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French Frigate by Barbossa - 1/64 - POB based on La Vénus (ANCRE) - semi-scratch


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Thanks Patrick and all members showing interest.

I'll post some pics showing Venus' present status, in a few days

 

Also happy X-mas and many shipbuildingfun for 2020 for all MSW-staff & members !

 

About Fluffy ( "Pluis" in Dutch) : she's up to her 17th birthday ( in 2020 )

We had two cats, the eldest passed away this year ( 18 years ).

" A cat has servants" :  I agree 100 %

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  • 2 weeks later...

I forgot to mention in my previous post that the blue lines above the gunports indicate the position of the channels.

 

Now a word about the stern : to obtain a proper fit, I had to reduce the camber by < 2 mm. This was the unavoidable consequence of my doubts regarding the correct heigt of the gundeck. In my opinion this is a minor setback and it is be hardly noticeable 

 

I also applied the first plank of the second planking and it is a crucial one as it dictates the position of all other planks that are to follow

Meanwhile some plankbending using what we may call " the chuck-method" ( including ironing )

 

 

 

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Thanks Patrick and a thanks for all the likes.

 

As from the start of this project it was always the intention to paint the model, for two reasons 

1)Lack of patience and talent

2) Quality wood ( boxwood,...) is as good as unavailable

 

First pics are some experiments : I'd like to insert black or darkgrey paper between the planks in the gunport area.

Following pics : a careful start ( wood = ramin )

Last pic I took from the additional monography ( Franco Fissore ) raised some questions and I submitted this color scheme to  French MSW-colleagues ( forum actif 5500 ) and Mr. G. Delacroix himself was so kind to answer that the color scheme was an artist's view and a bit a questionable one as everything under the waterline should be coppered.

 

In addition French frigates don't seem to have this distinctive black belt ( wales ) you often see on their English counterparts. On the contrary : the black painted area seem to continue till the waterline ( La Renommée, La Belle Poule 1765,... if painted of course )

Even more : The Boudriot Monography shows the front side ( towards the bow ) the first gunport included in black color. This is convenient as the bow area describes funny curves ( see point 1 in this post 😅 ) . But this is the path I intend to follow.

 

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hello,

Still busy with the planking process but I'm enjoying this.

Looking at the pics, you will notice the planks are slightly separated. I'll come to this later on. Also, everything under the waterline is to be covered by coppertiles which I purchased through Victory-Amati. So don't you worry about me using different types of wood in this area.

Must admit -as far as I'm trying to finishing the hull with the best of my abilities and according to the plans-  the hull describes funny, dare I say awkward curves, especially when I reach the bow area.

But as I mentioned, the "flaws" will be covered with copper, so no harm done so far.

 

Another 5 pics are to follow this post

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  • 1 month later...

Hello,

another small update (part 1 )

Tried to imitate the pattern of the bow, at least the part above the waterline.

Although the bow is to be painted in black, still I'd like to distinguish the different components the bow was made of.

 

Please, pay no attention to different types of wood under the waterline : this area is to be coppered anayway

 

The rest of the pics show it's present status.

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Thanks Patrick and thanks everybody for the likes and showing interest.

 

Just removed the reinforcements on top of the bulkheads. It's already a different sight !

Added other reinforcements to secure the inner structure. This will be covered by forecastle and quarterdeck and might help to obtain the correct camber.

 

Inner bulkheads are to receive 1x4 mm strips, making the preparations ( = clean up the mess ) 

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  • 4 weeks later...

hello,

 

an update just to introduce you to a new friend of mine : a (brand new) hand drill tool and  this new purchase already proved to be very useful

 

Now move on to another topic : The difference between french frigates and their british counterparts ( at least in the 18th century )

While executing some research on the internet I noticed the absence of a distinctive wale belt (most french frigates)

Beneath the gunports, the wale area seems to continue unto the waterline

Furthermore, towards the bow area, the firt gunport is also covered and separated from the second one by some kind of strange pattern ( see pics).

Things to bear in my mind.

 

Now finished working on the inner (visible) bulwarks and fored 4 holes for rigiing the guns in a far future. This area is to be painted in red.

Also painted the outside bulwarks ( AV golden yellow 70.948 ), you may also notice the fored holes. I gues these are to receive a kind of bolts. ( see pics )

 

As mentioned in previous posts, planks were a bit separated : this allowed me to insert grey paper.

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A useful new friend.

 

I think : 
The hooks on the inside where the rigging of the cannons is attached   go through the hull.
Those are the (4)bolts / nuts that you see on the outside.

 

And, 

Great work.

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Hi Patrick,

 

Thanks for looking in and resolving this mistery.

Although this may sound logic, I was wondering why we notice this feature ( mostly ) on french vessels only such as :

La Belle Polue (1765 ), L'Hermione, also on many pics I found on the internet related to La Venus....

 

Thank you, all fine people,  for the likes and showing interest

 

 

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10 hours ago, Barbossa said:

Although this may sound logic, I was wondering why we notice this feature ( mostly ) on french vessels only such as :

La Belle Polue (1765 ), L'Hermione, also on many pics I found on the internet related to La Venus....

 

 

If you look at a cross-section of any of those, you'll see that the hull planking gets "thicker" as it comes up the hull.  There is a point where the planking gets thinner from just below the gun ports up to the bulwarks.  I think you can see this in the drawing from Belle Poule.  To my knowledge this something only the French did.

 

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Many thanks for your input Mark

But as often, one answer brings on another question, can we assume that french ships in general were built lighter than their british opponents ?

 

Back to my previous post related to the strange pattern between 1st and second gunport

My first pic : what tell my plans ?

I deviated a bit and made one piece ( second pic). My painting skills are average so I went for this option as it allowed me to cover one single surface decently in black color.

Second : Instead of a flat line on the side, i went for a small curve, which made the hole thing a bit more elegant.

The lines suggest different planks. Yes one might call this cheating but I can live with it.

 

Finished inserting grey strips between yellow painted planks.( one side) I'm happy with the result as this shifts the focus from the yellow to the separation of the planks which was my intention.

With some blue above and more black beneath the gunports + decent copper plates... must say I have some expectations reagerding the color scheme.

 

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7 hours ago, Barbossa said:

Many thanks for your input Mark

But as often, one answer brings on another question, can we assume that french ships in general were built lighter than their british opponents ?

 

That's really a good question and I have no answer.  Popular reading materials say the French were rubbish, but to me the reality was that they weren't maintained, they didn't have trained crews or captain's due to the purges of the French Revolution.   I think both English and French ships had their strengths and their weaknesses.

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The ships were quite good as the RN borrowed many designs and had French prizes in service. As Mark says it was the crews that let them down. Too many officers killed off due to the Revolution and that they didn't get much sea time because of the British blockade.

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Many thanks Edward, I appreciate the historical input 

 

Thus a brief retrospective update : why the yellow painting ?

I notice there is much a do about the use ( dare I say upgrade? ) of boxwood in kits.

In addition, I have no clue about the availability of this item ( I mean boxwood strips 1x4 mm or 1x5mm )in the UK but I'm afraid it seems rather hard to find in the old continent.

 

I had a stock of yellow wood of which I didn't even know if the coloring was natural, that I used in my previous build.

But :

1) I wanted something different

2) It's obvious in the pic : compared to a 1x4 mm plank the yellow planks seem a bit out of scale

3) also compared to my stock of lime the cut was anything but clean

 

 

 

 

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Update related to the wales and so :

 

Added a belt made of extra 0,5 x 4mm walnut strips + sanding with grit 400 sanding paper.

As highlighted you may notice some space between the belt and the piece that covers the bow section + first gunport (see previous posts).

It allowed me a nice transition between the yellow gunport area and the black belt as I used 0,5x2mm pre-painted strips to cover this.

The black paint was purchased in a DIY-store ( Hobbyrama for the curious, but meanwhile the local shop went out of business for reasons not related to Covid-19  ). So no AV-paints involved here.

Although totally (from historical point of view) erroneous I personally find the approach with the white paint below the wales quite appealing.

I know most of the French ships had everything painted in black instead of white (see last pic) in this area.

I'll have to make my mind up about the matter.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Thank you very much, Johann

If I were to reach your level of shipbuilding (which I seriously doubt), for me this would be a long way to go, I'm afraid.

 

Also thanks for all the likes : this may sound funny but now matter how this project will evolve, building a proper hull without the usual kit support is already an achievement for me.

 

Finished the wales at both sides but as I haven't made my mind up about what color of paint I should apply starting from the wales to the waterline :

- white = aesthetical very nice

or

-black = historical more correct according to most French ships,

 

I decided to make some drafts to prepare the quarterdeck galleries and as I got along I found out the difference between the 2-dimensional plans and the 3D reality. However everything fits (until further notice, off course). As there's some curves and different shapes involved here : therefore the windows are slightly wider on the upper side compared to the under side.

However, these are only drafts.

 

Before I forget : the gaps between the blue painted planks  are made in anticipation for some decoration strips

 

 

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

Hi,

 

Among the stern& quarterdeckgalleries, windows are a challenging detail at which I have been struggling quite a bit, lately

Tried different approaches and attemps ( see first pic), but last pic shows my best shot so far and until now.

Although the appearance seems rather a prison bar than a window frame .

 

The material is light card that received several coats of dilluted PVA-glue for reasons of strength. This was a necessary preacaution as you may notice in the penultimate photo : one arm was slightly warped while sanding.

 

I'd like to give it another try by using smaller card strips but I'm anxious to avoid any warping.

All feedback is welcome.

 

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