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Heronguy

HMS Winchelsea 1764 by Heronguy - 1/48

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With trepidation I'm starting this project.  I will be attempting to scratch build the components although I'm likely to take advantage of special mini-kits like lanterns and carvings.  I have most of the tools I need for a scratch build but not much useful experience!  I'm happy to follow the suggestion and stick with cedar for the build.  

 

I have too many unfinished projects to warrant starting another.  However this one pulled me in both by the promise of learning some new skills and by the (probably optimistic) belief that I can multitask several builds at different stages completion. 

 

It is also motivation to be part of a group project.  Chuck's willingness to mentor the group is a great plus. 

 

Cha Gheill

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Plans have been printed and the the 1st dust created.

 

I was expecting to need to purchase a scroll saw for this build but noticed a post here (can't find it to give credit) that the dremel motosaw did the trick for the bulkhead former and bulkheads.  So...

 

1288461331_IMG_5005(1).thumb.jpg.be9f615a9da39a6709eafad707bb5e2e.jpg

2110446007_IMG_0311(1).jpg.2a963132243d33befc751cd3af99fdc9.jpg

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These are cut from some inexpensive plywood as a test.  I don't have easy access to Baltic Birch ply for the bulkhead former so I may go ahead with this wood.  I will recut the bulkhead with the exterior ply running vertically to reduce the amount of chipping at the pointy parts.  This plywood is a bit more than 1/4" so I've had to make the slots in the bulkheads and BF a bit wider to fit.  It turns out it is easier to cut close to the correct size 1st and not try to widen the slots after.  I kinda botched the efforts on THAT process so I'll recut the BF.  All part of the learning!

 

 

 

 

 

 

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That could be an issue that its wider.  I hope not too much wider.  The sides of the bulkheads determine placement of the ports.  Also if the ply is rough which is what that looks like, you will need to fill and sand the sides of the ply so it can be painted to look decent.  If when you widen the slots you make sure to keep the side that locates the port the same, and widen the other side.....you should be fine.

 

Chuck

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2 hours ago, DocBlake said:

Wherever did you find commercial 1/4” plywood that is thicker than 1/4”??  It’s ALWAYS thinner in my experience!

Just lucky I guess.  Local building supply store.  Nothing there dimensioned in metric so that doesn’t likely explain it either.

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1 hour ago, Chuck said:

That could be an issue that its wider.  I hope not too much wider.  The sides of the bulkheads determine placement of the ports.  Also if the ply is rough which is what that looks like, you will need to fill and sand the sides of the ply so it can be painted to look decent.  If when you widen the slots you make sure to keep the side that locates the port the same, and widen the other side.....you should be fine.

 

Chuck

The calipers say 17/64” (.264” .666mm).  Yes the ply is a bit rough and was g1s grade.  Your comments make me consider heading to a bigger centre to purchase better plywood.  I can chalk this one up to a practice sheet!  I am at least comfortable with my little scroll saw.  

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I have received the new plywood.  I'll have to get back to the print shop to get the 11x17 sheets but I have lots to do 'til then. Now starts the task (2nd time around) of cutting and sanding the formers and bulkheads.IMG_5024.jpg.809d08fc0b5587a12ebe7afd7ccd53d9.jpg 

I came across a YouTube video of a DIY scroll saw sanding blade.  The trick was double sided tape and a used saw blade.  Seems like a useful way to clean up the areas where neither the disk sander or spindle sander will reach.

 

IMG_5025.jpg.8e86ef50293eb8015fa528c7b00930b0.jpgIMG_5026.jpg.b01072e9b32b86102dd3a856063656e6.jpgIMG_5027.jpg.4ed71cc709e56f53cabcb123c17469dd.jpg

 

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Ya can’t steal what’s freely given!  

 

I agree that it works well on the slots.  I was using a sanding stick and found it was splintering the plywood a bit.  This method worked much better for me. (Quicker too)

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I now have 2 sets of bulkheads and bulkhead formers cut out.  I tried running the bulkhead former made from the >1/4" plywood through a planer to thin it down as an experiment.  Not too bad a result but I used a belt sander to take if down a bit more.  I haven't yet tried to use the belt sander on the bulkheads themselves though I may today.

 

 

Meanwhile I've been dry fitting the "new" bulkheads. About 1/3 of them are done.

 

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I have a goal of trying to scratch build as much as possible on this project.  Although I have some Alaska Yellow Cedar purchased a couple of years ago I don't have a bandsaw for resewing the board.  I'll be ok for strips for planking but the larger sheets for the stem and other components is a bit more challenging.  Being concerned about the sheets I was going to order some from Syren but must have been seduced by the laser cut material for chapter 1.

 

When I got the order from Syren I decided that I had a great backstop with the laser cut stem so I may as well try my hand at scratching the same pieces.

 

I only had 3/4"x2" wide cedar so I cut down the billet on a table saw and thicknesses to 1/4"

IMG_5057.thumb.jpg.7234548a71ff4835f8d4aa6ac1097143.jpg

While I was at it I also did the same with a piece of cherry

 

IMG_5039.jpg.8c086bef1abd989a4af15e8a5bf398b7.jpg

My version and the laser cut sheet

IMG_5060.jpg.2dc60f4fd5144d6b2c2371a06954647b.jpg

I wanted to see what the cherry version would be like.

IMG_5063.thumb.jpg.b03f16f96b85a7fc036126d13b8b648e.jpg

 

IMG_5067.thumb.jpg.439871cfb58355c786fd1d3dc462567f.jpg

 

IMG_5075.jpg.bcc6cd7c756e1195e82c25ab3c0c6c44.jpg

 

The laser cut version is clearly superior in precision of fit and with the laser char defined joints.  My cedar version is not too bad.  My cherry version demonstrated to me that once would have to be very careful matching colour and grain to get a consistent look.

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No idea what I'll do just yet.  I like working with the cherry wood but the cedar seems like it will be much easier to work with when I get to planking.  Since I have 2 "skeletons" I might keep on dressing each one until I get worn down. 

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Finished the stems.  

 

AYC - scratch and laser cut versions

IMG_5084.thumb.jpg.659b3857e234eb6c40838813f8f01320.jpg

 

Cherry and AYc laser version

 

IMG_5087.thumb.jpg.73df632244cf3da7287d29f4c2d1bf46.jpg

 

Since I still have 2 "skeletons"  IMG_5093.jpg.a154519898db6cfb4657aaeeac101ea0.jpgIMG_5092.jpg.009cbe8975d8f7d9d94219a345a079dc.jpg

 

I had an incident with the one bulkhead former when I dropped it.  The stern section snapped off at the joint.  I made a repair by glueing a reinforcement over the joint.  It seems robust enough!

 

IMG_5085.jpg.c70343d252c1d0ce2190a378cdd27482.jpg

On to the building board!

 

 

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I thought that if I could stiffen the bulkheads without putting in spacers that I could get on with the fairing of the hull.  I decided to try out using a pin nailer to attach scrap strips along the edges of the deck level on the bulkheads.

 

IMG_5237.jpeg.e23c962038889671c94077c7d5c61d47.jpeg

 

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They are quite easy to pry up after I'm finished.  They seem to have provided the effect I was looking for so I have started fairing the hull.

 

 

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Very nice...its looking good Doug!!  One thing however...the stern post shouldnt be added at this time.  That is glued on after the planking is completed.  Planking will be much more difficult with it in the way.

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On 12/12/2019 at 10:07 AM, Jorge Diaz O said:

 Hola muy buen trabajo la motosaw de Dremel, ¿cómo se comporta con la vibración, es práctica?

Yes the motosaw works well - there isn’t excessive vibration.  I am quite pleased with it - value for money.

 

Sí, la motosaw funciona bien, no hay vibración excesiva. Estoy bastante satisfecho con esto: relación calidad-precio.

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Hi I've  ordered the motosaw a couple of days ago, as I thought it was good value. From what you've done with it I'm pleased I did. Just waiting for it to arrive. Thankyou. 

Winnie is looking good, great job!!

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Although I'm not getting much time in the shipyard I have been slowly pushing on.  Much of the fairing is done to my standards so I will probably do some more to try to improve my standards a bit!

 

I have run into a "challenge" however.  While fairing the hull was upside down.  I had noticed that bulkhead U needed a bit of shimming up and had started to apply some strips to build it up a bit.  When I right-sided the hull to start running the battens along the top of the gunports I finally noticed that bulkhead U was not fully seated in the BF.  It wasn't properly glued down.  It seemed like a s simple fix so out with the rubber mallet to coax it down a bit.  It looked pretty good so I ran some CA into the seams.  Problem should have been solved.  Somehow - I still haven't quite decided when this fix went off the rails but - the bulkhead, now well glued, slipped upward again.  

 

There is about 1-2 mm slip.  I am now contemplating  which of 2 courses of action to take 1- try to soak the joint with acetone to free the bulkhead again - reset if, and make sure it doesn't slip before the glue sets or 2- leave it alone, fair the hull with there shims in place and there deal with the deck level "bump" .  I don't like 2 very much because of the amount to sanding required on t his annoyingly tough plywood as well as the camber of the deck to get right especially near the edges where the bulkheads interfere with the sanding process.  So I'll try 1 and if I can't get the joint free then I'll try plan 2.  Sigh.

 

Before

IMG_5429.jpeg.9dee7d6e90ded94f0347721112544eaa.jpeg

After

IMG_5430.jpeg.f7faa4407d9c8ac2e0d0bebd45b453b2.jpeg

Deck level

IMG_5450.jpeg.3534063f172964a656301454236dee8d.jpeg

 

IMG_5436.jpeg.3c15fa06765fa8a1adf46ab7050413fa.jpeg

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Great start! There are better grade plywood's, but you won't see the inside and as long as you use a sufficient amount of glue and proper fastners it should not be a problem and you can add blocking where you think you will be needing  the extra support.

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Good news, bad news and good news.

 

Good news - The acetone soaking freed up bulkhead U from the CA glue.  I was able to use the rubber mallet "coaxer" to reset the bulkhead to a better position.  IMG_5456.jpeg.f09b6a5081c54194712789b5aa59e5c9.jpeg

 

Bad news - The coaxing (alright - hammering!) that moved the bulkhead also caused the stem to break off (pretty cleanly along the rabbet strip)

 

IMG_5457.jpeg.2a4b19ae56c7bda9ce087eed60d4ca0d.jpeg

 

Good news - With the stem temporarily removed it was a fine time to improve the fairing of the bow formers since it was much easier to get good angles on it. (if I were to do it again I would consider whether the stem could be left off the hull until the fairing was complete).

 

Furthermore since Jack's carvings had arrived I had a chance to check the fit.  I needed a fair bit of additional sanding to get the figurehead to seat properly.  It was much easier to accomplish with the stem separate from the hull!  

IMG_5458.jpeg.4c395d26677eb185c4fd817abb4d1c1a.jpeg

Definitely the mis-aligned bulkhead turned out to be a silver lining  problem.

 

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Now I have run into some difficulty and would benefit from advice!

 

I'll preface my problem with a reminder that I had decided to try to scratch build.  To me that meant milling my own wood and using Chuck's plans to cut out all the pieces rather that using the lasercut components.  I did purchase the chapter 1 laser cut material as a reference.  So far I have used it only to compare my scratch bits with the precision ones.  (aside : as I look at quarter gallery description in Chuck's build log and the more advanced builds in this group I'm questioning my hubris at attempting this - oh well)

 

To the stern.

 

I slapped it together with the hope that things would lie just right.  A quick visual inspection showed that ST-A on the port side was a little low but maybe that didn't matter (I've subsequently fixed that).

IMG_5691.thumb.jpeg.7d7aeb3ff04fa43aa41305284c2d99db.jpegIMG_5693.jpeg.48a2bff5c2509180a314678c5f8a7d4d.jpeg

 I printed the stern frame guide to use as a visual check on the stern uprights - printed on clear acetate so I could put it on the outer surface.

IMG_5739.thumb.jpeg.0ddf51d4cbfaa9abcc6733b02a567116.jpeg

Things didn't look too good!

Printed again on paper so I could glue it to be inside surface for an easier view.

 

IMG_5742.jpeg.32398a28bf488f3abe3d91c98ef124e3.jpeg

 

The middle three uprights I could coax into alignment with the draft quite easily but the outer one are very rigid and not able to be coaxed with pressure.  (BTW this image is before I fixed ST-A(port))

 

I figured I was going to have to remove ST-CandD from both port and starboard, change the angles of the slots in bulkheads 28&29 and iterate until I got a better visual.

 

However before starting that I thought to try the stern window guides to see how well they fit.  They weren't bad so I I tried the upper sills.  Here I had another disappointment.

IMG_5751.jpeg.3a47f4674298d5f0b13e8bc683dbed38.jpegIMG_5751.jpeg.3a47f4674298d5f0b13e8bc683dbed38.jpeg

 

IMG_5751.jpeg.3a47f4674298d5f0b13e8bc683dbed38.jpeg

 

Using the laser cut sills to check it appears the the port side fit nicely but the outer two on the starboard side don't. As Chuck describes in the chapter 1 notes the guides will fall out if the sills need a bit of tweaking. When I see how far out the starboard ST-C&D upright is I'm a a loss for what I should do to try to salvage what's here.

 

Advice gratefully accepted!

 

 

 

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You actually solved the problem.  You are correct.  The angles should all be adjusted so they will match the plan.  But remember, those framing pieces for the top and bottom of the windows will need some pretty severe beveling on the outside windows.  Trying to use them as spacers without the bevels will really screw up the angles of the stern frames.  That is why those window spacers are so important.  And they should be made from wood.  Use a thin wood sheets so they wont flex when you use them as spacers.

 

with those spacers in position and no sills at all,  try tour template again and see how the stern frames look.  If you need to adjust them,   Then you can donso at that time.

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