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Castos

Redrawing of Ship Plans using Fusion 360

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Posted (edited)

Good Day

 

After completing the lesson plans and working through additional books, I have now started to put this knowledge to use. I am using the body plans of Santisima Trinidad.

Firstly, I had to convert the plans to a svg format (with CorelDraw) and then uploaded it into F360 (created a project, Body plan and parts by stage folders.

2nd Sketch:  is the start of the outline, which I have redrawn and still busy with it.

1st Sketch:  is the start of redrawing the lines. The "Caja de Forma" took a better part of 3 hours to draw, as the lines where not accurate. I measured the length and counted how many boxes are there. this gave me the basis on which to draw and should the last box be slightly bigger I tool the difference and re-divided it and continued until I got them all on the same dimension.

 

I will continue redrawing and posting a log.

 

As I am a novice to using CAD and redrawing plans, I beg of you all, to assist and tell me where I am going wrong. It will be greatly appreciated as this will also serve as an inspiration to others to take the plunge and learn, with the advice and assistance from the experts.

ReDraw ST 2.jpg

ReDraw ST 1.jpg

Edited by Castos

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Posted (edited)

Good Morning

 

I have hit a snag with redrawing the Keel. In the attached photo, the plans show a 45 degree line to the inside and then it continues vertically. Is this correct? The horizontal line above is not part of the construction.

I also found out that the ship has a list to Port of 1.6 degrees, which will be corrected once all the plans have been redrawn.

I do not have my books with me only Dean's Doctrine of Naval Architecture and Steel's Books.

ReDraw ST 2 Keel.jpg

Edited by Castos
left out some information

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I have no knowledge of Spanish practice regarding the rabbet and the keel.  I say this to excuse myself from comment only because I would like to be helpful but my knowledge base is restricted to English ships.  I do observe, however, that on RN drawings the keel is more of a convention than an actuality.  The men in the yard would not use a drawing to cut in the rabbet.  So, to answer your question one would have to know the practice of the Spanish yards.  All of this is to say: I don't know.

 

Wayne

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Castos,

 

The "rabbet" is a groove in the keel that the first plank (garboard strake) fits into. It looks to me that the 45 degree angles that you are referring to are the rabbet.

 

Before going too far you must be certain that the vertical and horizontal lines are absolutely perpendicular. Just rotating to eliminate the "list" will not do this. If these lines are not "square" the hull will be warped.

 

Are you planning to use the hull cross-sections to make a 3D model of the hull? Or do you plan to just cut out the bulkheads from your drawings?

 

I would caution you that no matter how carefully you draw the hull lines they almost certainly will be a bit out of true. Some will be slightly "fat" and others "skinny." The result will be a wavy surface on a planked hull model. In some cases you can correct this by sanding down the high spots, but you risk sanding all the way through the planks.

 

If you create a 3D CAD model of the hull using your section lines you can examine the rendered hull by rotating the view and changing the lighting angle. Imperfections will appear as a wavy surface.

 

An even better way is to create horizontal (waterline) contours on the hull - just the lines of intersection between a horizontal plane and the hull surface at different elevations. Then hide the hull and examine the intersect lines by looking at them length wise (bow to stern, etc.). If any of the sections are too wide or too narrow it will cause the waterlines to be wavy instead of being smooth curves from bow to stern.

 

Find the erroneous sections and correct the width. Create new waterlines and repeat the process until all are nice smooth curves. Then you will have a correct set of hull sections.

 

This can be a time consuming process, but the result will be a good set of hull section lines that will produce a smoothly curved hull surface without ripples or low spots.

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Interesting project. I will follow you with interest. Perhaps Fusion 360 is a simpler way for checking my reconstruction.

Do you know, if it is possible to load a DWG file as startup point?

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Thanks to all for the helpful comments.

 

DrPR: all my line drawings are perpendicular to the horizontal and vertical lines. Once I have completed the line drawings all will then  realign all the lines .

AP: as far as I know F360 used dwf and dwg formats. the only reason I used svg, was that I struggled to convert pdf/jpeg/cdr formats to be used in F360.

 

Regards

Andre

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Posted (edited)

I'll be following this topic as I too intend to start making a set of plans in fusion soon. I was thinking of using the sculpt environment to model the hull, then slicing it into sections using a plane cut. This would produce a perfect curve and Allow me to place bulkheads wherever I wanted along the hull. 

I'll probably be starting off with a cross section or battlestation model to get into the swing of things first though. 

 

Cheers: Point. 

Edited by pointfiftytracer

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Good Day

 

I came across a paper by "THE SAILING FRIGATES OF THE SPANISH NAVY  1600 – 1850 - IT’S TECHNICAL EVOLUTION By Enrique Garcia-Torralba Pérez" (Las Fragates de vela de la armada espanol 1600 - 1850)

 

The question about the keel that I asked is correct, based on the drawings in this article.

 

I love it when more people are using F360, which results in a better learning curve for us all)

 

At Present I am redrawing the frame lines, deleting and redrawing, deleting and redrawing etc until it resembles the correct shape. I and using the 3 point arc tool as it can be manipulated to resemble the correct curvature of the frames.

 

Cheers

 

Andre

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One thing I forgot to mention about the 3 point arc. I select two points on the line I want to recreate and then slide (like a slider) the pointer along the line until it matches the curve of the drawing.

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I have progress quite far with the redrawing and will put up some photos later.

 

The only problem I have with F360 so far is that you cannot change the Line Colour. Line Type (broken, dotted, etc) and Line Weight.

 

The tools are good  to use if you think outside the box which I will highlight in the photos I put up.

 

Cheers

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Posted (edited)

What I have done so far and drawing of a slot in F360.

Redraw ST 3.jpg

Redraw ST 3 2 circle.jpg Drawing of circled

Redraw ST 3 slot 2.jpgfinding the centre points for the slot

Redraw ST 3 slot 3.jpgslot is drawn and the circles are removed

Edited by Castos

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Good Day

 

Progressing quite a bit and nearing completion.

 

A problem I had was with the chainplates, as on the drawing it just shows lines and circles. I looked up the correct design for chainplates and will now update the plan I am redrawing.

 

Andre

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Good Day

 

Not much progress as I am having problems with F360.

 

1.   Any action or task (drawing a line) takes from 4 minutes to forever to complete. This happens in both online and offline.

2.   When trimming a line, my whole drawing goes skew and I get lines and angles that I never did.

 

Waiting for an answer from helpdesk, but at this stage it is 75% that I will be going back to CorelDraw.

 

My laptop has more than the requirements as specified and the internet is good. I have done a system clean up, Hard drives have more than enough space and have enough memory.

 

Will keep you posted with the answer from Autodesk.

 

Andre

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Good Day

 

Been out of circulation due to rotation. Have been progressing along slowly with F360 that takes forever to perform an action.

 

I have also purchased EdT's HMS Naiad books to assist me with the redrawing. I will continue to redraw, but have decided that I will build the HMS Naiad, to learn more about scratching building. Having Edt's books and build log would provide the required instruction and it will be a learning curve for me. I must decide on what wood to use, but have already got a fair number of pieces of Equatorial Teak from South Sudan.

 

Whilst searching the internet I came across the below drawings of the ST hull and mast. Is the construction of the mast correct as depicted?

 

Thank you.

ST Detail.pdf

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Some Feedback: redrawing is progressing and I am learning a lot about CAD, a big learning curve for me. It is not as easy as you think, as you continue going back to a recent action to redraw it until it is correct.

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Good Day

 

I am approaching the end of redrawing the plans. the next step will be to get it level. Will post image when I have finished.

 

I have bought both HMS Naiad book's and will be using Edt's treatise on CAD drawing as a learning curve. I will put up my progress and would appreciate advice should I be doing something wrong.

 

By doing this, we all learn and maybe, just maybe it will give someone a shove to start redrawing plans.

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Good Day

 

Progress is still ongoing but very slow due to delayed action on program. I have spoken to Autodesk support and sent a copy of what I am doing and the feedback from them is that there is a lot of constraints on the drawing. They then suggested that I do each of the 3 plans on separate sheets and then combine the drawings as required.

 

Will now learn how to copy and paste the plans that I have already redrawn.

 

I am going to attempt this and will give feedback. as they say "it is back to the drawing board"

 

Cheers

 

Andre

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Good Day

 

I have progress and learnt quite a bit with F360. The drawing is just too big which is causing a delay in performing actions and it was recommended by Autodesk that I do this. I have tried to delete some of the lines in the drawing but to no avail.

So I have decided to delete what I have done and started a fresh. I think it will go easier as I have now learnt a lot about the capabilities of F360.

In the process of all the drawings, I will be increasing the laptop memory from 16Gb to 32Gb as recommended, purchasing a external graphics card to aid in better utilization of F360.  Will give feedback about this.

What I am planning to do, is make separate files for each of the different plans and one plan for the full drawing,

Will keep updating the posts as I go along.

 

Cheers 

Andre

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I have F-360 but haven't really used it yet, Interesting to read that the program is slow when lots of info in on the file you're working with. I get this with my program (TC Platinum 2019). By the time I have all of the designs and drawings for plans on one fine, it is very sluggish and a chore to work with, so then have to separate the drawings to different files.

 

I am wondering if it is the size of the plans you are using? I now bring in my scanned plans in as PDF, making the file a lot smaller and better to work with, having better line definition compared to JPEG.

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Thanks Chris.

 

I have been using a SVG file format. I have also submitted what I have done so far to Autodesk about the slowness of performing actions and the answer was that there are too many constraints.

 

I am going to give it a second attempt with SVG, if not then I will scan the plans as PDF.

 

Regards

Andre 

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What I have done so far is to open 4 folders for each of the SVG plans, where I will then redraw the specific plan as well as all 3 on one plan. thereafter I will copy the different plans into one drawing as required to do the lofting.

Waiting for feedback/assistance from Autodesk on how to delete the SVG image from the plans.

 

Andre

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Good Day

 

After starting to redraw the plans for the umpteenth time, I have gone the CAD way after receiving an educational license.

 

The problem I have been having with F360 is that once I save a drawing, I cannot go back to delete a line or join a line. I also get told that I have to many constraints even though it is off, but no-one tells you how to correct it.

 

So this thread is now dead and will start a new one.

 

Thanks

 

Andre

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I am sorry to say, but no matter what you try, CAD will be slow, if worked on laptop. It is a combination of factors. Mobile grade processors without dedicated GPU is your bottle neck. I have been trying to do 1080p video editing on my macbook pro with i7 processor and have given up. Performance sluggish, same behavior as you describe. I gave up. Built myself a computer with i7 desktop grade processor, tonne of memory and dedicated GPU. No problems since.

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Posted (edited)

The main problem with laptops is inadequate cooling of the CPU. The i5s and i7s generate a lot of heat when all of the cores are running 100%. The tiny fans in laptops cannot remove all of this heat fast enough.

 

To avoid meltdown (literally!) the processors have a protection circuit that stops the CPU clock momentarily, stopping heat production to allow the fans to catch up. This slows down program execution significantly. The more heat that is generated the more frequent the clock delays. If stopping the clock doesn't work the CPU voltage is reduced (higher voltage makes more heat). But some components will not work correctly at lower voltages so the system eventually crashes (BSOD - Blue Screen Of Death).

 

When Win 7 came out laptops began crashing regularly with the BSOD. Oddly, this would happen only on certain days and times. In it's effort to make computers more useful Microsoft made hard drive file defragmentation automatic, not requiring the user to start it (because most users didn't even know why it needed to be done or when to do it). Unfortunately, when the weekly scheduled defrag started all cores were run at 100%, processors overheated and the computer stopped working. This happened only on laptops and not on desktop machines that had lots of fans and coolers for the CPU.

 

 Win 8/10 came out defrag was implemented bit by bit, periodically while the computer was running. This kept up with the fragmentation of files so the defrag process never lasted long enough to generate enough heat to crash laptops. But it does slow things down every now and then.

 

****

 

Laptops are useful for very slow operations, such as typing and reading email, where the processor is waiting on the user most of the time. CAD programs, image rendering, complex spreadsheets and such can run the processors full time, and that causes the CPU to overheat, resulting in very sluggish performance.

 

I have a 2 GHz i7 laptop and a 3.4 GHz i7 desktop. The desktop is many, many times faster than the laptop for complex CAD work. It has 10 fans in the chassis and a liquid cooler for the CPU, and I have never seen the CPU slow down because of overheating. The fans normally run very slowly so they are barely audible, but for really long complex operations the fans sometimes start roaring like the thing was about to lift off!

 

Edited by Dr PR

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Posted (edited)

Actually, you can setup a good laptop for doing CAD but it costs a little more than usual. As a professional Solidworks and Solid Edge user, I use a very fine website that HP has for business machines. You can load up your laptop to handle pretty well any software you can think of. My old HP used to heat my office and needed a large fan underneath as well as a house fan blowing across my desk constantly, in order to ward off the BSOD. My new machine will handle over 300 parts before the internal fan turns on. I never have to wait for a feature to process, either.

 

I don't remember how many I7 cores it has, or what graphics card I put in there but I do know it has 2 TB of SSD and that, also, makes a huge difference in speed. 

 

(I have no shares in HP, either). 

 

All this 3D CAD stuff has become a big part of my hobby, too. The good computer really helps!

 

 

 

 

Edited by rshousha
more info

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Thanks for all the replies.

 

I unfortunately work outside (6weeks/2weeks) of South Africa and have to rely on my laptop. 

 

I am in the process of increasing my memory to 32GB from 16GB and getting external graphics card (Sonnet eGFX Breakaway Box 550w (GPY-550w-TB3) and AMD Graphics Card J3G93AA AMD Firepro W7100, to improve the laptop. I did research on the graphics card and found this to be the best.

 

When posing the problem on the forums, telling them the problem you have (for example: Drawing Lines - saving the drawing; coming back a day later to continue drawing from you left off, you can continue from the previous lines (joining) r deleting lines, the only answer you get is that there is a lot of constraints, but no-one tells you how to get rid of them, except that the question your level of competence.

 

This is the sole reason why I am going back to AutoCAD as I recently received an Education license, and can get around it.

 

I will also be using EDT's HMS Naiad books as a guideline, especially the CAD section.

 

Regards to all.

 

Andre

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Hello Andre, 

 

Sadly, you are right. Over the years, I tried many of the less expensive software packages and always seemed to have the same experience as you. Eventually, I decided to spend the money, go back to school (900 hour course) and then spend the money on a real computer and a full Solidworks license. I justified the cost because the whole thing is about the same cost as a typical hobby. The only thing is you have to consider the CAD itself as the hobby, and not just a tool that you use once in a while. 

 

Once you've done that, the whole education thing changes completely. Once you are paying into the game, you have instant, or nearly instant, access to really excellent technicians and you also have access to parts of forums that are only accessible to people who pay. 

 

It's a bit of a stretch to make the decision to pay into one of these fancy-pants products but the difference, if you use it to do some interesting work, is well worth the cost to play. 

 

p.s. I'm a big fan of Autocad but I am mostly doing design for manufacturing and the 3D packages are better for that. 

 

One of these days, I want to get back to Autocad to make some really nice drawings of stuff. 

 

Regards, 

 

Rick 

 

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Posted (edited)

Andre,

 

I have used quite a few CAD programs over the last 30 years. Here are a few things I have learned.

 

Before you choose any CAD program be sure to look at the user Forum. First of all, is it free? Is it open to everyone, including non-registered users? If not, move on to another program. Any company that limits access to users' comments is more interested in wringing every penny out of its customers than providing help for the users. You can also be sure they censor posts to their forums to eliminate any negative comments.

 

Second, is technical support free? Or do you have to pay a yearly subscription - even after you have paid for the program? If so, the company really isn't interested in supplying technical support. I have used CAD packages that extort several thousand dollars per year just for technical support! To make matters worse, often the "technical support" people have little experience with the program (just someone the suits hired to read prewritten statements), and they may not speak your language.

 

Third, are updates to fix bugs free, or do you have to pay to correct the programmer's mistakes? Again, this tells you something about the company and what you can expect from them in the future.

 

Forth, can you transfer files from the CAD program to and from other CAD programs? Look at the list of file types the program supports. Some CAD programs have little or no ability to work with files from other programs - especially to export to other CAD programs. Some companies deliberately limit export capabilities so their users are trapped into continuing to use their program. They don't want you to be able to move your existing designs to another program.

 

****

 

I use DesignCAD 3D MAX. It is a full featured 2D/3D CAD program. Our company started using it in 1988 (it was called ProDesign back then). The user Forum is open to everyone. It has many very experienced users who can answer just about any question you post. Furthermore, some of the users are more knowledgeable than the technical support people. Technical support people monitor the Forum, and jump in to answer questions. Bug fixes and annual updates are free. The program has absolutely the best user interface I have seen for any software. Is it perfect? No, but it sells for about $100.

 

Don't take the cost of the program as a measure of the quality. I have used a $15,000 program that had lousy documentation, poor support, and lacked many of the 3D drawing features DesignCAD has! If you have doubts what you can do with an inexpensive CAD program, check out this link:

 

https://www.okieboat.com/CAD model.html

 

Or follow the link to my post on this Forum:

 

 

Edited by Dr PR

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