ancre La Belle Poule 1765 by MTaylor - Scale 1:64 - POB- French Frigate from ANCRE plans

[mtaylor]

Thanks for the likes and the comments.

 

3 hours ago, knightyo said:

I really like the look of pear. This will be a beauty.  What are you thinking of filling the gaps with, Mark?

 

Alan

I'll use a mix of the sanding dust from the planking, and about a 50-50 mix of white glue and water and then re-sand lightly.  I've done this in the past and it comes out looking pretty good.  The key is to make the "paste" pretty thick.  I was hoping to do a better job but it is what it is right now.  Lessons learned and fixes will be done.  The main part of the hull should go a bit better.

[Edwardkenway]

6 minutes ago, mtaylor said:

I was hoping to do a better job but it is what it is

I can equate to this Mark! I strive to get the planks tight but find more gaps every time I look 🙄.

I'll echo the other comments though,  the pear  does look really good!

[mtaylor]

Thanks Edward.   I'm working on bending the wales today... so we'll see what happens.

[noel_colledge]

Mark, I agree sawdust and glue is the traditional way, but have you thought of using hard wax and a heating tool similar to how furniture restorers repair faults, it comes in all shades for all types of wood and for minor issues runs into crevices easier than a sawdust mix.

 

Best regards.

 

Noel

[Keith Black]

2 hours ago, noel_colledge said:

using hard wax

 The problem with wax, it dries out and shrinks leaving cracks. 

Edited March 15, 2021 by Keith Black

[knightyo]

2 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 The problem with wax, it dries out and shrinks leaving cracks. 

 

You rhymed. 😁

[noel_colledge]

19 hours ago, Keith Black said:

 The problem with wax, it dries out and shrinks leaving cracks. 

Hi Keith,

 

Not my experience if you apply properly and use the proper stuff, the quantity is so small for crack filling. If you do get a crack, then reheat and apply a little more.

[bruce d]

Is there an advantage to using the wax? I have used it in the past for furniture but never considered it for modelmaking. My impression, based on the product I used, is that it would be tricky to control for the tiny cavities and seams associated with planking.

If there is a practical reason for using the wax instead of glue/dust mixture, I would be interested. It could give quite a few colour possibilities.

[Keith Black]

 Why would one want to possibly keep messing with a "fix"? Do it right the first time with something (glue and sawdust is a proven method) that's going to be stable and be done with it. I can't imagine trying to heat wax and fill cracks on a fully rigged ship. To me it sounds like a recipe for disaster. 

 

 I've used wax on furniture to fill cracks and wished later I had done something different. 

[mtaylor]

On 3/15/2021 at 3:46 AM, noel_colledge said:

Mark, I agree sawdust and glue is the traditional way, but have you thought of using hard wax and a heating tool similar to how furniture restorers repair faults, it comes in all shades for all types of wood and for minor issues runs into crevices easier than a sawdust mix.

 

Best regards.

 

Noel

Noel, 

I never considered the wax method as I've never heard of it.  Given the way my mind works, I'm going to stick with what I know at this point.  

 

Right now, I'm trying to bend a piece of 1/4" X 1/8" in two directions at once....  A curve for the bow and and down on the length.   A jig will be the way to go I think......  

[Jaager]

Mark,

When you measure out a plank, do you first transfer that to a mock up from something like poster board to check the fit, before actually cutting wood?

[Jaager]

I did some more armchair experimenting:

Would it help to use cardboard that is close to plank thickness?

Would it help to use a penetrating treatment with a varnish on both sides to stiffen it?

Would a plastic sheet that is thick enough to be stiff, but thin enough to cut with a sharp violin type knife and straight edge work better?

Once the pattern is refined to make a good fit, it can be transferred to two layers of planking stock bonded with something like double sided tape.  This way P&S planking can be spilled together.  About half the work and a better likelihood of bilateral symmetry?

 

[mtaylor]

Jaager, I've just been using the model as my "jig" along with various scraps that I've shaped.  I've trying one more time then I'll use the double plank method to get the thickness right.  

[Jaager]

I was thinking about your wale bending task.  Bending thru the thick dimension is fighting what the wood wants to do.  But would it be easier to bend a 1/4" x 1/16"?

I was shocked by kits doing wales by superimposing a half thickness wale over the complete first layer planking with a double layer hull POB. If the wale is two layers, the evidence would be hidden by the planking strakes above and below. It is heretical, but you could pretend that the hull is being girdled. 

[mtaylor]

11 minutes ago, Jaager said:

I was thinking about your wale bending task.  Bending thru the thick dimension is fighting what the wood wants to do.  But would it be easier to bend a 1/4" x 1/16"?

I was shocked by kits doing wales by superimposing a half thickness wale over the complete first layer planking with a double layer hull POB. If the wale is two layers, the evidence would be hidden by the planking strakes above and below. It is heretical, but you could pretend that the hull is being girdled. 

 

That's my fall back position if I fail again.   Sometimes I'm just too stubborn for my own good.  

 

[mtaylor]

Just a quick update....  the wales are on and I'm happy with them.  They won't be sanded until I have her fully planked.  The hull has been marked out for planking.  Things are in a state of limbo due to health issues.  The BP med is knocking the wind out of my sails and making me dizzy.  Some might say that dizzy is my normal. LOL.   But I've been advised to not use any power tools until we get the dosage sorted out.   So as soon as possible (hopefully later this week) I can start cutting and shaping planks.  I'll do photos after she's planked.

[Keith Black]

Mark, I hope you get your medication sorted quickly.....KB

[Edwardkenway]

The meds for BP do some strange things! my Admiral has some for hers, and looks like she's elsewhere at times😕

Hope you get it sorted Mark 

[druxey]

Hope this is a quick fix for you, Mark.

[BANYAN]

Hopefully all will be sorted for you quickly mate; know where you are at as I have the same issue.

 

cheers

 

Pat

[cog]

Not something to like, mate. Hope the quack figures it out rather sooner than later. However, now you do have the opportunity to use all those beautiful handtools you've got and go where only the ancients went before   Take care my friend

 

Cherio

[Kevin]

get well soon Mark

[bruce d]

All the best, take care care of yourself.

👍

[mtaylor]

Thanks for well wishes.  Luckily I have enough pre-cut planking to allow me to start work on the hull.  If nothing else it will take my mind off things and give me something to focus on.  

[Canute]

Yeah, bud. Get those meds sorted out as soon as you can. Been there, too.

[knightyo]

Another thing you can do is experiment with the type of finish to apply over your pear.   Below is a pic of an experiment I ran on mine.  The left column is just unfinished, the middle column is pear with Formby's Tung Oil Finish (which I learned isn't actually Tung Oil), and in the right column are pieces which had Pentart Patina liquid (50/50 mix of mineral spirits/Pentart) applied over the top of dried Formby's.   I'm going to keep experimenting to see if I can get something between the middle and right columns.  Maybe starting out with a 90/10 mix of mineral spirits/Pentart; it was surprising how dark and strong that medium was.

 

Alan

[bruce d]

5 hours ago, knightyo said:

Formby's Tung Oil Finish (which I learned isn't actually Tung Oil), and in the right column are pieces which had Pentart Patina liquid (50/50 mix of mineral spirits/Pentart) applied over the top of dried Formby's. 

I like the look of the right hand example. My one and only half-hearted attempt to add a finish to some Swiss pear was in the hopes of getting the effect you have achieved.

With decent weather returning I will be back in the shop and doing a few more experiments, it would be good to know what substitute product over here would give the same effect. Must admit to being stumped by the product name & description if it isn't tung oil.

So, a question if you don't mind: what is the Formby's if it isn't tung oil?

 

 

[knightyo]

Hi Bruce,

 

According to the can, Formby's is comprised of tung oil and other "fine penetrating oils".  The can also indicates that it contains aliphatic hydrocarbons.  No, I have no idea what those are.    The guy in the video below tipped me off about the tung oil finishes.  He has a few other products on his bench, one or more of which might be available on your side of the pond as well.  He indicates that most of them, unless they specifically state "100% tung oil" on the bottle/can, are usually only 5% actual tung oil, with the rest being resins, etc.  

 

Is this a bad thing however?  It sounds like these products result in a finish which won't need to be reapplied periodically which tung oil apparently does.  I can't fathom having to reapply a finish over a completed ship model, so I'm thinking these alternate products might be the way to go.

 

I do wonder however, if the Pentart is ok to apply over the top of the Formby's and how that will hold up over time.  It seems like we have a few chemists on the forum, so I might bring this up in the Finishes section to see if anyone has additional information on this point.  With the amount of time we spend on our projects, it would be horrifying if the two products didn't interact nicely over time.

 

Alan

 

 

 

[bruce d]

7 minutes ago, knightyo said:

With the amount of time we spend on our projects, it would be horrifying if the two products didn't interact nicely over time.

Exactly my thoughts.

I also have some tung oil which isn't tung oil. It is quite old and doesn't say much on the tin about what else is in there so I would not dare use it on a model. Maybe furniture, but not a model. The video does a good job of explaining the variations, thanks.

The reason I homed in on the example you posted is because of the colouring. I would like to knock the 'pink' off of the Swiss pear stock I have. Having confidence I can get the result I want would free me up to use t in areas that will be left bright.

As you say, we have some chemists so perhaps there is more to come?

 

Bruce

[mtaylor]

I'm just absorbing this info for now as I'm too far way from being ready to consider any finishes.  But thanks for the discussion as it is enlightening.  

 

I would suggest opening topic here:  https://modelshipworld.com/forum/20-wood-discussionwhere-to-use-it-where-to-get-it-what-types-are-best-how-to-finish-it/   as this might help others is sorting out their finishes.