HMS Bellona 1760 by SJSoane - Scale 1:64 - English 74 gun, as designed

[druxey]

"Those guys were good!" What you have and see is the result of hundreds of years of experience, development and experiment to get it right. Looks terrific, Mark.

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

As sharp as it can be, very impressive Mark

[Louie da fly]

Beautiful lines, which you're achieving well. Not so bad yourself!

[SJSoane]

Thanks so much for the kind comments, Gaetan and Steven.

 

I have now completed the starboard channel wale, which is as far as I will go with planking for a while. I need to catch up inboard, and get the remaining decks in place before planking the topsides. I don't want to risk errant drill holes coming through from work inboard.

 

Here we can see again the dramatic resolution of various curves at the stern, as the tumblehome twists upright for the stern works.

 

I think it is now on to spirketting on the gundeck, and perhaps proceeding with the cheeks and hawse liners at the bow. Once those are done, I can finally drill the hawse holes, something I have been looking forward to for many years!

 

Mark

 

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

2 hours ago, SJSoane said:

I can finally drill the hawse holes

The worst way to do it is to drill immediately at the right size. You can drill about up the half and finish by sanding with little drums or files.

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Gaetan, and I am also thinking about how to build a little jig to ensure that I drill the pilot hole at exactly the right angle. Getting this wrong will put the hole in the wrong location inboard. Or, do you straighten the hole up when you finish shape it with files?

 

Mark

[garyshipwright]

Have to agree with you 100 percent Gaetan. When I got to about 75 percent of the hole I stated filing up to the finally size. Work great. Also if you drill the holes make sure you have a piece of wood inboard so you don't break  out the wood. Don't forget Mark, the holes are slanted up from the outside to the inside. Of course am sure most of this you all ready knew. ;o) Gary

[davyboy]

Hi Mark,I've been following your build since you started.Exemplary carpentry and dedication indeed. A little fix you may find useful when drilling hawse holes. Drill about 2/3 of the diameter required then open out the holes using a tapered reamer of the req size then ream from the other end.Then run a straight  reamer through to remove the slight constriction in the holes centre. You wont get any tearout and really smooth hawse holes,no filing marks. Just a thought,anyway it worked for me.

 

Dave  

[druxey]

I take an alternative approach and file out the half-holes almost to size in the hawse timbers before assembling them on the model. This automatically puts the holes at the correct upward angle and parallel to the long axis of the model. Also, there is zero risk of tear-out by drilling. Ah, well - on your next model!

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Gary, Dave and druxey for thoughts on the hawse holes. I will definitely drill undersized and fill to the correct diameter.

 

Druxey, I was many years into this build before I realized that the hawse hole were related to the location of the hawse timbers! I had faithfully followed the stylized construction methods of the original dockyard models, which used symmetrical hollowed shells at the bows, bearing no relationship whatsoever to the actual framing construction. For a long time I pondered how big, and in what location, they would be drilled, trying to eyeball dimensions in photos relative to other things whose sizes I knew.

 

 

Finally, after reading about this in David Antscherl's Fully Framed Model series, I was able to construct in a drawing where the hawse timbers would have been had I constructed this accurately, and therefore where the hawse holes would be drilled. Indeed, in the next model.....

 

 

On another topic, I just received the micro chisels I ordered from Mihail Kirsanov in Russia. A number of Model Ship World builders recommended these, and they are indeed the premier micro chisels of all time. Exquisite craftsmanship, sharp as anything, and all of the shapes needed for ship ornamentation. I highly recommend them. They took more than 3 weeks in the mail, surviving the uncertainties of mail delivery during the pandemic. Now I just have to do them justice and carve something at least as beautiful as the chisels themselves.

 

Sharpening these will definitely be a challenge, there are some so small it is hard to see the surface needing sharpening! Mihail sent sharpening instructions which I will try to follow to the letter. Google Translate is our friend here!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[garyshipwright]

5 hours ago, SJSoane said:

Thanks, Gary, Dave and druxey for thoughts on the hawse holes. I will definitely drill undersized and fill to the correct diameter.

 

Druxey, I was many years into this build before I realized that the hawse hole were related to the location of the hawse timbers! I had faithfully followed the stylized construction methods of the original dockyard models, which used symmetrical hollowed shells at the bows, bearing no relationship whatsoever to the actual framing construction. For a long time I pondered how big, and in what location, they would be drilled, trying to eyeball dimensions in photos relative to other things whose sizes I knew.

 

 

Finally, after reading about this in David Antscherl's Fully Framed Model series, I was able to construct in a drawing where the hawse timbers would have been had I constructed this accurately, and therefore where the hawse holes would be drilled. Indeed, in the next model.....

 

 

On another topic, I just received the micro chisels I ordered from Mihail Kirsanov in Russia. A number of Model Ship World builders recommended these, and they are indeed the premier micro chisels of all time. Exquisite craftsmanship, sharp as anything, and all of the shapes needed for ship ornamentation. I highly recommend them. They took more than 3 weeks in the mail, surviving the uncertainties of mail delivery during the pandemic. Now I just have to do them justice and carve something at least as beautiful as the chisels themselves.

 

Sharpening these will definitely be a challenge, there are some so small it is hard to see the surface needing sharpening! Mihail sent sharpening instructions which I will try to follow to the letter. Google Translate is our friend here!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

Those are very nice Mark. Do believe that druxey was talking about these when they first came out a couple years back. I have been tempted many times but never pulled the card out. ;o) Gary

[allanyed]

These chisels are not cheap by any measure, but they are indeed superb.  Best purchase for this hobby of ours that I  made in a long time.    

Glad to see Mihail has another happy customer!

 

Allan 

[dvm27]

Couldn't agree more Allan. Been using them for a couple of years and haven't had to sharpen yet. Don't want to mess up that perfect finish he honed!

[druxey]

Well, I see that Christmas has arrived early! Use them in good health, Mark.

 

I never got sharpening instructions with mine. What does Mihail recommend?

[allanyed]

Druxey,  I just PM'd Mark an hour  ago asking for a copy myself as I did not get any instructions either in any language, just the sharpening materials.   Hopefully we will both have them in a jiffy!

Allan 

[SJSoane]

HI Greg, druxey and Allan,

 

I'll PM you with what I got.

 

Mark

[SJSoane]

I am working on the gundeck spirketting, but nothing of interest to show yet. While waiting for pieces to steam and dry, I have gone back to working on the drawings some more. I got to the stove, and have some questions.

 

As I understand various sources, the Brodie stove which has been well documented by David Antscherl's Fully Framed Model vol. II pp.81-85 only came into the Royal Navy in the 1780s, according to Brian Lavery's The Arming and Fitting of English Ships of War, p. 197. Since the Bellona was built in 1760, I need to find the stove the predated the Brodie stove. Lavery shows a re-drawing of the HMS Dorsetshire (1757) stove, seen below. The outline and size of this accords very closely to the more schematic stove shown in my Admiralty drawings of the Bellona, so I am confident that this is what the Bellona stove looked like.

 

What I don't understand is what is beneath the stove here. The later Brodie stove had a large metal plate at its base just a little larger than the stove itself, which seemed to sit down on wooden battens adjusting for the roundup of the beam and the sheer of the deck. But both the Bellona and Dorsetshire drawings show a large platform about 4" thick on top of the deck beams and extending to the edges of what I assume are the bulkheads surrounding the galley.

 

Would this have been a brick floor? And would the stove have somehow bolted down through the brick into the beams and large carling below? The cooking equipment immediately pre-dating these early iron stoves was a much larger brick structure, so a brick floor might indeed have been a transitional idea to the new equipment.

 

If this is indeed a brick floor, then the Brodie stove removal of this would have been a vast improvement!

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

[druxey]

I believe brick or slate tile was used. I doubt if bolts would have been necessary. Those stoves must have weighed a ton!

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

Mark, as usual I do not know the answer, but for the french ships, it was lead plates which are more convenient, I would think than jumping over  a brick step every time you com close to the stove.

[garyshipwright]

Mark the drawing of the stove reminds me of the Brodie stove and looking at the drawing shows there are difference between the one on the Dorsetshire (1757) and the Brodie stove. Have to agree with druxey that there was bricks below stoves at that time. Now I have to see if I can find it again so i don't put my foot in the wrong place.😁  Well good sir found another place to see the history of the stove at least from his stand point and that is Peter Goodwin book, The sailing man of war. He gives us a look at what came before the Brodie stove taking us all the way back to 1707 on page 161. He says that it was brick beneith the stove in fig 5/28.  Gary

[Mark P]

Good Evening Mark;

 

See below extracts from a few contracts which give some detail of what was done.

 

Warspite, William Wells, Deptford, contract date 17 Nov 1755:

 

Furnace & Fireplace. To put up Jambs, and lay Cants for the Furnaces and Fireplace; to line the Jambs, Wingboards, overhead, round the Chimney and the foreside of the after Bulkheads of the Fore Castle, with double Tin plate, and to Cover the Deck with Lead Seven pounds to the Foot Square, and to put up such Convenient Dressers & Lockers as shall be necessary.

 

Resolution, Henry Bird, Northam, contract date 28 Nov 1755: (repeat of the above)

 

Culloden, specification for Deptford Dockyard, 1770:

 

As you can see, they all seem pretty much of a muchness. Not much variation. Earlier contracts speak of lead and bricks on top of it; but probably best here to just rely on lead. There seems to have been a raised border around the edges of the hearth, which might give the illusion, viewed from the side, of a raised hearth.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

 

[druxey]

Thanks for the clarification, Mark. No slate, then. I guess what I took to be slate was lead covered with rectangular tin plates.

[SJSoane]

Thanks, so much, everyone.

 

Mark, it is so nice to have primary evidence in the way of these contracts.

 

According to an online calculator, 7 pounds of lead equals 18 cubic inches, which spread across a square foot according to the contract would be an eighth of an inch thick. I wonder what the extra thickness is in that cross section of the Dorsetshire, which looks to be somewhat thicker than the 3" deck below it? I did confirm on the National Maritime Museum site that the Dorsetshire drawing Brian Lavery redrew does indeed show this extra line of thickness. Could the deck just be thickened up with another layer of wood decking under the stove and lead, for structural reasons?

 

This is way more fun that watching steamed wood dry...

 

Mark

 

[Mark P]

Good Evening Mark;

 

Glad to be of assistance in any way with such a delightful build. I have the Dorsetshire draught on paper, and the upstand is most definitely a side view, not a section. Taken in conjunction with the contracts specifying that cants are laid, I would surmise that what you see is actually a timber edging around the hearth (to contain spilt liquids, probably, and ashes) with a slot in the top for the lead to be tucked into for a tidy finish. Cants, as I am sure you recall, are frequently laid on the deck under the bulkheads, and are also used to receive the outer ends of the manger boards. It seems to be a term for a timber with a slot in it; derived, one must assume, from a passing resemblance to something which has fascinated men for millenia. Hence, I think it is safe to interpret the draught and the contracts in this way. Note that the cants, or slotted timbers, are laid, which in construction terms implies that they are positioned horizontally. 

 

Additional structural strength would not be necessary on the deck, as this was supplied by fitting a couple of very large carlings below the stove area. 

 

It is also likely that the stove was supported either on feet, or on small areas of brickwork, to leave a mostly void area below the stove, allowing air to circulate and prevent direct heat transmission to the lead and deck. This was certainly the case with the earlier brick stoves. The Brodie stoves, once in use, were fitted by specialist contractors, not dockyard staff, so it is possible that if bricks were used for this purpose when iron stoves were introduced, they were fitted by the contractors, and so were not mentioned in the contract, being a specialist item.

 

All the best,

 

Mark P

[SJSoane]

While pondering the lead question, my steaming dried. Here is a first look at the spirketting challenge.

 

I faced a chicken and egg problem. the two strakes of spirketting would need to be glued in before their surfaces could be dubbed down smoothly; but once glued in, the red stain would be exceedingly difficult to keep from running onto the waterway.

 

I looked again at Rob Napier's Legacy of a Ship Model, which showed an eighteenth century model of the Princess Royal in exquisite detail as it was pulled apart and put back together. I discovered a neat trick used often by the 18th century model builders, which Rob Napier named SWOPEM; "Situation Where One Part Equals Many" ( p.42). One piece is scored to look like a number of parts joined together.

 

I am exploring whether I can make this work for the spirketting, using one band and scoring for the scarps joints. This keeps a smooth surface, which, once fitted to the waterway and cut to the sills of the ports above, can be stained and then installed in one go, no dubbing down needed. I figure if it was good enough for the 18th century model builders, it would be good enough for me, particularly when it will be buried deep in the ship when two more layers of decks go on.

 

An additional challenge of this is that my wood notoriously has strong springback after steaming, particularly with this 6" thick piece. So I am experimenting here with holding the spirketting at the bow within a rabbet in the lower face of the hawse hook. This will act as a natural clamp to the spirketting. keeping everything fair. In the photo below, I still need to sneak up the vertical cut in the spirketting to the port edge of the hook, for a tight fit. This is again a modeling cheat, because the hook in the real ship sits on the face of the spirketting and quickwork. But no one will see the difference, and it helps with tidy construction.

 

All for now!

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SJSoane]

Thanks, Mark, that makes perfect sense. It also explains why the stove seems just a little too short if it stopped at the top of that line which we now know is the line of a cant. Short, because there needs to be more room below the door to the kettle fire grates, for an ash tray and a space for air to get into the fire.

 

So I will assume that the sides of the stove actually go down to deck level, with perhaps slots in the ends to admit air into the entire structure under the fire grates as in the Brodie stove a few decades later.

 

Do you think the lead was laid in long strips fore and aft, or overlapping tiles of lead like the copper sheathing on the hull? All rolled seams in the metal, I presume.

 

Best wishes,

 

Mark

[druxey]

Had you considered two layers of 3" thick each at the bow? Much easier than bending a scale 6" piece! And, as you've observed, the end result of the 'cheat' is invisible.

 

I'd imagine that lead would have rolled seams, just like leading on a church roof back then.

[SJSoane]

Hi druxey, I will try that if this first effort proves too difficult to pull gracefully into place. Even the 3 1/2" quickwork needed steaming at this point, so I would steam both layers separately, then laminate. Has possibilities!

 

Good idea on the church roofs; I'll look at some old photos to see a seaming pattern. Makes sense it would be the same process.

 

Mark

[jdbondy]

Mark, even though I have not bought a set of the Russian chisels, I would be interested in seeing his honing instructions. Can you PM me as well? Thanks.

[AON]

Mark,

Just PM you some stuff from my collections that you might find useful .

Alan