each side. I use a hard surface like a thick piece of glass or some such item that is perfectly flat to assemble the pieces on. 

 

I hope this makes sense.

 

Rusty

It makes perfect sense Rusty. My idea was similar-to take a piece of 1/32" scrap attach it to something thicker/longer and set it against the keel as a gage to set the correct spacing. The 1/32" piece will set the rabbit and the thicker piece will rests against the keel. I hadn't thought of using rubber cement to hold it in place. I will probably make a couple and space them out. I need to find a piece of glass or marble as well.

Thanks,

Rob

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10 hours ago, Chuck said:

Just a quick tip about using Alaskan Yellow Cedar......

 

Apply a coat of wipe on poly....satin finish on your parts after sanding.  This will make your wood a bit harder and easier to clean should it get dirty afterwards.  I even apply a couple of coats.  This is true for he keel assembly after you finish assembling it.

 

Chuck

Chuck, I grabbed this snippet out of your post. If a person applies a coat of wipe on poly to parts..........can those pieces still be glued with Titebond? I like the sounds of being able to wipe on a coat of poly. 

 

Jim

 

 

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I have never had any issues doing it.  The glue seems to adhere just fine for me. But thats just me.  For the centering of the 3/32" pieces...I do understand the need to have it perfectly centered,  but I just eyeballed it.  The important thing to remember  is to make sure you do have that 1/32" on both sides at the stern and stern post.  Where the planking will sit flat against it.  This will help you avoid sand the planking too thin back there.  To help with this...I even sanded the 3/32" thick pieces back there a bit thinner to make sure the rabbet would be deep enough on both sides.   But honestly, at mid ship and at the bow,  if you get just get close it will be fine.  Thats why I just eyeballed it and everything worked out fine.

 

Chuck

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Is there any reason why white shellac wouldn't serve as well as a sealer? I've always used shellac. It seems using the wipe-on polys would be messier and offer a weaker faying surface to glue. I'm not advising shellac, just wondering if anybody has any thoughts on comparisons of the two.

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6 hours ago, Cricket said:

Quick question on the wipe on poly. Any difference between using oil or water based?

It's been my experience that oil based will give the wood a nice golden glow while water based won't change the tone much. I'd get some of each and give it a try. Oh.............then report back as I'm sure others have the same question. 

 

Jim

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7 hours ago, Cricket said:

Quick question on the wipe on poly. Any difference between using oil or water based?

    I agree with Jim, except the water based gave more of a splotchy finished didn't care for it at all. 

 

    I have an old can of oil based gloss.   Many have recommended the satin.  When I tried to find here in California, I was unable to find oil based satin, so I got water based.  Tried it on my Queen Anne Barge.  You see my thoughts above.  I reverted to the oil gloss.  I had i discussion with another member (Claire I believe) at the NRG Conference who suggested that I might not be able to get oil based in Cali....so I stopped on my way out of Nevada and got some.  Don't tell Guv'ner Brown.

 

    Go with the oil.

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On 11/20/2018 at 5:34 PM, Cricket said:

Thanks for all the replies guys. I read somewhere that the water based had a duller look so I'm just going to go with the oil. That being said when the kit comes in ( just ordered like 5 minutes ago ) I will give both a try and get back.

I tried both on a test board of poplar and there is a difference. I'm not an expert on this type of thing, but this is how I tested. I applied three coats of each letting each coat dry with a light sanding between coats using 220 grit sand paper. The end result was as mentioned by Chuck. The water based was splotchy and even a bit shinier in places, while the oil based was smooth and even. There may be a way to apply the water based and achieve the same finish as the oil, but for now I'm going with the oil based.

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They go above it to increase the thickness of that area.  In fact best placed along the top edge of the frame.  The direction of the grain being opposite in most cases to the frame piece.  This gives it strength and will not be seen after the frame centers are removed and the inboard sheer strake is added.  If you use a thin strip that is only 3/64" wide or 1/16" wide...you dont even have to remove them.  Just leave them at the top of each frame after you remove the centers.  They wont be seen at all.  Notice them on the top of each frame below (the first two frames at the bow)....after fairing.

 

The second photo shows the same area after the inboard sheer strake is added.   They are completely concealed.

 

Having said this..they can easily be shaved off with a sharp xacto blade if you insist on doing so before you finish planking.  Once you have planked the exterior except for the last two sheer strakes, you can slice and shave them away down to the frame edge.  But that is up to you.

 

inboardfaired1.jpg

kneebow1.jpg

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