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The smooth flow of building went awry in Oct 2020 - so there is a restart on the log starting here  - RESTART AFTER PROBLEMS

 

 

Well even though I am still not in my new house yet, I could no longer resist the urge to have a tinker with the kit.

All looks lovely .

My first step is always to do work on the keel and bulkhead ply sections.  

A major part of the work for me is to arrange the fitting for the pedestal stand fastenings that I prefer.    See Pickle example HERE

 

Immediately first problem - I am not used to mdf and the keel is only 3mm thick so drilling holes to take mounting bolts or threaded rod is going to be a bit of a challenge. So a bit of practice on scrap seems in order.

And selecting the position for those mounting points is also troubling me .

So a pause till tomorrow - i want to dry fit the basic hull to see how it comes together and  suitable places where I can strengthen the keel against the drill points/ I just wonder that in this case i may have to give up on pedestals

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Thanks Vane.

I can actually claim to be sort of first on the team - I do Chris' website so I have been party to lots of details as she developed.

It has been so frustrating  watching the kits being sold from the site not to actually to be able to do anything with my kit since I am  "between homes"

I had sort of had ambitions to be the first to start a log but you have done a brilliant start there - not jealous or anything of course !!🤢

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So - a quick dry fit of the base keel and BHs to see how it goes.

Rather nice - good snug fit and I really like the way the thing MDF goes together - not so "scrapey" as ply.

Did notice that the edges of some of the holding boards are looking a teeny bit "scuffed" so clearly need to take care, I dont think the smaller bits are going to be as resilient in mdf as in ply.

IMG_1637a.thumb.jpg.ae62b04467f5e4efeccc29792ddd21e2.jpgBut main purpose of dry fit was  to asses how i want to proceed with mounting.

I decided not a chance of doing my normal approach of drilling a hole through part of the keel - the keel will break  if i drill any useful size.

So only route is to do some early solid reinforcement of both side of the areas I want the mounting to be and then almost cut the keel in half with a 3mm drill.  So perhap a 1mm guide hole through the keel.

 

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Fun day thinking about of planning work on the keel etc before assembly.  Rabbets, stand fixing, stern "slimming"

Normally would be looking at any rabbet work that may be needed but in this case i think that Chris has covered the bases.

Stand fixing - I think i will go with my normal method but will have to modify it because the keel mdf is only 3mm.

 

But first where will the fixings go - a bit of photoshopping gave me this sort of  position

1331759462_trialstand.thumb.jpg.85c13a65a59d66e2b33fad171c1e2c78.jpg

position and that ties in with fixing points on the keel like this
1906119761_firsttrystand.thumb.jpg.5589626efdc64ad007e38b24ea94416d.jpg

and a little bit of adjustment gives me a practical seeming position950725151_keelwork.thumb.jpg.2b155398b270f21e85ec2360393f17f6.jpg

with the keel being strengthened both side between  BHs 5 & 6  and 10 & 11 to take vertical 3mm bolts or rod  through the keel.

 

The pic above also shows the curve of the bearding line - i usually do first planking to  a bit beyond that faired in to the keel - just makes it easier to fair the second planking.

  I am having a little think about slimming the keel down to the the stern post - its a place where I often make a mess and i want to try a few practice  experiments on scrap on some different methods to overcome my handicap !

 

There is a limited amount i can do in my temporary home but perhaps a bit of BH shaping by blade not sanding.

 

OR perhaps just build the cutter !!!

Nice little mini project and if I mess it up I actually normally dont fit boats anyway !

IMG_1627.thumb.JPG.486f2b615ba0938e290ea40c2320fc09.JPG

Edited by SpyGlass
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On 1/18/2020 at 2:40 PM, SpyGlass said:

Well even though I am still not in my new house yet, I could no longer resist the urge to have a tinker with the kit.

All looks lovely .

My first step is always to do work on the keel and bulkhead ply sections.  

A major part of the work for me is to arrange the fitting for the pedestal stand fastenings that I prefer.    See Pickle example HERE

 

Immediately first problem - I am not used to mdf and the keel is only 3mm thick so drilling holes to take mounting bolts or threaded rod is going to be a bit of a challenge. So a bit of practice on scrap seems in order.

And selecting the position for those mounting points is also troubling me .

So a pause till tomorrow - i want to dry fit the basic hull to see how it comes together and  suitable places where I can strengthen the keel against the drill points/ I just wonder that in this case i may have to give up on pedestals

I’m having this issue with Lady Nelson and will have it again with Speedy when she arrives.  Have you found a solution, nothing I’ve found is both thin AND long enough other than brass rod?

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I have always used brass rod because if you do have an accident it is soft enough to bend and take a bit of the impact. Used to use brass bolts which are fine but less flexible in length adustment. 

I did think of using a fine gauge screw but discarded the idea dont like using a screw with a point of any kind into the hull its less accurate and adjustable and damages the hull if you want to remove and replace.

Could possibly could try a thinner say 2mm brass rod but seems a little too delicate for the job.

SOOOO

I am going to go with my normal 3mm   brass rod - see my other logs for details,

 

BUT that will mean esentially cutting the keel mdf in half  ( or rather thirds with two cuts !!) so a fair chunk of strengthening to be done.

 

I have dry built a fair chunk of the hull and i am encouraged that the additional pieces that Chris has designed  will help with holding the hull in place.

 

So my present plan is to

  • drill pilot holes of 1mm through the stand rod positions ( remembering to allow for the keel not being at right angles to the vertical)
  • No need to drill fixing holes for nuts  - I think these can sit on the sub deck - maybe washered.  - they will need epoxying or something to hold them in positions to allow the rod to be taken in and out.
  • Add strengthening 3mm ply or mdf offcuts between the relevant bulkheads  though i do have some 5mm ply but thats probably overkill !
  • Build the hull from there to say about to the point that all the deck beams  are in place and all is stiff and then drill the 3mm holes from the pilots.
  • Fix the nuts and proceed !!

 

As for Lady Nelson - how far have you progressed with the build ?

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On 1/25/2020 at 10:43 AM, SpyGlass said:

I have always used brass rod because if you do have an accident it is soft enough to bend and take a bit of the impact. Used to use brass bolts which are fine but less flexible in length adustment. 

I did think of using a fine gauge screw but discarded the idea dont like using a screw with a point of any kind into the hull its less accurate and adjustable and damages the hull if you want to remove and replace.

Could possibly could try a thinner say 2mm brass rod but seems a little too delicate for the job.

SOOOO

I am going to go with my normal 3mm   brass rod - see my other logs for details,

 

BUT that will mean esentially cutting the keel mdf in half  ( or rather thirds with two cuts !!) so a fair chunk of strengthening to be done.

 

I have dry built a fair chunk of the hull and i am encouraged that the additional pieces that Chris has designed  will help with holding the hull in place.

 

So my present plan is to

  • drill pilot holes of 1mm through the stand rod positions ( remembering to allow for the keel not being at right angles to the vertical)
  • No need to drill fixing holes for nuts  - I think these can sit on the sub deck - maybe washered.  - they will need epoxying or something to hold them in positions to allow the rod to be taken in and out.
  • Add strengthening 3mm ply or mdf offcuts between the relevant bulkheads  though i do have some 5mm ply but thats probably overkill !
  • Build the hull from there to say about to the point that all the deck beams  are in place and all is stiff and then drill the 3mm holes from the pilots.
  • Fix the nuts and proceed !!

 

As for Lady Nelson - how far have you progressed with the build ?

Just finished first planking, like you I always plan for mounting at the very beginning. I’ve already drilled two 1.5mm holes in the keel, they need to go past the keel board into the MDF. This was tricky on the Fair American being open framed, but it is 5mm and stronger cherry wood. I also add reinforcement either side of the hole with Scrap MDF pieces, meaning my holes aren’t on bulkheads. I’ve used threaded machine screws on all my other models but I can’t find one small enough for this 3mm hull. I’ve settled on brass rod as well. I’ll have to find a way to secure tightly to the mounting board so that it never comes out, like never. So far I haven’t lost one. Once my ships are on the board they need to stay there. If they fall they fall together and die together 😂🤣

Edited by glbarlow
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The key is to lock a bolt into the hull so that the rod ( or bolt) can go in amd out as required  - see my pickle logs for details

 I always drill teh keel board and USUALLY forget that one needs to drill the keel strip to match !! at the same time.

TWo things about attachement -

i get or drill pedestals with holes and then you can put a nut in a recesss in teh base board.

BUT if you can get  2 or 3 cms of rod into teh hull and a tight fit of rod into hull it will SIT quite safely just in teh "prongs " without fasteneing

 

I usually drill teh hole fractionally undersize and then "cut a thread" in teh wood using a rounded off threaded rod.

 

I am DYING to do this step but my drill and most of my tools are under tens of cubic metres of furniture in store - soon though

 

Edited by SpyGlass
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  • 4 weeks later...

I couldnt stand it any more watching the other builds streaking ahead !!

So I went out and bought a few basic tools and got the box out - at least I can do the keel work. 

Tried running a 1mm drill through the keel offcut and it seems fine. So I am happy to create two guide holes through the keel for the pedestal stand bolts/rods  -then strengthen the keel  on both sides and later drill them out to 3mm for the actual brass rod. Got some extra length 1mm drill bits arriving  so I can get through the keel in one hit.

1677871697_IMG_16742.thumb.jpg.b8f31ad8b5e1eb11f17b735c706b0fc9.jpg

527779703_IMG_16791.thumb.jpg.48be3ece0f84c95fd4cbb0032445836a.jpg

(Interesting side point this MDF seems to get "grubbier" than ply - my pencil marks smeared badly - must remember when I come to visible parts)

Edited by SpyGlass
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I appear to be conducting an exercise in seeing how much I can put together without glueing anything.

( If I glue  then have an object which will cause a nuisance in the house move)

I am just awaiting the longer drill bits and I will do the mounting position. I will need to "preconstruct" most of the hull because I am not sure that my idea of just placing the pedestal rod nuts on top of the keel MDF will not foul anything or show.

I already  did some plank shaping on my first " trial " put together so I may as well keep doing that because I think that it may be possible to do that while I have the" preconstruct "without gluing the hull because it all goes together so firmly.

And I am making a start in  working through the deck fittings.

 

 

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Well had to acquire a few more tools but its interesting how few one actually needs.

 

1879843889_IMG_16971.thumb.jpg.1f321ea99e71db7414a7f17c3c8d4328.jpg

So since simplicity is being forced on me I thought I would just take things more or less from first principals.

 

There is a lot of discussion about plank and gun port strip  shaping bending.

Looking at Speedy and the materials used it occurred to me that it wasnt a huge problem and some may think its more difficult than it is

So I decided to go and try my old route - just steam over a kettle for strip

IMG_1692.thumb.JPG.fe51b83a40ff07f3eef440e1108d1534.JPG

and 30 mins hot water soak  plus a bit of steam for the ply pieces.

WEAR GLOVES! I only have a few minor scalds!!

But the limewood first planking is a joy to shape using this method.

A few shapes to demo  - each bend only took a minute or less

IMG_1682.thumb.JPG.079c060d4be75561090608fb2bba758d.JPG

IMG_1688.thumb.JPG.124b5cbebf08c71f46e94cf7309b1746.JPGIMG_1690.thumb.JPG.5eb751f6e219553eedc01ca9f1471308.JPG

So that my route for this build

 

For the Gunport strips 30 mins on hot water and a bit of team forrard then "clamped" to the hull . I used rubber bands which are great but I need a few clamps  (pegs) to make it just a bit better - there is a bit of a tendency, as normal, for the port areas to over bend.  

IMG_1686.thumb.JPG.64986b31d0d13309cc27e82d979f4037.JPG

IMG_1694b.thumb.jpg.ebfb317651b2e00f51a2211d60fbb895.jpg

But  no problems seen here so again this is my opted route .

Continue tomorrow when I can buy some clothes pegs and mayyyyyybe some  PVA glue - the Admiral tried but came back with CA  - bless her!

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Just order more M3 brass rod and nuts for teh stands but also a length of M2 just to see if it could do the job.

 Next on the preassembly work list - I always seem to have a litle problem with finishing planking off against the stern post.  And this is tied into the thinning of keel and first planking

But most of these have been larger builds  where I smooth in the first planking into the keel piece and then reduce thickness to the stern like this 

513829676_sternthinningsidec.jpg.c2c28ee6210f5ffa02c30c6b37cfa178.jpg

BUT the area involved on Speedy is very small so I am going to put aside my normal  pre- build work in this area EXCEPT  before fixing the keel to anything I have marked the area to be slimmed on the edge of the keel piece while it can easily be done.

 

IMG_1699.thumb.JPG.a1fb4a2424528d393cc56183dd4e644a.JPG

So what next - I think doing a good bit of off- build Bulkhead fairing.

First step for that I always do is to check if there is an noticeable angle on the laser cut edges - best to have those running with the fairing . There is a bit of laser angle on Speedy but not anywhere near as much as with most kits .

But I will  orientate the BHs anyway and mark the "DO NOT CUT HERE" edges  nearest the centre on the fore and aft bulkheads which get most fairing. My theory is if those edges are intact then you can get away with a bit of over keen fairing on the rest of the BH edge.

1793431232_IMG_17011.thumb.jpg.b3994cdfef7b9ee5e59315241c5ce42f.jpg

 The next step will be to mark on the top of  each the BHs the "fairing angle" as a guide to how much needs to come off.  But that need the BHS to be a bit more firmly fixed  . So rebuild with a few more parts of the structure first.

I would note that I have popped on and off off  the ply false deck about ten times  without breakage so its quite resilient. I do make a point of bending it by quite a bit so it goes on in one movement rather than inching it on with it scraping against teh BHs

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Just another quick dry reassembly  - mainly to get the false deck on  - which gives a great indication of the amount of initial fairing to do.

This level of assembly is ok to mark indications but not quite stiff enough to actually carve some rough fairing - but you can see how the deck gives a good guide.

1259837185_IMG_17041.thumb.jpg.f428cfb3f44b4e3c153986706cbeccc3.jpg

BEWARE though that is the line of fairing - at that deck level - each BH will have slightly different angles up its height  - you cant carve the whole BH to that angle.

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On the subject of brass rod for fixing pedestal stands.

First with this size build 2mm rod will probably suffice - it quite sturdy stuff and took some force to bend it.

So I tried a few experiments 

IMG_1707.JPG.0ad1724dd00cd3c03e1441e159e38e37.JPG

 

- it seemed fine fitted through  a bit of 3mm MDF scrap.

 

But I wasnt prepared for the features of MDF - first the MDF split as it was being drilled - almost as if it had grain

IMG_1710.JPG.0ce7e236281f39a0f09c03b07c4ca8b2.JPG

- and again  when I rather roughly cut off a section - again a split.

IMG_1711.JPG.e7d6e4e125bd18b1c8d658cb71b5c78d.JPG

Not a real problem but well to be aware off an unexpected characteristic of MDF.

Anyway i shall fit for 2mm mounts - i can alwaya drill out for 3mm later if I think it needs it

 

Additionally when fairing - MDF cuts well enough but not quite as crisply as ply maybe but sanding   is  er- interesting - the surface goes sort of wooly and again its harder to get a crisp  sanding cut.  I think I will post an info request.

 

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Synchronisation in action - I got notice that my new house is ready today just as I finished the "dry preparation" phase.

So I can pack her up for  a few weeks and resume with a proper bench and my tools again. 

Here is a pic of the full drybuild - done mainly to check the pedestal positions  - in elegant pink plastic  here.

I think they both need to go a10mm or so aft. 

Gunport strips need a touch more shaping.

So pause for a few weeks !

DryBUILD.jpg.9d7599201e671fffb3dc7c432006881d.jpg

Edited by SpyGlass
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3 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

I got notice that my new house is ready today

Congrats! We just moved into our new house in January -- getting closer to the point where we can say "mostly settled."

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Posted (edited)

I found myself unable to actually put her away .!

So I was going to try and get a bit further shaping the patterns or fillers - especially since I was rather intrigued by those at the stern . Found I could not  do any real shaping of those with just a dry fit.

Ran  the guide 1mm drill holes through the keel for the threaded rod just a slight angle need to allow for the keel not being parallel  to the water line ( No I didnt miss the guideline lines - I was working from those on the the other side !)

1619527671_drillkeel.thumb.jpg.500876b1f927f72ad0e82969018e1e25.jpg

So I have got the glue out  -good old UK Evostick PVA Wood Glue - Interior because it just has a bit faster drying time .

Strengthening pieces either side of the drill holes using scrap from the keel sheet.

1737441313_strengthendrillkeel.thumb.jpg.736945e5110d131f146f06e8c37f9387.jpg

And back to the manual from the start - but with the great confidence because the dry fit showed such great fit of parts.

I am only going to do the lightest of preshaping of the first two Bulkheads   because my grip isnt good at moment but of course I recommend that most people should.  I will be getting out my trust old Mini Craft for most of the BH shaping. So to work !

Edited by SpyGlass
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Posted (edited)

When I was sure the strengthening pieces were fully set I chamfered them a bit  at the bottom to clear the planking.

If I had my act better together I could have set them to be additional garboard support - but i didnt think of that till afterwards -perhaps the forrard one may serve

Then  I drilled out the guide holes to 2mm (Hand drill - perhaps my hand shake is getting better !)

And ran in some trial 2mm rod

IMG_1759.thumb.JPG.53338b98e1744274343738149de667ca.JPG

I had been racking my brains about how to secure the upper part of the brass rods (though probably just using rod as "prongs" from  pedestals would be enough)

But - quite by chance - I realised that I had positioned the stand points under hatches!

IMG_1758.thumb.JPG.c202db390837e3e1d09cec65ba1fd296.JPG

IMG_1761.thumb.JPG.f00cd1ef54b3bd932d44c03d7dc92b4b.JPGIMG_1760.thumb.JPG.a1aaa90c77217203735818183c0ae73b.JPG

So if I simply bring the rods through the lower decks then I can get at the tops of the rods to attach nuts or or....

31530324_IMG_17641.thumb.JPG.7ca7b477223ce4895d2a19043b4e9c4a.JPG

 

And I think that I can conceal them, once fixed and set ,with either gratings or a slight mod of the ladders
 

Edited by SpyGlass
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Posted (edited)

I couldnt  stop !!! Glued the main BHs in place.

Just discovered that they have improved standard Evo stick PVA  - it sets off really very quickly compared to the older stuff.

I glued up all the BHs and then went back to make sure they were all absolutely aligned - and I couldnt move them!!

Had to do an urgent clean of the pedestal holes and couldnt even wipe of the surplus as well as I would have liked - Doesnt matter at this stage but later may have to go to the exterior stuff which is supposed to be a bit slower

Its just as well that Speedys bits fit so well. !!

And then since I had got that far I added and glued the stem formers and the lower deck parts as well which will help align and  just to be on the safe side on alignment have temp fitted the main deck. 

(Incidentally thats about the 5th time I have had it on and off - no signs of breakage yet.)

273992883_IMG_17691.thumb.jpg.fc5f56f4b6f225389248124e10f85f90.jpg

You will note my recycling use of scrap and rubber bands in the absence of my main tool kit with clamps!

And the cutting knife blade  insert as the first thing to hand to keep the deck from sticking at the stem where there is a fair amount of glue.

Edited by SpyGlass
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Posted (edited)

Just trying to get as much done as I can with limited resources and without making her too big to pack easily for the move.

 

Added all but Bulkheads but16 and then the long deck beams.

runner.thumb.jpg.9aef9d3c7bd1237fbe48043972ec2571.jpg

Ingenious attempt to use BH 16 and those "delicate" stern frames to make sure 15 was correctly positioned - It worked well - EXCEPT  of course I broke one !

Shouldnt have bothered anyway since I used - yet again- a temporary deck fit to make sure all lined up which would have done perfectly well without the ingenuity.

 

However I offer a tip on the stern frames - save the sheet. Then if you break one you have a perfect template to glue.

 Just cut away the template around the join area to make  sure you get no glue in the wrong place. 

Then in the bits go - touch of glue - flat clamp both halves and bingo!

1051588718_startrep.thumb.JPG.96043b975fbda9ec01fb7bf763bdabfe.JPGrepair.thumb.JPG.99c2d37162112317297e7b3bcaabc162.JPG

Edited by SpyGlass
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Posted (edited)

The house moves on so had to make a start on packing her up - then just HAD to do one last bit!

1287185799_boxfit.thumb.JPG.7821c9eb085162fe0528c17e9be7c701.JPG

I have deferred most fairing of the BHs till I get my better sanding kit.

But decided to do the deck and the stern " delicate features".

Departed from the book, did a temp fix of BH 16 and put on most of the "angle"  at the top

slope16.thumb.JPG.c7bf8cadd4a1018914240b50f946d95c.JPG

and then ran over the support beams and the top of the bulkhead  with a light sanding.

 Remove  the temp fix BH16 and then fixed the deck.

19401259_deckstick.thumb.JPG.89559d1ea3f3fbe4d5d178188d2865f8.JPG

Deck fitted with my usual array of spare scraps and elastic bands - I was going to pin the centre line but once I had it fitted as below it was lying quite well and flat so I didnt bother.

 

COMMENT ON DECK - this fits WELL but it has to be properly fitted in the slots on top of the BHs  -it only needs ONE of those to be slight;y out and the deck wont lie flat anywhere! There is such a temptation to open up the slots on the deck edge -  DO NOT just keep pushing the edges down into the slots and there will be a magic click and all will be flat.  I did a rough count - I had the deck on and off eight times with no breakage but you need to be decisive and give it a good bend across .

 

Glued the  frame patterns ( spot the repair?) and BH as a separate unit,

since I decided the patterns were too vulnerable while the deck was going on

And this was a good point to smooth off the slope at the top of the BH in line with the frames

frames1.thumb.JPG.a8be706c4f8301df31edac26ed2efdb7.JPG

frames2.thumb.JPG.7641066bde5e17b2c7e172dd63f20666.JPG

and just check the "unit"  went in OK

famess3.thumb.JPG.1978af69004a32d8ce82c3e9a1eadc4a.JPG

  This is it fitted partially just to keep all square as the  glue dries overnight but not pushed home or glued  to the main hull - will glue and fit tomorrow along with the ply pieces

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Posted (edited)

Time to call a halt!!

Got the "unit" fixed no problems - until my "wonderful" repair of the pattern  gave way when i tried to put a rubber band round it just to make things more snug while glue set.

699429584_whoops1.thumb.jpg.46939f708490caa2bfa34c903a47d44c.jpg

Easy fix but just careless of me.

Then I started to fit the stern counter - bit of chamfering at the botttom edge for a good fit.

Then the hull fell off the bed - my temporary workbench and damaged BH 2. 

whoops2.thumb.jpg.dd6e3082a065e04a7a1c4a4da1292149.jpg

So I got the message  -time to stop until i get a decent work area.

Just a quick fix on the BH before packing away.

So as before get the MDF sheet, break out the cutout as a  template and ..

template.thumb.jpg.b592013990ed3d3e4b28317c27eb933d.jpg

glue and clamp

IMG_1808.thumb.JPG.bfe3e52850d06c0b4fd219cabd21069b.JPG

But lesson learnt - report again from new house !!

Edited by SpyGlass
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I wish I had seen your fix for the BH before I made my fix (you posted it but I think it was after I did the repair, or I didn’t fully understand how you use the cut out). It’s a very useful technique that I more fully understand after seeing some pictures.


I was (still am) sad to your Alert log take an extended pause and now I’m sad to see your Speedy log take a pause. Good job on the fixes and I can’t wait to see you back with a proper workspace. Good luck on the move!

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Posted (edited)

Well my "Template" fix is a good one - I picked it up from someone else years ago.

BUT I was not happy about the counter and stern line up so didnt fix the stern frames them as  Chris recommended to protect the frames..

(Decided to  defer and do it when I restarted and could line all up with the gun port strips.)

 

So carefully carefully packed her away in bubble wrap.

GUESS WHAT bubble wrap is stronger than the stern frames - so I have only one left now !!

 

 Easy fix again   - I have the lower part of the frames properly in position to line up the counter with and the breaks are all at deck level.

So I will line the stern up with the side bulwarks , fix  that- then glue "delicates" back in position.

There is really a case for the stern frames to be in ply I think ! 

 

Ok well she is packed we are ready to move.

But just as an added final twist  we will probably have to go into "old vulnerable persons self isolation " in a short time - I hope to heaven we get moved first !!

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