HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74 gun, as designed

[druxey]

Lovely end-result, Mark.

[dvm27]

How did I know that several months ago when you had no idea how to cast that the results would be a magnificent set of cannons? Well done, Mark!

[mtaylor]

Looking lovely, Mark.  I'm glad you were able to get a good outcome.  Next time you try, put the brass in a small container (I use an old glass bowl) and let the part sit in the solution.  I do miss Blacken-it though as that stuff always worked perfectly.

[SJSoane]

druxey, Greg and Mark, thank you so much for your kind comments. Even more importantly, thank you for your continued support and advice as I undertook this challenging new task. You and many other members of Model Ship World helped me through some very complex processes. I am not entirely sure that I would have persevered if I had not obtained such good advice at difficult moments. And it is very satisfying to obtain new skills, perhaps one of the biggest driving forces for me in building this ship model. I am sorry I failed at creating the King's cyphers, but Chuck saved the day for me with his excellent laser cut examples, made to measure.

 

I am looking forward to working in wood again, but remind myself that my skills at the start of learning miniature woodworking were as non-existent as my skills at the start of learning to cast metal. One just has to jump in, expect mistakes and mis-steps, get good advice from all of you, be willing to throw away poor efforts, and just keep on going. As Gaetan said when I initially feared cutting deck mortises by hand, do something enough times and you will get very good at it. Having said this, I doubt I will be casting 74 cannon again in my lifetime!

 

Mark

 

 

[Chuck]

That looks fantastic....nicely done.

[druxey]

Never say never, Mark....

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Congratulation Mark, 

 

You have succeeded in an area that I have never try and an area that I will never try.

I would prefer to turn 144 guns instead.

[SJSoane]

I took some time off from the ship after competing the cannon to help a neighbor get some logs for a dock project nearby. I learned how to use a draw knife for stripping the bark.

 

This gave me a great sense of the woodsmen who found and prepared the trees for ship construction. I can hardly imagine what it would be like to do this all day, every day, for your entire working life.

 

I borrowed the orange kevlar chaps, which helped avoid knife cuts to the shins. They are also supposed to prevent cuts from chainsaws, but I didn't test them for effectiveness.

 

Now if I could only find some boxwood trees in this Rocky Mountain softwood forest....😀

 

 

Mark

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

 Christ, Mark, how’s your back after all of that?!  Mine hurts just looking at those pics.

Edited May 1, 2019 by Hubac's Historian

[SJSoane]

Hi Marc,

 

We stripped 144 linear feet of 12" diameter logs--I did half--and I discovered muscles today that I did not even know existed. This is definitely a young person's sport!

 

Mark

[Hubac's Historian]

Go right ahead, and take 2-3 Liqui-Gels right now.

[SJSoane]

Hi everyone,

 

After taking time off to build some garden trellises, I got back to work on the Bellona. And now the cannon are cast, I turned back to the ropemaking.

 

Here is some 7" circumference breech rope (.035" diameter at 3/16" scale), made with 5 threads on three hooks, using Chuck's great Syren ropewalk. I am getting the hang of this now; I was under-turning before, worried about breakage. But I really cranked it up at both ends, and it came out well. I also solved the problem of getting the tension the same on all hooks, by using a small clamp to hold the 5 threads together at a hook at the same tension as the others, then tying off before removing the clamp. Pretty reliable method now.

 

The next step is more problematical, dying the rope. I have been using RIT dyes, and started with a formula posted by Bob Westcott, based on N. Roger Cole's article on Alert Provenance and Construction. These turned out to be way too intense and too yellow for my Gutermann 50 cotton thread. So I started experimenting with difference mixes of RIT tan and pearl grey, and at different intensities and times (see experiments below).

 

I am finding this to be unreliable. The same mix and time gives different results  when I try to reproduce it. On an earlier test, the hot water needed for the RIT dye suddenly made my rope stretchy. When I turned up a really tight rope for the next effort, it actually began unraveling in the hot water, as seen below.

 

So I am not so enthusiastic about RIT dye, right now. Does anyone have experience with wood stains as a colorant? Would these be damaging to the cotton over time?

 

I will keep experimenting!

 

Mark

 

Edited May 21, 2019 by SJSoane

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

I use walnut stain made from walnut shell

https://ardec.ca/en/p/62/walnut-stain

 

The color has to be fix with alchool. I also do some other mix with beewax and other components depending of the results I want

 

I am not sure you use a good method  to turn ropes, look like some turns are missing to hold every thing together.

[druxey]

Silly suggestion, perhaps, but why not buy your Gutermann thread in the colors you want? That's what I do and then there's no messy dyeing or fixing required.

[SJSoane]

Hi Gaetan,

The rope is five threads each on 3 hooks, and holds together when I remove it from the ropewalk. It just starts to unravel after sitting in the hot water required for the RIT dye. I will look into the walnut shell ideas.

 

druxey, if only I had known I could buy the Gutermann in a color that would work....oh, well, the price of learning!

 

Mark

 

 

[paulsutcliffe]

I'm with Druxey on that one, why not buy the gutermann in the colour you need, chuck recently gave the codes out for the colours in his log on rope that were requested by a museum, I went to a sewing shop and got the colours I needed ie hemp and dark brown etc

Regards

Paul

[Richard Griffith]

Hi Mark, fantastic work, very inspiring.

 

For rope dyeing, you might consider getting a copy of "Valkenisse" by Rob Napier.  On pages 156 to 158, he reports good results with Pro Chemical & Dye in Somerset, MA.  He also outlined his method. 

 

BTW, his book is book is a treasure drove of tips and information. This is one of my 'go to' books.  Duff

[druxey]

I agree that, if you insist on dyeing your own line, Rob Napier's method is excellent. However....

[SJSoane]

Hi everyone,

 

Unfortunately, the train left the station quite a long time ago, when I purchased the thread for the Bellona--some Gutermann 50, and a variety of DMC Cordonnet sizes--all in Ecru color. I don't fancy throwing it away and buying again. So I will have to learn how to color what I have.

 

After a few more experiments, I am quite sure that the RIT dye in the required 140 degree water, has affected the cotton thread. A rope that is tightly wrapped and stable lengthwise before going into the dye, becomes stretchy after soaking in the hot dye--even after only three minutes. This lets go the tension holding the rope together. So hot water is out of the question for me.

 

Other option to explore, after casting around this site and the internet:

 

Walnut stain mentioned above: I looked up the link, and the product is no longer available.

 

Minwax stain, fruitwood for running and jacobean for standing. I will try this, but read concerns about an oil based stain causing problems when using glue on rigging. Anyone have experience with this?

 

General waterbased dye stain. Chuck used this some time ago in experiments. Does anyone have suggestions for which colors will work?

 

Transtint analine dyes. I am using these for the very nice red in my hull, mixed into a polyurethane sealer. But I don't see subtle enough colors for rigging in the color chart. Does anyone have suggestions for colors here? 

 

Richard's reference to Rob Napier's use of a product from Pro Chemical and Dye. I have his book on the Princess Royal--a terrific book--and I will pick up a copy of the one on the Valkenisse.

 

As long as I am retired and in no rush, I might as well explore this whole question of coloring rope. I have found it to be an elusive topic so far!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Hubac's Historian]

I bought walnut ink from a local art supply, and I use it as a light distress wash over acrylic paint.  Even after it dries, I can wash the color back with a wet brush, if it’s too intense.  Once I’m happy with it, I seal it in under clearcoat.

 

I imagine you could accomplish the same staining/dying effects with cotton thread.

[druxey]

Well, if dye you must; perhaps hot dyeing your thread before you spin it up might be the answer?

[SJSoane]

Hi druxey,

 

I thought about that; the challenge will be to wind up 150-200 feet of thread to put into the dye, without it all tangling up. Maybe an open spool of some kind?

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

Hi Marc,

I wonder about how stiff the rope would become with the clearcoat. Is that something that is flexible when dry?

 

Mark

[druxey]

I've not done this, Mark, but that seems a reasonable approach.

[mtaylor]

I think Druxey has the right approach.  Somewhere around here I recall seeing someone's rope dyeing method.  Basically a spool of thread leading into the dye bath and coming out, it runs between two rollers like were on the old washing machines.  From there, the rope went up to some hooks on the ceiling to hang and dry. The rope was draped over the hooks and hung down the almost floor level and them back up to the next hook, etc.  

 

Sounds a bit messy though so precautions like protecting the floor might be needed. 

[SJSoane]

Mark, I vaguely remember seeing or hearing about a device like you describe. I couldn't track it down anywhere. Does anyone have a recollection of what it might look like, or where I might find a description?

 

Part of the trick would be that the thread needs to soak for 3 minutes, so it would have to be pulled through in measured batches. Starting to sound Rube Goldberg!

 

Mark

 

 

[Landrotten Highlander]

8 hours ago, SJSoane said:

Mark, I vaguely remember seeing or hearing about a device like you describe. I couldn't track it down anywhere. Does anyone have a recollection of what it might look like, or where I might find a description?

 

Part of the trick would be that the thread needs to soak for 3 minutes, so it would have to be pulled through in measured batches. Starting to sound Rube Goldberg!

 

Mark

 

 

Another option is to have te rope pulled through a lengthy basin of dye.  Your set-up would look something like this:  a shallow long basin (such as for instance one of thos long plastic trays for window ledge planting) partially filled with your dye.  The spool on one end, a rope goes underneath a metallic/plastic/wooden 'finger' that pushes it below the dye level, runs just above the bottom of the tray, passes a second 'finger' before it is pulled out.

Perhaps using some tehnoLego manufacture a large-ish spool to automate the pulling of your rope (needs to run at slow speed, so the rope takes approx 3 minutes to run from one end of the tray to the other end).  The spool would function the same manner as those mecahnised anchor things (my brain is not working properly this morning, cannot recall the name of the thing) that is used to lift the anchor, i.e. the anchor chain runs 3 times around the thing before it is taken off again, thus the chain is not wound up on it)

 

That way all you have to do (once it is running) is to take the rope as it leaves your spool and hang it up on the hooks in the ceiling.

[Richard Griffith]

Hi Mark, Napier also devised a way of spooling the thread.  It is a square board with a nail in each of the four corners around which he wrapped his thread.  It allowed him to immerse the thread in a pan of hot solution so the dye could reach all of the thread.     Duff

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

a twisted wire in the jar, the rope pass through the ring, you pull the other side through a sponge,  and you let dry, rope attached at both ends in the air

[SJSoane]

Hi Landrotten, Richard and Gaetan,

 

These are really interesting ideas! I will start messing around in the shop and see what might work. I will feel a little like a mad scientist in the lab, trying to invent a lightbulb.

 

It would be great if something like this could work, because I did manage to find the right formula in RIT dye for good looking running rigging.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark