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Colonial Sloop Providence by KenW - 1:48 - Finished


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I added some boards to the outside of the hull.  The Providence was originally called the Katy.  In the early 1700s, it was converted into a boat able to run the smuggled goods and protect itself.  It was described as “a sloop, all black boat low and long...with crane irons on the quarters for oars.”  I don’t yet know what ‘crane irons’ are, but I’ll find out.  In late 1775 , the Katy was renamed to the Providence and taken into the Continental Navy.  At that time the sides were “scraped”.  This is the boat in the Holman painting at the beginning of this blog. The replica of the Providence that was built in 1976 for the 200th anniversary celebrations had its upper hull painted blue and red.  I decided that this is probably not how the boat appeared in 1777; so I painted the new boards black.

 

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Also, there is a model in the Rhode Island Historical Society that was designed and built in 1926, the 150th anniversary of American independence.  Notice where the anchor cables go below the main deck.  Guys at the club tell me that this method was not seen before 1850.  So no one has an accurate model of the Providence.  However, due to my inexperience, I will be careful with any changes I make.  The model at the RIHS is below.

 

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Edited by KenW

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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I created more ‘deck furniture’ on the main deck.  I had previously made a windlass using a mini kit that Chuck Passaro created for his Cheerful model.  I had to make some alterations since the windlass was too big for the Providence’s deck.  So I cut off the larger of the pieces (the one that had three holes) and did the same on a similar piece from a second kit.  Then I filed a bit to make sure everything looked like it belonged.  Next, I made a small smoke stack.  And lastly, I made the mast fiferail, which included somewhat fancy aft posts.  And, I also made the necessary belaying pins.

 

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Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Fantastic work Ken

 

I knew of the two references from British sources regarding the black paint on the Providence from my own research, but was not aware of any reference to her being scraped and the existence of crane irons. Could you share your reference?

 

Crane Irons I think could either refer to the "U or Y" shaped mounts used for either Swivel guns or in some cases oars. Either one a possibility in the Providence. I would have thought that the Katy/Providence would have had wooden mounts or holes for oars though.

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Thanks Lou.  There are no real plans of the Providence.  Both the plans for the replica built for the 200th anniversary, and the model made for the 150th anniversary were built according to "a typical Rhode Island sloop".   So holes and/or wooden mounts are certainly possible.  I'm currently having trouble making a small boat to hang off the stern.  The boat must not too much larger that the width of the stern.  I'm looking at kits from Model Expo and bending basswood planks to the 'U' shape required for the ribs is, so far, impossible.  I may just have the mounting blocks installed but say that the boat is ashore. 

I'll have to look at my various books and articles, but the mention that the boat was scraped about the time it was admitted into the Continental Navy was made twice.  I'll get back to you.

Any help you can offer is welcome.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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You might also look into the Master Korabel boats.   They're 1:72 but might work if modified.  I've not had any luck building the Model Expo ones, but the Master Korabel worked for me.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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10 hours ago, KenW said:

I'm currently having trouble making a small boat to hang off the stern.

 

For my modified kit representation of the Providence, I intended using one of these kits:

https://cafmodel.com/collections/boat-395

I was thinking that the the proper size would be about 100mm in 1/48th would create a ships boat of about 16'. 

 

The Cutter kit is 130mm long and if you remove about 30 mm from the widest point of the building jig included in the model and eliminate the matching ribs you will end up with the proper sized ships boat. (If you consider 16' the proper size like I did.) Just an example, as I did not/do not have the tools you have to make one from scratch. 

 

Mark's suggestion of using the Master Korabel boat kits may also work but I am not sure how the beam  dimensions  will work out when converted to 1/48th. Unfortunately Master Korabel never came out with a 1/48th version of their Avos ships boat. I wish they had. 

 

Like Mark I would also recommend against trying to build/use the Model Expo boats. They are in my opinion a waste of money and almost impossible sources for truly nice looking small boats. The CAF and Master Korabel kits are both VERY delicate models to build, but if done carefully can be made quite nicely. I think Superglue is the preferred medium for these small kits. 

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Thanks Mark and Lou. 

 

As far as my tools, I built the Providence using a jeweler's saw.  The only power tool I have is a Dremel.

 

I determined the size of a boat, which 'hangs' from the stern, by the width of the stern. 

A boat of 100 mm is about right.  I'd have to get a cafmodel 130 mm kit and see what I can do to shorten it.  But I like the idea, and I'll order one now.

 

The Master Korabel boats are currently out of stock.  I've requested a notification when they become available.

 

Thanks for the info and ideas.

 

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Ken,

 

    Stopping by after a long hiatus.  This is really looking great!!!  :cheers:

 

    As I approach retirement, I plan to dust off my PROVIDENCE and get back to work on it.  I will DEFINITELY be looking at your build log from time to time as a reference,

Chuck Seiler
San Diego Ship Modelers Guild
Nautical Research Guild

 
Current Build:: Colonial Schooner SULTANA (scratch from Model Expo Plans), Hanseatic Cog Wutender Hund, John Smith Shallop
Completed:  Missouri Riverboat FAR WEST (1876) Scratch, 1776 Gunboat PHILADELPHIA (Scratch 1/4 scale-Model Shipways plans)

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Ken,

 

I just looked in on your build for the first time.  Very nice!

 

Regarding crane irons-  In this context, I believe that the phrase “crane irons on the quarters for oars” refers to U shaped brackets either bolted to the sides of the hull or set into holes atop the rail to store oars when not in use.  

 

There are numerous contemporary drawings of small sailing vessels with oars suspended outboard from the quarters with rope slings but Katy apparently had iron brackets for this

 

Roger

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Thanks Roger.

Thanks to Chuck and all the 'likes'.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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I finished the guns and their carriages.  The barrels were blackened using the same method as I used on my Independence.  Soak the barrels in acetone, then muriatic acid (15 minutes each) and then place them in JAX Blackener for 1-2 minutes.  I was going to leave the quoin handles natural because I was happy with the way they came out (nice and small).  But they looked very white and, really, they would have been painted the same color as the carriages, so I relented.  I hope to mount and rig them in the next few days.

 

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Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Very nice. You did a wonderful job so far. I like the colour of the wood and the paintscheme as well.

Current Build:

HM Brig Badger 1/48 from Caldercraft plans

Le Coureur 1/48 by CAF


Completed Build:

Armed Virginia Sloop 1/48 by Model Shipways / Gallery
HM Cutter Sherbourne 1/64 by Caldercraft / Gallery

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Thanks Bob.  And thanks to "capt. Hook" and to all the 'likes'.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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  • 2 weeks later...

The guns and their carriages have been mounted along with their breach lines.  The aft two guns will not have a problem with the partition to the officer’s quarters since it will be removed and stowed below the water line whenever the boat “clears for action”.  I made the other holder for the cannon balls along the aft hatch using the same technique as on the forward hatch.

 

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Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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  • 1 month later...

I decided to take time off from the main hull and work on a small boat which will hang off the stern.  One of the officers in my club did a Tech Session at one of our meetings on making small boats using a method he called Lifts.  I’ve heard it called “bread-n-butter”.  I use a plan for a 16 foot long boat from the ‘Anatomy of the Ship’ series - the HMS Diana.  The lifts correspond (in this case) to the three horizontal lines in chart # 1 and #2.  The curved lines in #3 are the same lines.  So I carved out three sections using the lines in chart #3.  My three lifts are below the plans.  I used basswood and I made the boat in two halves because the keel-stern-stem piece will be cut seperately.  The lifts are sanded to get the shape of the boat using chart #1.  

 

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Then the center of the two upper lifts is cut out leaving about 1/8-3/16 thick pieces. The bottom piece is left solid since it will be covered with the floorboards.

 

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Next the inside of the top lifts were smoothed out.  Then the three lifts of each half were glued together and more sanding was done.  I didn’t use any power tools.  Power tools scare me.

 

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Once the bulwarks are about 1/16th or less, the centerpiece and the two halves can be glued together.  More sanding is done to make the boat “look right”.  I then added pieces of 1/32 x 1/32 basswood to look like ribs.  I also added 1/32/ x /1/8 for the risings which will hold the thwarts and 1/32 x 3/16 floorboards.

 

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My lifts didn’t fit together very well.  The outside joins weren’t smooth so I used gello and painted the outside of the hull white.  The thwarts and aft seats were added and gratings, as well as the breasthook and knees.  I also cut out a ‘cap rail’ and painted it black.  

 

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I still have to add a rudder, I think, and oar locks.  It’s hard for me to imagine that this is a 15+ foot boat.  I used a measuring tape on my shipyard floor, and this little boat was actually pretty big.

 

Edited by KenW

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Great work. That is going to look really nice hanging on the stern.

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Thanks Lou. 

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Next up is to finally rig the guns.  I just need to add the out-haul lines.  I’m using 3/32 Syren blocks and .008 Syren line.  I also made the coils from the out-haul line.  Coiling them was pretty easy: just twist them the way you would to coil a garden hose.  I use diluted white glue to hold the coil onto the deck.  I’m only rigging one or two guns per day since I think that’s enough.  So far I completed the port side guns.

 

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So, during my spare time I made the rudder.  I used the Syren kit for the pintles and gudgeons (rudder hinges).  The shaft is extra long and will be shortened once the quarter deck is made.  These photos were taken with my iPhone - not the best quality.

 

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Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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  • 2 weeks later...

This is my favorite holiday.  Starting tomorrow the days begin getting longer again.  Can summer be far away?

I rigged the rest of the guns.  I also added channels and more belaying pin racks.  The belaying pins I made are not glued in place yet.  I’m going to remove them so they don’t get hurt.  I also made a rudder and tiller for the ship’s boat and added oarlocks.  I’m now ready to start on the quarter deck.

 

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Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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  • 4 weeks later...

I’m working on the quarter deck and the stern.  They are dependent on each other so I’m doing them concurrently.  The quarter deck has another hatch and stairway; both were made.  The stairs were made from 1/32 thick strips.  The quarter deck is made from two layers of 1/16 sheets.  The stern windows are 1/32 and the stern is two layers of 1/32 sheets.  The stairs are in there.

 

Reb9TlLDEs9oS17EKyIO1JhK7QA6yjwctfVl8ohyKNwCQClyeEtdmIL0zJo4BggCq3H0Iur0zABBzyc3rskxuhRVkM9ZxyCYrHSDC7YQf7gTCuRwx_HlE8IM5peEwc0HRuls7dzL                PyynSE6CLMPu5SzEhRA-NyYj7x9MhwkOTfuqZ8fnhs73cTf2QXPjTpEZK7gr5l_6o_J_1OluzBDqC-RYkb4RmyyaW9Zvgo5x7I_fvOSOyCMJstW8f0VL2sDRpPtbJvL3uR5EPrxm

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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January 23, 2021

 

A few months ago, I said I’d look into the color scheme that I’m using versus what the actual sloop “really” looked like.  That turns out to be not an easy chore.  Here’s what I’ve found out:

The earliest reference I’ve found was an article in , “Sea History”, Fall, 1978.  The article was titled, “The Ships of John Paul Jones” by William Gilkerson.  It refers to a “Brittish intelligence report describing rebel warships in 1775”.  At that time the boat was known as the Katy and was , “A sloop, all black, low and long …”.  

The boat was taken into the Continental Navy around the first of January, 1776, and renamed the Providence.  In May command was given to John Paul Jones.  After his first cruise he had the boat  “heaved down” which meant it was hauled over on her side to expose her bottom.  The hull was scraped clean below the water line, repainted, caulked, tarred and painted.  This was done to both sides. 

The Holman painting that I included in my first post was painted in 1777.  His painting clearly shows the boat with tan sides around the gun ports.  However, Holman never actually saw the sloop.  He did talk to sailors (officers? Men?) but no one knows what information he received.

So I guessed that at the same time Jones had the hull scrapped, he had the sides around the gun ports scraped and painted tan so it would look more like a navy ship. I’m not going to paint the dark blue and red stripes as seen in my second posting, since I want to have as much of the hull painted black as possible.  No way to know what the boat really looked like, of course, but since I’m the captain, I get to decide for the model.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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I have read much the same about the color being all black with no figurehead. There was a second reference, also British that also refers to her being black.

My thinking on the matter was that she was either all black, or that possibly the gun port strip of each side was possibly scrapped, making it a "lighter" black with the taffrail and rub rail being retained in the original black. I was also of the mind that the inner bulwarks were possibly not black but could have been green or brown.

 

There was very little money in the Continental navy to deal much with items like paint and prettiness. It is even clear that ships that operated together frequently were not painted to a common theme like British ships normally were. It was really a ragtag fleet if there ever was one.

 

Your build is progressing beautifully Ken. 

Edited by lmagna

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Lou:  Thanks for your reply.

I never thought of painting the inner balwarks green.  I remember when I visited the USS Constitution that it's balwarks were green.  I just followed my previous models and painted them red.  Too late now.

I also know that the Continental Union ensign, which usually had red and white strips with a Union Jack in the canton, had several different strip patterns.  Some with red, white and blue strips and a few had red and green strips.  An early admiral liked the different colors since it helped him identify which ships were which.  Sounds wild.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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I have always wondered why people chose to paint the inside bulwarks of Continental Navy ships the same as British or French ships. It is colorful and for those countries certainly almost a mandate as far as I know. But the Continental Navy ships were mostly purchased merchant ships like the Providence or privateers. Relatively few were built from the keel up as warships. 

 

For flags, you have a number of choices I think. The Providence when sailing as the Katy for Rhode Island flew the state flag or possibly the New England Naval Ensign that had the red white and blue stripes you refer to, but has a pine tree in the field. It is also possible that she could have flown the Washington's Cruiser Flag at this time.  When she was sold to the Continental Congress in December 1775 it is probable that she adopted the Continental Grand Union flag with the Union jack and 13 stripes that had been adopted in October. At the time of the Nassau raid in March of 1776, there is almost no question that she was flying the Grand union flag as part of Hopkins fleet, but there is still a chance that she may have carried the "Don't Tread On Me" flag as well, as that flag was the Marine flag of the time. I don't know what the policy was when carrying a large contingent of marines at the time. 

 

The red white and blue flag you mention is normally referred to as the Ensign of the Brig Lexington, As far as I know the only painting of the Providence flying the Lexington flag was in a painting by John Mecray of the episode between the Providence and the Cerberus in 1776. Mecray is a modern artist and I am not certain what reference he used for the painting, or if it is accurate. I know of no other reference where the Providence would be flying that flag. I don't know of any flag with green stripes so can't even have a comment let alone an opinion on that flag. There is also the argument that these were early times in the US and almost anything could be possible, after all John Paul Jones raised the "Serapis Ensign" over the captured Serapis and it doesn't match any of the flags we are talking about here. 

post-1153-0-88609700-1434686225_thumb.jpg

Edited by lmagna

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Lou:  I agree about the color of the balwarks.  The Constitution has green on the interior balwarks and white on the lower gun deck.  Even the HMS Victory has white on its gun deck.

I've gone to several web sites about the flags of the revolution.  The Grand Union flag with red and green stripes was apparently a variation.  The red, white and blue is listed as a variant also.  And the Holman painting has the Providence with red, white and blue strips.  All my models are revolutionary ships.  And my last has the New England pine tree in the canton with red, white and blue strips.  I intend to use the same flag that is in the Holman painting.

Again, evidence is lacking and, at times, contradictory.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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Unfortunately the Holman painting was also done by a person who had never seen the ship in question. One of the reasons for so many "Interpretations" of the US naval Ensign of the time was that the design was primarily relayed from one point in the world to another by written or even verbal description. Arthur Lee, Franklin, and Adams in France at the time all wrote descriptions that stated the flag had red, white, and blue stripes even though this pattern was never advocated by the Continental Congress.

 

That is one of the nice things, (And frustrating) about building the Providence. There is so little surviving documentation about her that almost any interpretation is acceptable. She is certainly high on Chapelle's list of ship models that should not be built.

 

Just for my own edification, could you PM me a link on the Grand Union flag with red and green stripes? Like I said before, I am totally ignorant of this version. Never mind, I think I found a reference of those colors being used in 1776 by Esek Hopkins for the Delaware Bay Fleet. It is a little confusing in that it says that there is reference also of the red, white, and blue, AND the red and whit stripes being used as well.:unsure::blink:

Edited by lmagna

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Lou:  Great talking with you.  The site with the Grand Union flag in question is here, "http://www.loeser.us/flags/revolution.html"

This site also has the correct history of the Betsy Ross flag. 

Anyway, making the model has been fun, but I'll only use reliable plans in the future.

Cheers.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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One more thing.  Apparently the Continental Congress, in around 1778, specified that the Continental flag should have 13 strips and 13 stars in a blue canton.  Note that the number of points of the stars was not mentioned; nor was the color of the strips.  A proper designation of a flag was made in around 1783, but even here the arrangement of the stars was not specified and the plan was for an additional star for each state as well as an additional stripe for each state.  After 15 states, the number of stripes was changed to always be 13 with a star for each state.

Ken

 

NO PIRACY 4 ME! (SUPPORTING CHUCKS' IDEA)

 

Current Build:  

Washington 1776 Galley

Pilot Boat Mary of Norfolk

Completed Builds:

Continental Boat Providence   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Continental Ship Independence  (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Rattlesnake   (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build)

Armed Virginia Sloop  (from Completed Gallery)

Fair American (from Completed Gallery)  (from MSW Build Log)

 

MemberShip Model Society of New Jersey

                  Nautical Research Guild

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2 hours ago, KenW said:

Anyway, making the model has been fun, but I'll only use reliable plans in the future.

??????????? Are you referring to the plans being the ones developed by John F. Millar and company for the creation of the present day Providence, (The ones you used) or the total lack of plans for the original 1775 ship?

 

It is clear that the research on proper Continental Ensigns is pretty much as complicated as the research on the vessels. Definitely more extensive than I have done up to this date. 

 

I can't remember the exact date I read somewhere but, I think that the number of stars remained fixed at fifteen for a number of years and it was not until the early 1800s when it was decided to add a star for each state and keep the thirteen stripes for the original  states. 

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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