Lindberg B17 'nose art edition' 1:64 by Popeye the Sailor - finished

[popeye the sailor]

they must be removable.....I have some pictures that have them.   could also be that these are refurbed aircraft,  as in the case of the Nine o Nine,  and they were made for them.  I think of the waist position as the mid ship..........where I was referring to is back by the rudder.   I have no windows for this position.  I can live with the absence of glass at the waist gunner position,  but I'm thinking of doing something at the tail.  I really think there should be glass back there.  just a small bit of progress of late.....

 

thanks OC........I still have a bit of a cough,  but I'm feeling much better.  I did some checking on the decals,  and from what I've seen,  they are still processing the order.  shot off an email to see what the problem is.........I made this order on the 9th of this month   thanks for the likes gents........hopefully I'll have more to show later.

[Kevin]

another build of yours to follow, sorry i am not keeping upto date

[mtaylor]

Ah.. the tail gunner position?  Right at the aft end?  Yes, there would be glass there.

[lmagna]

I agree with Mark. I don't remember ever seeing the tail gunner position with open windows. 

 

Almost all, if not all of the B17 E and F models had waist gun windows that had to be opened in order to deploy and use the guns. Again, like Huey's you very seldom see them closed in combat pictures. (Actually we took them off of the Huey's) The later G models had a different gun mount allowing the windows to be closed as the guns could also be trained through a central pivot point where the barrel exited the window. These later planes also had staggered waist windows with the lead edge of the left window trailing the tail edge of the right. This allowed the gunners more freedom of movement without bumping into each other. These aircraft would always have the waist gun windows in place as removing them or opening them was not required.

[popeye the sailor]

experimenting with clear cello to fill in those windows is proving to be a bust..........if I bend it enough,  a white stress line develops   perhaps it's due to the thickness.........I have different thicknesses of it....I'll try some thinner stuff    I have plenty of time.........trouble in decal land.........I emailed them and they replied that the sheet I really need is out of stock     they are not sure when they will get them in........so,  I decided on a different sheet and am awaiting a reply about it.   in all,  I will get a sheet of the detail decals and a sheet of the letters and numbers.  as for the nose art and main markings,  I looked into mega hobby and found that they had a sheet with the nose art and stuff.  again.......I stuck with the 1:72 scale decals,  since the model is 1:64 scale.  comparing the supplied decals with the sheet from the B 25 {which is 1:48},  and I saw that 1:48 would be too large.  I wish they would have sent me an email telling me this........it's been a good couple of weeks since I ordered them.  anyway......I think I got this straightened out now 

 

   I wondered about the stabilizer wing and how it would center,  without tabs to help it do that.   it fit into the slot better than I thought it would.......I was expecting paint scraping and a mess.  I ended up painting the deice strip on the rudder freehand.......couldn't get the masking tape to conform to the curves.  I need to do some very minor touch ups {luckily}.

the yellow tips are painted on the props.......

I think I mentioned the wing span of this model earlier in the log.   sitting on the table,  it looks huge  

the figures are somewhat hard to see.......still need to install the windshield {it's in two pieces}.

installed the props into the cowls......

that is the belly placement....that is what I came up with.  for the top gunner,  there is a bar that separates the machine guns that the figure is attached to.  there is no bar........and no platform for the figure to stand on inside the fuselage.  no too much thought process here..........doya think?!/!?!  still have plenty of time to figure {pun} it out    I need to paint the deice panels on the wings........that should be the last of the major paint.

 

I refuse to change my mind.......kinda hard as I've laid out the paint for the scheme  

Edited October 25, 2019 by popeye the sailor

[mtaylor]

Hmm... windows for the aft gunner....  Look for some cello packaging (bubble packs) that are stiff and not too thin.  Warm them... depending on the plastic, hot water might work to bend them to fit the shape of your window openings.  I did that once probably <mumble, mumble> years ago on a car model I broke the windshield on.  

[CDW]

One way to accomplish the task of creating a canopy for the rear gunner is a technique called heat plunging.

As shown in the illustration, carve a wooden plug to fit the inside of your tail gunner position, then clamp a thin piece of clear plastic sheet in a frame as per the illustration. Heat up the plastic with a heat gun until it's soft and pliable, then quickly plunge your wooden mold into the plastic sheet and you will have created a window that will fit perfectly into your tail gunner's position. Aircraft modelers have been using this technique for many years to create plastic canopies for their models.

 

[mtaylor]

Interesting CDW, sort of like vacuum forming without the vacuum.  

[CDW]

8 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Interesting CDW, sort of like vacuum forming without the vacuum.  

Yes, because most people don't own a vacuform machine. I have bought used ones before, but the vacuum pump is their Achilles heel. It's almost always dead on arrival. It's not terribly difficult to build your own vacuform platform, but most of us never get around to it thinking it's a bridge too far for one measly little project (but then there's a 2nd, a 3rd, or even more times when it could have been used).

[popeye the sailor]

I never gave heat a thought........I've not heard of this technique,  but it sounds like something neat to try.  thanks gents!    I also have a small scale P 47 thunderbolt that needs a canopy

[Javlin]

Denis this is what I use for up to 1/4" most HS have it in stock even Hobby Lobby I think.The plane is coming along Nicely

 

https://www.amazon.com/Micro-Kristal-Klear-Microscale-Industries/dp/B0006O029E

Edited October 27, 2019 by Javlin

[Javlin]

It's a little late just noticed they had de-icer boots on the wings also I think up into the the middle of the engines if memory serves me right. Kevin

 

No windows at the waist gunner's position.

Edited October 27, 2019 by Javlin

[Roger Pellett]

A shop vacuum works fine for vacuum forming.  No need for a dedicated vacuum pump.

 

Roger

[popeye the sailor]

I've never tried vacuum forming........I am looking at other ways to form the cello.  I may try it.....good idea though with the vacuum......thanks Roger    I have been embroiled in the decal fiasco,  since I found out that 1001 models didn't have the key decal sheet I need.  I have since put an order in at Mega Hobby for them......they are or have been shipped.  just to get the transaction completed at 1001 models,  I substituted the out of stock sheet,  with a sheet of call letters and numbers in 1:72 scale.  of course,  I may have confused the issue by telling them why I needed the decals........it seemed to drag it out a bit further.  anyway.......last night I answered the last {hopefully} email between us.........the decal sheets should be on their way within a day or two.  

 

I was looking through the selection of decals at Mega Hobby last night,  and I saw something that grabbed me.  it gave me the urge to get another B 17 model and build it   it's called the Wulf Hound and belonged to the 303rd bomb group.  I can get the decals for her,  which is super........and there is quite a bit of info.

Wulfe Hound

303rd Air Expeditionary Group - Wikipedia

note the missing belly gun turret............it was damaged when it belly landed in the field,  and the Germans never restored it.

[CDW]

Hey you know if you use your 40% off coupon at Hobby Lobby, you can get the 1:48 Revell  B-17G for around $20. That's a super kit, but large.

[popeye the sailor]

I never keep track of that ........thankfully,  we have folks there who will do it automatically at checkout    they are a great place to buy kits!  I've told them that they ought to expand their selection because they are about the only place to buy them {that I'm aware of}.  as a matter of fact.........I believe I can get these decals at 1:48!   dunno........I may try...........I may try {hands shaking as I write this!}   see what ya done now.......ya gave me the jitters!       this little update is about size.........

 

 

while thumbing through pictures yesterday,  notice a mistake I made on the wings.   I added the deice panels on the wings...I tossed around the new revelation,  and decided to go for it.  I discovered that the black walkways don't go over the nacelles like I have them...they are blank.  there is also a short black dash aft of the vents along the fuselage line.  I really should have done it with the airbrush,  but I used a brush....had to spend a bit more time doing touch ups.  I also tried to find what color the lights on the wings were........I was thinking the port and starboard mentality,  as with ships,  but I ended up dabbing the cavities with flat yellow paint just to stay safe.   I don't have them in place at this time though...this is where I left off.  what I ended up with are these.........

now to get the fuselage together and get this show on the road  

 

I received the decals from mega hobby yesterday.......very quickly,  I might add.   they will be my new 'go to' place from now on!    now these are just the call letters and the nose art,  but that's OK........I will be using the insignias from the kit sheet for that part of the markings.  I'm sure that some are wondering why I'm using 1:72 scale decals,  since the kit is 1:64.  it's very hard to find decals in this scale.......I haven't seen any yet in my searches....I've made a few.  the only choices I had are 1:72 and 1:48........1:72 being closest to the scale.  price was no object........these cost close to $20.00.

the above choice is 'sweet 'n lovely........this nose art thing......so easy to fall into a binge with this plane!  there are so many available....1:72 and 1:48    it has the swastikas too.......note the Collin's foundation notation.  to lay it up next to the supplied decal sheet,  there is a noticeable difference...

...but image to image,  they will look fine used in combination

I can use the supplied tail emblem if needed {not the red border ones since I painted the rudder}.........likely use the 1:64 emblems for the wings and use the other scale for the rudder....sounds logical    the sheets I'm getting from 1001 will be used as back up......I'm thinking ahead here....I'm sure there will be other aircraft down the road that will need markings {I tend to go 'off road' a lot}.   the prop emblems and a few other markings will be needed anyway,  so I will complete that transaction.  now........had I gone the other way and ordered the 1:48 decals,  I would be going back to the drawing board........they are way too large.

the nose art alone tells the story........note the window cut outs on the Nine o Nine decal........there is no film flash on it either.......it is exact!  amazing looking decals!   

[popeye the sailor]

I was looking at the booklet that the decals came in........it's a nice touch.  it gives paint and decal placement information.  I know that I didn't run the gray up to the stabilizer wings......nor the underside of the cowls....I can live with that.  but,  what I didn't know was that the black walkways on the wings....are actually blue.  I'm not going to change it now.......nor try to ascertain what color blue it is.  I also think that the 'sweet 'n lovely' is a beautiful aircraft.  I did have to chuckle though.........side view shows the waste gunner's windows so you can see through the fuselage....but in the overhead view,  you see that these windows are actually diagonal of one another.  leave it to me to see something like that?!?! 

sweet 'n lovely is B 17F

[CDW]

An incredible B-17 story...it's worth watching but beware, the graphics are poor. The story more than makes up for that.

 

 

[popeye the sailor]

excellent find!   enjoyable.......didn't find the graphics bad at all    kinda had that South Park feel    I'm sure that there are many stories around........in war,  I'm sure that there was a dash of compassion  

 

i have the tail windows in place now.......not sure what I'm going to do with the tail's front window.  hoping I can use the window maker without filling the tail with it.  that's what happened when I tried doing the side windows...they were simply too large to do.  I'm still working on the French connection......selected another sheet of decals and am waiting to see when it is in route.   the waste gunner's position is another small dilemma,  with the gunner standing there and no placement for the gun.  I may have to invent a pair of tripods for them.  as soon as I can get that done,  I can put the halves together and get the show on the road 

 

we'll call it "B 17 - the musical"   

[popeye the sailor]

along with the light house,  I got a little more done on the Nine o Nine.  for the waste gunner,  I'll simply glue the gunners in place and cement the guns resting on the sill and in their hands...make it quick 'n easy.  I glued the windshield in......it comes in two pieces.  makes it easy with the way the cockpit is situated.   .....and of course,  the tail windows are in place.  looks a little odd since the plastic is a bit thick and the window rests on the inner surface........gives them an indented look.

the top gunner position is the oddest task of them all........that little tab you see is all there is.  I'll get to that tomorrow.......along with my goof up.  as I mentioned earlier,  the stabilizer wings don't have any means of anchor,  once set into the fuselage and the two halves joined.  to arrest it,  I came up with the idea to tape it in position,  split the halves and cement it in place.   little did I realize that it would ooze out when I put the two halves together for it to dry.  now I have a bit of a mess to clean up 

[popeye the sailor]

still attempting to woo the admiral,  on the Wolfe Hound thing........but I keep getting shot down  ...........*fingertips rhythmically tapping the table*......... what can I flank {flak}her with??????????????

 

anyway..........I'm still doing a little here and there as I wait for the decals from across the pond.  I'm thinking their tracking process doesn't work.......it never moves from the order processing stage.   it will be a month tomorrow since I ordered them.    I'm hoping to see them in the mail box today........yea,  I'm a hopeless optimist that they will come though.  what this has proven to me,  after reading some of their reviews,  is that they may be good on domestic shipments,  but internationally,  they blow major goose eggs    hey.......I'm still laughing.........

 

one thing I did that isn't common on the plane, was to black out the sides of the nose glass,  leaving just the bombardier's window.  I figured that it was like putting blinders on a horse  

I came up with a solution for the top gunners pod.  I assembled the two guns together so they would go through the two slots.   gluing them in place,  I modified the figure......he appears to be holding what I considered the trigger.  I trimmed it back so a 'hook' was left,  and hung him on the bar that joins the two guns together.

I'm hoping the jot of cement isn't noticeable.  once this is dry enough,  I can join the two fuselage halves together.  then I think decals will be in order for the next phase.  I guess if I don't have the other decals by that time,  I'll just finish without them.  I just wish there was the foresight to have added them on the original decal sheet. 

[Old Collingwood]

Have you tried  - "I will cook every day till eternity"  at the admiral?

 

OC.

[popeye the sailor]

I really don't want to sign a pact with the devil    not that she's a devil,  but it would take away from my modeling time  

[lmagna]

Is "eternity" the same as a life sentence?

[popeye the sailor]

could be.........but only if your stood up in a corner after your stuffed   

[popeye the sailor]

oh bother!  I have an MIA to report!  the fuselage is now glued together.....not as pain free,  as I would have liked.  I'm sure some have scratched their heads,  wonder why I chose to build her this way......1/2 at a time.  I've hardly built my planes the way I've seen some do........assemble and paint the interior,  assemble the fuselage and wings together,  and then paint the exterior.  I'm terrible at plugging up all the open areas to do it that way........I always suffer some degree of over spray.  bu no matter how I assembled the fuselage.......it wouldn't have saved me.   the top gunner came loose in the turret,  and before I could save him,  fell into the plane  

     I tried to coax him out through one of the other openings,  but he's trapped inside the bulkheads,  and can't escape.  my only option to save him,  will be to try and snag the gun that he's attached to,  and pull it back out through the gun slot.  my luck.......I just checked the crew roster........and the gunner's last name is Houdini

[lmagna]

Simple matter. Just tell him that if he does not return to his station you will court martial him. Dereliction of duty under combat conditions can carry the death sentence.

Can you open the bomb bay doors and get him out that way? They should be relatively easy to re-install.

Edited November 14, 2019 by lmagna

[popeye the sailor]

I wish it was that easy......the bomb bay doors are molded to the fuselage........would have to cut them out     not only that,  there would be the floor closing the bay off.....he would be trapped.  I warned him of court martial,  but he simply replied 'melt me!' .  there is a silver lining to this story however........he is finally back at his post     I used really thin wire,  turning the fuselage upside down and rattling the gun into view,  it was hooked and pulled over to the slot.  from there, tweezers were used to get him back into position.  I used Ca to cement him in place......I hope it won't mar the clear turret.   in the initial efforts to free the free fallen gunner,  the other gun came loose.......I'll have to put it back in place after I know the gunner is firmly back in place.

gluing the halves together...........and after the gunner is back in place.......

.....I almost forgot........   I've about hit the end of my patients concerning the order of those other decals.   as the admiral and I discussed......I would rather see this order go to it's full fruition,  as I think cancelling the order might be a ordeal getting my money back into my account.  I was ready to order from Mega Hobby,  but I was told to hold off until I've dealt with the order already in progress.  I sent them an email yesterday,  asking if there was any additional problems and that this order is over a month old.  when will it be sent to me.   the reply I got is that it was mailed yesterday......wow!

    as can be seen,  I still have some touching up to do,  so I have time to wait.

Edited November 15, 2019 by popeye the sailor

[Javlin]

Try these guys next time stateside and very reliable/fast.  http://spruebrothers.com/?doing_wp_cron=1536358635.7091009616851806640625

[CDW]

Just now, Javlin said:

Try these guys next time stateside and very reliable/fast.  http://spruebrothers.com/?doing_wp_cron=1536358635.7091009616851806640625

Less than 30 minutes from Denis is Scale Hobbyist, one of the best online hobby shops on the planet, in Nashua New Hampshire. They are mail order only though. I order from them all the time and the products get here to me in Florida F-A-S-T. Great prices, great selection, excellent customer service.