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Bruma

Cutty Sark lift interfering with topmast shrouds?

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Hello everyone! 

I'm new in this wonderful community and I'm not a native English speaker, so sorry for all the mistakes I will surely do. 

I'm building a 1/96 Revell Cutty Sark and it is my firs ship model, so I have many things to learn.
 

I was thinking about to post the WIP, but I was a bit intimidated from the quality of the job presented here. 

This evening I finished the topmast shrouds on the main mast and I suddenly noticed an issue. 

Where are the main lift lines supposed to run?

They seem to interfere with the topmast shroud! In order to guarantee at least a small degree of freedom for swinging the yards they should pass trough the shrouds but this option seems to me a little bit strange...

Here a picture of the actual situation, with a temporary lift line and block to better understand the situation.

49154225878_139b53cbcb_k.thumb.jpg.d99b9a6f3cc5b8dfb5d017caa827eecb.jpg

 

And here a picture of the Cutty Sark (after the last restoration/rebuild) in which they seem touch the shrouds on the bow side. 
Even in this case, they will be surely bent as soon as the yards are swing... 

 

cuttySarkLift.thumb.jpg.23a1ec38c1cb731cd48c986f45dabe5e.jpg

Any help would be really appreciateted, right now I'm stuck with this dilemma... 


Thank you to everyone who want to help!  

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The yards in the photo are without sails in a lowered position, I think. When raised and sails bent there is more clearance with the shrouds.

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Thank you both for taking the time to answer, I really appreciate!

@JerseyCity Frankie: so basically you say that it is normal than in neutral position of the arm (line port to starboard) the lift hits the front topmast shrouds? 

That is strange! In my mind this wonderfull machines are perfect in all the aspect and it sound just a strange technical solution! 

And the worst is that as soon as they orient the arms, one side gets even worst! The topmast yard of clipper as the Cutty Sark can be turned more than 45 degrees! 

Good to know! This means that I'm not completly wrong! 

I will move the eyebolts for the lift bloks as far forward as possible, even if I a little bit sad that they will not be in the correct position. 

Campbell plans shows them in between the two masts.

 

druxey: sorry Sir, my fault. I was talking about the topmast yard, which is, in my understanding, a fixed yard. 

 

Edited by Bruma

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Well, I agree on both: Cutty Sark is well documented, and I would not move the eyebolts too much. But still, I cannot understand, where the mistake is...
Here the cap band details from Longridge:

 

588752601_capband.jpg.aba3a81387241538f73fb1f4b5a26406.jpg

It is clear that the blocks are in between the two masts.
And here the detail of the Campbell's plan:

 

campbell.thumb.jpg.5c71fbe46f7aef825fb966f462b59eb2.jpg

They agree on that point. In this detail it is also clear that the foremost topmast shrouds is parallel to the mast, exactly centered to it, which is were they are supposed to be.

Now, on my model, I tried to do the same, here is the result:

 

model.thumb.jpg.d07b7e1e161ef4f0fcba6a03c5bda427.jpg

First shroud centered and parallel to the mast, temporary lift line passing in between the two masts, main yard squared and still it is interfering! 

 

This is driving me crazy...
And the worst thing is that I wold like to present the model with sail an in navigation, with wind from the side, so I will need to rotate the main yard at almost 45 degrees, and the problem will be more and more evident...

 

Again thank you for the time you dedicate to my mental care... 

Edited by Bruma

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If you look at the rigging problem from the other direction -running the lifts directly from the cap to the yardarms directly THROUGH the topmast shrouds you will get twice as much chafe since this guarantees chafe port AND Starboard. Plus the lifts would block the movement of the crew trying to climb the topmast shrouds

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Here’s a shot I found of this typical mistake. The modeler led the lifts directly in a straight line from the cap to the yardarms. You can see the problems that would manifest when actually sailing: crew have difficulty climbing rigging, chafe occurs Port & Starboard the moment the ship starts to pitch or roll or you brace the yards to any degree. You see models rigged like this all the time, even in good museum collections.

7F0027A2-96E0-489E-B653-6242A9E21BB4.jpegIn this case we can blame the kit manufacturer for a lot of the problems here. I’m pretty sure this was one of those “cross section” models. The deadeyes on the top are too far forward of the mast.

Edited by JerseyCity Frankie

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Bruma..it appears that the design was tight for the lifts, as the yard is swung for and aft.  Here is an old image of the Ferreira (AKA Cutty Sark), after her conversion due to an accident...but, notice the lifts with chafing guards...probably leather or similar material.  Indicative of a chafing issue.  All I can suggest is, work with what you have.  As I mentioned in a similar post to you....I just ran the lift between the first and second shrouds....knowing, this was a compromise I was willing to accept....also knowing this slight error would get deluded among the complexity of additional rigging.

 

Rob

309549_4664685528272_534888660_n.jpg

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Hello again and sorry for the delay in answering.
Thank you both for your great contribution in solving this issue,
Now I know that I'm not completely wrong with my build and, as a plus, I know a little bit more this wonderful ship.
I think I will probably run the lifts outside the shrouds.
Surely this small detail will be lost when looking at the entire ship and the forest of spars and lines, but I know that if I made a mistake, my eyes will keep going there.
That's why I'am so thankful to you for helping me to sort it out!
 

Edited by Bruma

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On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2019 at 4:06 PM, Bruma said:

Hello again and sorry for the delay in answering.
Thank you both for your great contribution in solving this issue,
Now I know that I'm not completely wrong with my build and, as a plus, I know a little bit more this wonderful ship.
I think I will probably run the lifts outside the shrouds.
Surely this small detail will be lost when looking at the entire ship and the forest of spars and lines, but I know that if I made a mistake, my eyes will keep going there.
That's why I'am so thankful to you for helping me to sort it out!
 

 

Well you're welcome... not sure I helped you *sort it all out*.  But glad I could give input.  Here is what I did with the lifts...though not accurate.  And some other images to show my efforts.

 

Rob

537448_10200260147039490_1723786719_n.jpg

14008_10200330937769214_1300483297_n.jpg

561924_10200330935369154_1218632848_n.jpg

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