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USS Boston spar dimensions and sails


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13 hours ago, Sailinganthony1812 said:

I am trying to find out what the sails and spar dimensions are for the frigate boston 

 

There is an appendix to the Naval Documents Related to the United States Wars with the Barbary Powers which has a listing as of 1804.  There would be alterations by varius skippers but these will be fairly accurate.

 

Knox, Dudley, ed. 1945. Register of Officer Personnel United States Navy and Marine Corps and Ships’ Data 1801–1807. Naval Documents Related to the United States Wars with the Barbary Powers. U.S. Government Printing Office. http://www.ibiblio.org/anrs/docs/E/E3/nd_barbarywars_register_shipdata.pdf.
 
Boston.png.0eedba056bee50e43508021514f70885.png
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Sailing Anthony,

Curious about your question re. U.S. Frigate BOSTON (1798) - Are you planning on building a model of her and if so, what information have you been able to turn up other than the well-documented stbd. side elevation of her in Chapelle's HASN and the 1945 copy of this draft provided in the Knox book?

 

Let me note here that the U.S.S. prefix did not come into use anywhere until well after the War of 1812 and more probably in the 1820's. That's just one of my pet peeves with early USN Naval History terminology, etc. All U.S. naval vessels were called "U.S. Frigate" or U.S. Sloop of War", etc. 

 

I spent quite a bit of time researching (or trying to) this particular ship in the early 2000's only to run into a brick wall when it comes to actual information on record. Besides the Knox book notations from Tripp's post above (which I also have) I think there may be some scantlings taken off of her by Fox in his papers (I also have those packed away). I know from the head historian of the USS CONSTITUTION Museum that there was virtually nothing written down that exists today, certainly with their archives although BOSTON was the follow on frigate to be built in Hartt's shipyard once CONSTITUTION had been launched.

 

This particular small U.S. frigate has always appeared to me to have quite an attractive potential for a very nice model. Any info you could provide would be appreciated.

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i knew about the U.S.F and the USS I was going to bed and I couldn't really edit the post again, but anyway I hit a wall to with this subject, but I have been looking at plans of the Boston and the New York, I been thinking on going to a trade school about wooden shipbuilding school and I am still trying to find the right vessel that fits with me, and I have notes in a Journal that I have.

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Well, glad to know that I'm not the only one who thinks BOSTON might be worthy of some study, etc.! I have a digital folder with CAD files I've drawn up, but I haven't "dusted them off" in quite a few years. S. Duffy (USS Frolick on the forum) and I were talking about this research this morning - he wondered if I was still interested in pursuing anything - we'll have to see about that!

 

Good luck, and I'll keep up with your various posts from time to time!

 

Hank

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The SI was impressed with Boston to use the lines on the cover of their warship plans catalog.   Elegant lines.  I bought the plans and worked the up for framing.

R&S is 24.25"   Using the scantling in Steele - the sided thickness of the frames leaves very little actual space - mostly enough for air circulation.  As built, leaving off any planking to show the frames would display a solid wall of timber - with narrow gaps.  This ship would work for frame display if every other bend was omitted  and the frames were 12.125".   Doing this saves on wood, too!

 

I would use Steele as primary, and  AOTS Conny and AOTS Essex  to supplement.    If there is no ship specific data and you make an informed guess,  who has the bones to denigrate your choices?   I would not let the lack of contract data stop me from building Boston.  That there are many more ahead her in my queue, has her a low priority in my shipyard.

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Jaager,

 

You must have been reading my mind 8 or 10 years back!!! I also came up with the 24 1/4" R/S on the framing, as I was originally planning a POF model. However, I think with this knowledge "in the bank", I would choose to make it a POB with an rough elliptical opening on one side to show the actual frames. Somewhere along the center part of the hull where the frames are all identical to save time & effort but yet expose the interior. I also have the same ref. materials and one cannot do without Steele's "Bible" to lay out the basics!!!

 

Her scantlings are documented in Josiah Fox Papers (#773) to a certain extent and would aid the modeler in sizing & location of gunports, etc. I have just now looked at my BOSTON computer folder for the 1st time in years - I have already created a dozen or so CAD files on various parts of this ship, and all are "in progress" so to speak. I think I last worked on these back in 2011 or thereabouts. "USS FROLICK" and I were in a weekly conversational mode at the time regarding research, etc. One thing we tended to agree about is that BOSTON and ESSEX were very similar in size/tonnage, etc. as well as both being constructed roughly during the same time period. We came to the conclusion that both yards would have consulted each other in some form or another in order to get their respective ships in the water and while ESSEX is fully documented, she could provide some general layout suggestions for recreating BOSTON which lacks any deck plan or interior layout elevations.

 

I've got to be careful not to let this resurgence of interest cloud my already full plate of models once I have a space for resuming work!!!

 

Hank

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I seem to have that EXACT same spreadsheet....but with many more ships listed! But, I can't recall when I came up with that or who may have created it.

 

Thanks for sharing - verifies the info I have on file.

 

USS FROLICK - I do indeed have that book, as well - but, as you mentioned, not a lot of usable info for the modeler.

 

Hank

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32 minutes ago, Hank said:

I seem to have that EXACT same spreadsheet....but with many more ships listed! But, I can't recall when I came up with that or who may have created it.

 

Thanks for sharing - verifies the info I have on file.

 

USS FROLICK - I do indeed have that book, as well - but, as you mentioned, not a lot of usable info for the modeler.

 

Hank

 

Not sure where I got it from either - i just hid the columns for the other ships to make it less crowded.  By any chance did you create the spreadsheet?  May also have been Ed.

 

 

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For what it's worth, the spreadsheet shows created in 2003 by edby at Bayer. 

 

Either way it is a wonderful resource!  I really need to spend some time at the PEM once I retire (which may be sooner rather than later).

 

Carry on, Gents.  I love the details you both have!!!

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OK, I own up to it - I was at Bayer in 2003 and took an existing Excel spreadsheet and rewrote it for the Fox documentation and data entries. I thought I had done that, but it's been so long ago that I had forgotten about it. I actually took the file to my mobile home down east to work on during evening hours with paper copies of the Fox notes that I had printed out. The spreadsheet was intended to put all the early U. S. N. naval ship information in one place for easy access. Well, how about that????

 

Thanks Wayne for pointing that out - I can only verify your above comments by looking at my original spreadsheet file Properties and concur that your findings are close (actually eybdd @ Bayer Pharmacuticals) - I was in the CAD group there for 18 years. I can't recall who it was that gave me the already created Excel file to use as a template.

 

Note - even today I find it easier to copy an existing Excel file rather than trying to set up from scratch an entirely new spreadsheet - just too much work and too little spreadsheet experience.

 

Hank

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On 11/19/2019 at 8:47 AM, Hank said:

I was originally planning a POF model. However, I think with this knowledge "in the bank", I would choose to make it a POB with an rough elliptical opening on one side to show the actual frames

After some thought,  rather than going Hahn style with every other bend omitted,  the spaces are a bit wide, something new may be worth a try.  I am thinking that Naval timber framing style look attractive for this ship.   From a distance, it would look like Navy Board framing.   I think actual Navy Board framing is not appropriate for ships built after the 1719 Establishments were issued.  Never mind that it is very wasteful of timber stock.  The three main timbers are just too long and too curved not to be inefficient in the utilization of wood.  The old boys apparently cut their frames from solid sheets.  Nice that they could get Boxwood and Pear in those dimensions.

 

777783351_a4framingstyles.jpg.d6a5a1be9f2faea4cb23aaa01c4938a7.jpg

 

The first on the right is solid, 2nd is 19th C.  2/3 room  1/3 space,  3rd  is Naval timber framing .  4th is Navy Board.

 

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Wayne,

 

I guess if I did go forward with BOSTON (at a later date) I could envision something along those lines. I laid in a very nice stash of boxwood prior to 2010 as well as some pear, white holly, and a couple other nice modeling hardwoods. I guess if we're going to continue a hull discussion it should be over on the hull forum, etc.

 

So, you're from Norfolk? I was just there for a DD reunion in Sept. and was aboard BB-64 for a morning (not enough time, but did get some research done). Did enjoy the waterfront tour, downtown, Nauticus, and the Chrysler Museum. Had some good food at the seafood restaurant on the pier at Va. Beach!!!

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Hank,

Yup, Norfolk.  I am at the edge of Little Creek NAB (or joint something or other).  the bark Eagle visits from time to time,  Susan Constant was here once.   Lots of good restaurants here.  You seem to have missed the star over at Newport News: The Mariner's'Museum.   A seminar over in the framing forum might be interesting.   You are not too far from Hickory -  once upon a time a center for quality furniture mfg.   I would guess there are nearby hardwood mills.  Not Boxwood, Pear or Holly - but a good price on Maple and Black Cherry and maybe Honey Locust?

 

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