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PhilB

late medieval cog by PhilB - scale 1:50 (about)

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This is my first build log, so please be gentle. <g>

 

First, a little background. I play Pathfinder, a fantasy medieval roleplaying game, and use lots of figures, buildings, trees and other decor on the tabletop during our games. So a few months back, I started my RPG group on a new pirate-themed campaign, and decided I needed to build some ships for the visual appeal on the tabletop. I am not a real ship modeller. No elaborate oak or cherrywood planking here. I'll be working primarily with balsa and basswood, and winging it every step of the way. But I still thought it would be a good idea to share my progress and tribulations here, in hopes of getting some good advice from the real ship modellers here. I have to say I am impressed and more than a bit intimidated by all the fine work you folks have done, and have spent countless hours reading your build logs, especially those dealing with medieval ships, like viking longships, cogs, carracks and caravels. The models you build are simply awe-inspiring, and although my efforts will fall far, far below the standard in evidence here, I will dare to post nonetheless.

 

My basic concept involves building waterline models using a foam core - a basic hull shape carved from a sheet of insulation foam, and glueing a 1mm-thick balsa sheet to form the hull, pre-scribing planking to simulate individual planks. Perhaps in the future I will try using more noble materials, and acquairing the tools necessary to work with harder wood, but for now, I'm winging it with balsa that I can bend to form.

 

As a proof-of-concept project, I began with a small knarr - the same basic shape as a longship, but much smaller, for 6 to 8 28mm figures. You can read the full project tutorial here., and below is the result.

 

I'm going to post this bit, to see if the links work as expected, then serve up the cog project.

 

 

comingashore.jpg

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Hmmm. Image links seem a bit wonky on this site, I'll have to go back and check about formatting.

 

So, the cog project. As before, I began with a sheet of insulation foam (the dense kind). Using a 2D top-down projection of a ship (probably a small caravel) I traced the outline onto a cardboard template (opting for a pointed stern rather than a flat stern) then cut out the foam, eyeballing the angle that would support the hull pieces in subsequent stages of the project. I wanted the hull to be more verticle than in my previous knarr project, but still to be slightly splayed, as many of the cogs I'd seen on a google search.

hull-template.jpg

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On this 20mm-thick insulation foam, I planned to use 1mm-thick balsa that I (now) knew could be easily bent to this shape. I first prepared cardboard templates for the hull planking, temporarily  pinning them in place, and planning for the height of the fore and aft-castles. I should've made the aft-castle slightly higher, but that's the sort of thing you learn when scratchbuilding by the seat of your pants.hull-template2.jpg.b3ae640ab33b8a2565d559553f7e1ada.jpg

Once I'd decided on the profile, it was time to cut balsa, scribe it to represent the individual planking (anathema, I know, but hey) and get it ready to soak for 8 hours to become pliable.hull-template3.jpg.e74452020c761a1deebd35a448aa6804.jpg

Then I was ready to bend, pin and glue in place one side after the other. Since I'd taken them both out of the water bath, while the first side was being glued, I temporarily pinned the other side into the scrap foam, so as to espouse the approximate shape desired while the glue dried.

 

hull-balsa.jpg.4477f2b0eb702ef8c5d641c5e53d544a.jpg

Yeah, that's a lotta pins, but I couldn't suss out any other method to hold the balsa in place while the glue dried. With the other side glued in place, I could start thinking about the fore and aft keel sections.

hull-balsa4.jpg.f903dca7abb92242e1d5651f04f20afb.jpg

Then, it was time for the ship's ribs. From my google search, I'd seen that some ribs were far more massive than others. So I decided to alternate one thick rib with two thinner ribs, over the entire length of the ship. Even the parts under the fore and aft castles had to be done, because I wanted to make the fore and aft-castle decks removable, so as to be able to use those spaces during game play. I finally decided to do individual deck planks, with wide lateral strips to match the wide ribs, and thinner longitudinal strips between them. The idea was that those longitudinal planks would be removed to grant access to the hold when loading cargo - in theory, since the actual cargo hold wouldn't be accessible on this model, because of the foam core. So I started with a square bit to insert the mast later, and an intial row of planks in the middle of the ship.

hull-deck.jpg.41b99f2c9e7cebde25ef956130a9e7d2.jpg

Planking continued (shaving off individual planks to simulate use and wear) until done.

hull-deck2.jpg.545fab3d62b289ed96ede28f8c8848c4.jpg

Doing individual planks made it a lot easier to work around the ship's ribs. Once that was finished, I decided to slap some paint on there. As with the previous small knarr project, I decided to paint the hull a dark brown, to be lightened later with grey drybrushing.

 

hull-deck4.jpg.75297fca58ae7cc5a564e5f31539af02.jpg

I've included a pirate figure for scale.

 

More soon... the project has progressed but my typing time has run out. I hope this project isn't too amateurish for these boards, and very soon I'm going to be asking you folks for advice on some trick points I'm agonising over.

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That's an impressive amount of work.  It seems you've climbed the learning curve very well.

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Posted (edited)

Thanks, Mark. I had a glance at your Licorne and it's simply amazing - maybe one day when I get all the right tools, I too might graduate from balsa to more noble woods.

 

Continuing from last night's post I arrive at my first conundrum: what form to give the forecastle. I can't help thinking that this problem would be easier to address if I'd just settled on a target picture, painting or model that I wanted to emulate, instead of carrying around this jumble of all the cogs in all the world to yearn after. So it goes like this. Some of the cogs have very small, very high forecastles, some none at all. Some have lower and larger forecastles, and that seemed better for me since I want enough space for a good number of figures to fight it out in colorful boarding actions.

 

Second consideration, with or without castle-like crenelations. I looked long and hard at the cogs that used crenelations, and decided they just looked too "medieval" for our pirate campaign. That's part of the anachronism inherent in fantasy-medieval RPGs. The tropes and the atmosphere don't always correspond to historical timelines.

 

And the fatal bad decision: many cogs seemed to have rectilinear forecastles, and at the stage I was at, that seemed like a good idea. But now it's built, it's the part of the hull that pleases me the least. So I'm strongly thinking about chucking that part of the model and doing something with nicer curves to it.

forecastle.jpg.28b5dd74383db3202dcce3ba2712d5f0.jpg

The fore and aft-castles are both removable, with most of the beams adhering to the upper decking, so as to give access to the space below during games. And to show off any detailing work that ends up getting done. So the planking on those castles is a single piece of balsa scribed to represent planks, rather than the individual plankwork on the main deck, because I needed the strength and rigidity on these pieces that will be removed fairly often. The downside is that it looks too "regular" and uniform to my eye. But after painting and weathering I suppose that will be less noticeable.

 

Now, if you look at the tail end of the forecastle above, you can see my second conundrum: how to blend the removeable forecastle into the rest of the ship? I was dreading doing the railing all along the gunwales, since it seems to curve in three directions at once. But in the end, all it took was a bit of time and patience and starting the piece over three times to get it (mostly) right.

 

railing-detail.jpg.5f62258b034cd0e1ed429110479599c1.jpg

And that's where I am this morning. Ready to install doorframes, doors, railings, anchor, capstain and so on. Oh, and I have to deal with the troublesome quandary of the rudder. And probably rip off the stern peice of keel and do it over.

 

Just to show why I'm doing this project in the first place, here is my first batch of pirate figures (from Wargames Foundry). You can also see my problem with the rudder. I should've kept the stern piece of keel a consistent narrow width over the height of the keel, and the rudder would have approximated the shape of the piece I've used. Now I fear I'll need to cut it off entirely and do that bit over. That's what happens when you jump in with both feet before thinking things through.

 

pirates.jpg.e93b708685ddbf64003ef930d5cd12f4.jpg

Edited by PhilB

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Hi Phil,

I don't know Pathfinder, but from what I've seen your ability to make structural parts for use in the game is very positive and aesthetically pleasing, I agree with Mark

7 hours ago, mtaylor said:

It seems you've climbed the learning curve

and I think it's very positive, probably like everyone, when we start new jobs the lack of experience can cause some mistakes, it's always like this at the beginning, but the determination and the passion will surely allow you to improve, avoiding small mistakes .. .

you can see if it is possible to recover, or in the worst condition to rebuild ... can't you open a small hole in the stern wheel prepare a rudder with the bar and stop it inside?

anyway go ahead, a good job will come, rest assured !!!

 

"hoping that the translator does a "good job"

 

good job

black Wolf

 

 

 

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Thanks, Luponero. I don't quite catch your meaning when you say, "can't you open a small hole in the stern wheel prepare a rudder with the bar and stop it inside?"

 

Here are my three options for the rudder, as I see them:

 

1) The original plan was to have the rudder top come up to the top deck, and have the tiller be exposed and visible there.

2) Ideally, the lower level of the main deck would be better for steerage, but since I decided to have a pointed stern instead of a flat, trucated stern, I don't think that would work out on this model.

3) Since this model is intended for gaming, I could just leave the stern bit of keel as it is with no attempt to simulate the waterline portion of the rudder at all. Just call it an abstraction and call it a day. But that just feels *wrong* somehow.

 

I think I have another reason for replacing the stern piece of keel: the contact with the hull planking is... definitely sub-optimal, especially on the right side which you haven't seen yet. Another advantage of redoing that piece would be to work at getting a better shape to more closely espouse the vagaries of the hull shape, which was far from perfect, especially at the stern.

 

In fact, I can't help thinking that my choice of a pointed stern would've been better suited to side rudders than a stern rudder. But it's too late for that on this model. The upside is that this project should be finished fairly quickly, and I can move on to improvements in design in the next one - which is the main reason I'm coming to talk about it here.

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Posted (edited)

Hi Phil,

 

You're doing a good job with your cog. You'll find all kinds of models on this forum, including even some 3D digital ones for gaming (plus an embroidered portrait of HMS Agamemnon in cross-stitch), so don't worry about your balsa wood one. It's all about the enjoyment of the build, not about impressing people - though some of the builds on this forum leave me slack-jawed with awe.

 

I love mediaeval and renaissance ships, and the cog is a particularly attractive one.

 

I think for the purpose you're building it for, your cog is totally ok, and your construction method is quite adequate for the job the ship is to do. A lot of ship models (including my own) fudge the bits that are below decks. "If you can't see it, it's not there".

 

You might like to get some more information on cogs (if you don't have it already) from https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bremen_cog and https://artsandculture.google.com/exhibit/owKSqVwIBfJGJw . Though many cogs had rectangular forecastles, the Bremen cog doesn't seem to have had one (though it seems to have been under construction when it sank - maybe they hadn't got around to adding the forecastle yet?).

 

I think Luponero's idea (he's writing in Italian and Google is translating into English for him) is to cut a small hole in the stern, and add a rudder with a fake tiller that just goes through the hole and stops.

 

My own opinion is that you should add an aftercastle like on the Bremen cog. At this time the castles weren't integral with the hull- they were sort of just "plonked" onto ships as an afterthought.

 

If you compare your model with the pictures of the Bremen cog, and particularly the model on the second link above, you can see that the sternpost that supports the rudder goes up on an angle, following the angle of the hull, and the rudder is swung from that. I think you should trim the sternpost to be like that and then add a rudder (which is what I think you had in mind in your post #5 above) , and the rudder comes up through the aftercastle, the tiller can be above the deck of the aftercastle, which is what I believe you are after. I hope that makes sense.

 

Oh, by the way your Viking boat at the top would be better called a faering (four-oared boat). A knarr was a fairly large merchant/cargo ship.

 

Keep up the good work, and if by any chance you do go over to the Dark Side and get into serious modelling, you'll find this community very friendly and helpful.

 

Steven

Edited by Louie da fly

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hi Phil,

obviously you have to evaluate yourself if it is convenient to make the change,
Steven understood the change, I try to bring back photos
with changes in "red"

 

 

hull-deck2.jpg.545fab3d62b289ed96ede28f8c8848c4.jpg.220f60e024de7fd950c345d1c2714c48.jpg

1280px-Bremen_Hansekogge_RolandvonBremen.jpg.e1114b9080a6743330ae853ff4cfe8c2.jpg

 

evaluates "if the game is not worth the candle" Italian proverb deriving from the French saying " “le saint (le jeu) ne vaut pas la chandelle”.

 

to the next
my friends, we are in about twenty days

 

Fabio

 

alias luponero

 

 

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Hmmm.

 

It would indeed be more logical for the tiller to come out on the level of the main deck. But if I do that, there can be no more stern post above that level. I will need to whack off the back point from the hull, leaving a small but significant blunt stern.

 

This is what I get for not working from a single model or source.

 

This sounds like a good plan, maybe the best option for finishing this model. I have a feeling it's going to end up looking more like a caravel than a cog.

 

Thanks for the detailed suggestions, Fabio.

 

And thanks to Steven. I had indeed seen those sites on cog research. I think you're suggesting to continue the stern post up to the second level on the model, the raised aft deck. That was my original idea, given that I'd built the stern post to rise the full height of the hull, but Fabio's suggestion is attractive too. One thing's for sure, once I whack a bit off the stern, there's no going back.

Fortunately my materials (foam and balsa, mostly) are very forgiving.

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Depending on the era, early on, the tiller was actually below the poop deck.  So you can justify leaving the tiller off the model.

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And so that's what I did. Thanks for the advice, guys. That's why I came to post on these boards, to have the benefit of your sage advice.

 

This also resolved a niggling problem that wasn't visible in earlier photos: I slightly bungled the right rear section of the hull, leaving a gap with the original stern post.

stern01.jpg.b00f560e06745118199306e9d8e51063.jpg

Time for major surgery! I whacked off the stern post...

stern02.jpg.91a8092bcbb36e27fc90faacaba5fb55.jpg

Then calculated where the tiller should go, and whacked off a bit more.

stern03.jpg.b21f0858135d42709adac8570edd3e73.jpg

After cleaning up the hole a bit, I carved a new stern post, rudder and tiller out of balsa.

stern04.jpg.da6304157ded0cc564cd9d22564b2b6f.jpg

And then faced the conundrum of how to fix it in place. I couldn't resist the idea of having a working hinge, and since I don't have any brass, or tools to work it, I got my Macgyver hat on and scrounged up the inside tube of an old pen, a piece of wire (leftover from spearshafts) and some thin cardboard from a medicine box.

stern05.jpg.8120b9a1ca5a217f2740aeac45fb63f7.jpg

It all came out a bit large for scale, but now that it's done I think it'll have to stay.

stern07.jpg.fbcb2f35e68e2f00c4d4af27a4e9354f.jpg

Of course, it all needs paint, and the strips of cardboard will become iron. I still need to do a bit of filing and sanding and painting, and then do a serious grey wash to weather the whole thing, but progress has been made.

 

Next steps will be railing along the fore and aft castles (tricky since the aft castle deck is removable but the gunwales aren't) and some minimalist rigging.

 

Regarding the railing, I've got a question. I don't have a lathe, but if I manage to clamp a power drill in place, is it feasable to shape toothpicks (or barbecue skewers) for the posts, or will they just break every time I try to shape them?

 

 

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Definitely McGyver! A clever solution to the problem, and looks pretty good, too, though I think I'd make the hole in the hull smaller - it doesn't need to be that big for the rudder/tiller combination to work.

 

Yes, it's probably possible to turn tooth[picks in a clamped drill. There was a thread on this forum some time ago about someone making a poor man's lathe that way, and it seemed to work well. However, toothpicks are a bit rough and ready when you get them from the shop, so don't be suprised if you have a fair proportion of failures. Just keep at it - it should turn out ok with some practice and a bit of wastage.

 

Steven

Edited by Louie da fly

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Thanks, Steven.

My plan is to put in a sort of sill to bring the opening up to the level of the tiller, and to put some trim around the sides and top.

Now that the hinges are done, I'm disappointed at how bulky they are. I don't think I'll redo them, but the next ship will need a more elegant solution. Maybe I can source some really small brass tubing. There are no hobby shops round these parts, so whatever I can find in a big hardware store is the best I can do.

 

I'll give the toothpick idea a whirl. I expect I'll have to make a kind of jig to hold the drill properly. Using toothpicks as-is feels like it would be too bulky, and it'd be nice to have the railing look good. I see you have some experience with a "poor man's lathe" yourself, that dromon project is amazing. I can see I'll have to up my game.

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