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Beckmann

HMS Winchelsea by Beckmann 1/48

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Yesterday I glued tue transom in position. All looked well. The ivory windows fit is not bad as well.20200305_205913.thumb.jpg.a2e7bb39dd17d2593c44e23a6bc5d513.jpg

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but today I realised, that I produced a severe problem by not sanding down the outer frames enough.

I don't know how to fix that yet.

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I have seen this problem in some other build logs as well, so check that guys, before you glue the transom in position. 

Matthias

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Its not a huge issue but yes it requires a fix.   You can simply cut a bit off of your filler like this below.   But also carefully slice a bit from your window on the inboard side as well.  As long as it looks centered when you view the false window from the other side. 

beckmannfix.jpg

But in addition....you might consider chiseling some of that planking away.   The filler is 3/32" thick.  So draw a line that represents this on your hull and chisel away some of that planking.  Maybe another 1/32" or even all of the planking.  But remember to glue a filler block on the inboard side of your planking before you start chiseling.  You will need a backer there for your planks.....between the stern post and that qgallery door.

beckmannfix.jpg

 

These are all things to consider.  You can do a combination of all three.  Its up to you.   I hope that helps.  Yes most folks underfair the hull back there.

 

 

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Thanks Chuck for the advice. I will carefully try to correct the shape by removing the short planks behind the door to the Qgallery, maybe I manage to  cut lose the 3 planks above and then correct the shape of the frame.

Today the parts of chapter 3 arrived, so I have a good guide with thd laser cut part.

 

 

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I am sure you can fix that right up.  The windows do look good and they fit really well.

 

For everyone else,   have a look below.  You can tell pretty easily if you havent faired the outside stern frames enough.  Notice how the outside stern frames are nearly the same width as the four inside frames when viewing the stern head on.  This is important and everyone should correct this if they can before they start chapter 3.   Those outside stern frames should be thinned down considerably.  Compare these to the width of Matthias' outside sterm frames.   I would say probably in the neighborhood of 1/16" too wide....give or take.  I have drawn a red line to show you guys.  Its also shown on the plans.

sterncarvings6.jpg

beckmannfix.jpg

 

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Having those suggestions from Chuck, I'm sure that you will fix this. Looking at sheet two, one can see the fairing line suggested. That would reduce the frame down to a little under 3/16" from its original 1/4" width.

from-sheet-2.jpg.e08a84b0644918f300f85e1e926aee57.jpg

Mike

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I had a little battle with my Winnie and that is the result. 

First I removed the small planks behind the door to the Qgallery. Then I shortened the 3 planks above and cut them loose from the frame. After correcting the shape of the frame I added the Qgallery transom peace and glued everything together again. I think it is close  to the position it should be now.

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20200308_122212.thumb.jpg.88e1814da95e574be9aac6063a0eb175.jpg

And thank you Chuck and Mike for your help.

Matthias

 

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That will work.  Unfortunately things like this will happen but there is always a way to correct it.

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They happen quite often in my building of Winchelsea. I hope, I can reduce that in future.

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2 hours ago, Beckmann said:

They happen quite often in my building of Winchelsea. I hope, I can reduce that in future.

From my perspective, you’re doing a phenomenal job on Winnie.  I just finished creating the exact problem you’ve just solved.  Thank you for showing me how to fix it!

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After the ivory experiment wit the stern windows, I could not resistent trying to somehow use my ebony piano keys. So here is the result.20200315_163645.thumb.jpg.53c7dda638120c4658c080cbbe51c530.jpg

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I hope you are all well.

Matthias

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Very nice....you are moving along...😀

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Dont curve/bend the template it should be flat across.  And the aft edge lined up as you show it.  Now the angle of your transom dictates where this template falls.   Unfortunately your transom looks like it was tilted a bit too far aft.  But you need to go with where the template shows either way.  Otherwise your laser cut pieces wont fit. Although you may have some wiggle room.  This part of the construction will always show where measurements and angles went astray of the plans Earlier in your build.  It will mean some creative adjustments are probably in your future.

 

in addition you didnt really follow the steps in order for the Qgallery construction.  Thats ok but....That bottom piece of the stool shouldnt be glued on yet and is definitely not at the correct angle.  You will run into some serious issues.  Your stool wont be consistent the way it is laid out currently.  The template dictates the angle of your qgalleries.   You need to put the top 1/8” stool beam in position first above it and then take some measurements to put that lower piece in which will leave a consistent width for the stool as the upper counter wraps around.  Both pieces should be at the same angle as dictated by the template.  Hope that makes sense.

 

This is a very complex structure.  I recommend you stick with the step by step as laid out in the instructions.  I also recommend you slow down with this particular area and really double check your angles and measurements before you commit and glue everything in permanently.  Tape them on first and examine them from many differnt angles to see how they are looking.  

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Hmmmmmm....

I propably forced the stern frames too much back, when I glued the filler pieces between the last bulkhead and the stern frame. This can not be corrected any more. Maybe I must make new quarter gallery windows with a tiny little bit more distortion. Otherwise the forward ending of the quarter gallery will lift too much up. The angle must be parallel to the planking. Is that right?

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That is exactly right......100%.  So you have some choices to make.   Skew the angle of the template just a hair lower on the forward edge.   You will be Ok.   In addition however, that lower pie piece is also at the wrong angle.  So it is throwing off how you look at the template while its in position.  You should seriously remove it.  It is too much in the other direction with the forward end too low.  So you need to split the difference between both.  Try not to use the run of your wales which is also a bit irregular.  Notice how the run of your planking along the top of the template matches the template angle when viewing it head on.   You are not that far off but have a lot of inconsistencies to deal with.  You will need to use your judgement to establish a new angle for that template that will more or less follow the run of your planking.  I would use the run of your upper planking rather than the wales as I mentioned.  Some weird stuff going on with those.

 

But yes you will probably be making some parts over again unfortunately.   This is why the earlier parts of the build are so crucially important.  As I have been saying,  slow down quite a bit more and check all measurements and angles against the plans carefully.  Its is not a race.  It almost always has implications down the line.  Not a complete disasters but yes, it means you probably will not be able to use many of the laser cut parts.  Although for other folks I have included many extra qgallery windows at varying angles of skew for just this sort of thing.  I anticipated that this would happen after watching many many qgalleries be built over the years.   

 

Also remember that the figure on the side of the transom will cover quite a bit.  So if you just tilt the entire template lower on the forward side without skewing it.....it would be very hard to tell anything went wrong.  Most of that aft-most fluted column is covered by that carved figure.  Hope that makes sense also.  So its a very good cheat to help you get back on track.  But we are talking just a 1mm maybe 1.5mm on the front end.  Its really hard to tell in your photos because you bent the template and its not flat and that lower piece is throwing everything off.   Remove that lower piece and tape the template on again properly.  Then take some more pictures.

 

Chuck

 

 

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Here is a blurry pic I just took on my cell phone to show you the angle.  Its not perfect by any means.  But more or less follows the run of the planking.   So dont worry about getting a perfect match but it needs to be pretty close.  This is when you view it from head on.   Hope this helps.

 

qgalangle.jpg

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That looks just as it should.   Much better.   Just follow the steps in the right order.  They were designed to keep everything lined up anticipating several steps ahead!!!  Just like playing chess.   Make sure you repeat that on the other side and they match.  And like I said....if you have to lower that forward end a bit (just a hair) it will be fine.   

 

Hows the other side look?

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That side needs some work.  Theres a lot of weirdness going on.  I would say get rid of that lower piece....its not correct.    and adjust that angle slightly upward on its forward end when repositioning it.   And still adjust the template a bit downward on its forward end.

 

Almost there though.   But that bottom piece is really off in my opinion.   But I imagine  you dont want to remove it?

 

Chuck

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Any time....that is what this group is all about.

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This has been an interesting recycling experiment with the old piano keys being used in your model. So far looking very good. Keep up the great work.

 

Brian :)

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I made some corrections. First I managed to carefully cut loose the stern frame from the planks and filler peaces. Then I reduced the length of the planks a tiny little bit, in order to get the stern frame a bit more upright. Next, I removed the bottom peace of the qgallery. After checking with the Papier template I glued it in position again. 

 

20200324_230112.thumb.jpg.e28e90488d3197a394b84e334632e1be.jpg

Matthias

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That is looking much better.  Remember that you will have a little wiggle room should you want to lower the forward side just a bit more.  But i think that looks very good.

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