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HM Cutter Alert by VTHokiEE - Vanguard Models - 1:64


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39 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

Did you find a US source for Derek’s special glue?

No, but I was looking mainly for the fly line at the time so I purchased it all from “The Essential Fly” and it took about 3 weeks to get here. A quick google search showed at least one company in Canada that sells it though, I’ll have to do some more searching as so far I like it a lot and I may start using it more often with the poly rope. 
 

58 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I make my rope by selecting the size and quantity on Chuck’s website and a few days later a envelope with my rope inside appears.

Ha! Yes, like a sane, normal person would 😂

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2 hours ago, glbarlow said:

I make my rope by selecting the size and quantity on Chuck’s website and a few days later a envelope with my rope inside appears.  I congratulate myself on a job well done. 😂🤣🤪😁

I may have try making rope your way😂 as there's  not many suppliers this side of the pond for good quality rope!

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Things have slowed down a little as I moved above the hull. Shaping the mast was quite the slow process but I think that it came out reasonably well. I have my eye on the yards and I hope that there is enough excess wood to allow for a chunk on each end to sit in my drill (not certain how to shape them otherwise without buying more tools 🙂).

 

I did purchase mast hoops from Vanguard - I trimmed off the little tabs, sanded them up and applied some wipe on poly and I think they came out well. I believe that I'm going to use some 5mm cleats instead of the supplied belaying pins and ring as I get there.

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I also tried my hand at serving some rope and found out that I don't really know how to connect the ends into a circle, but I managed by removing some of the serving line and creating a false splice at the point of the connection.

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Here she is right now, the hull is really in storage to avoid getting dust on her while I work on the masts further and the yards but I wanted to dry fit the mast to get a feel for it.

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Looking good Tim,

 

Make sure you have enough space below the cheeks to allow for the shrouds and pendent of tackles (if you intend to fit them)

If you intend to serve the shrouds around the masthead they will take up far more room than the  kit indicated 4mm, I placed the stop 14mm below the cheeks.

It is also easier to fit the shrouds before adding the trestletrees;  seizing the pairs is easier off model, less tiring on the arms, they can then be slipped over the masthead.

 

B.E.

 

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Shaping up nicely Tim.

 

8 hours ago, VTHokiEE said:

I also tried my hand at serving some rope and found out that I don't really know how to connect the ends into a circle,

I use a fine needle to take the end of the serving line through the rope being served a couple of times then apply a blob of fly tying glue or ca. Once you've finished serving the length you need, repeat the process with the other end of the serving line.  Once the glue is dry at both ends you can then trim the serving line. Others have suggested a half hitch to secure the serving line but that can look a bit bulky. 

 

1 hour ago, Blue Ensign said:

If you intend to serve the shrouds around the masthead they will take up far more room than the  kit indicated 4mm, I placed the stop 14mm below the cheeks.

It is also easier to fit the shrouds before adding the trestletrees;  seizing the pairs is easier off model, less tiring on the arms, they can then be slipped over the masthead.

I second B.E.'s comments. I had a debate with myself before gluing Speedy's  masts together but decided I could rig the shrouds on the model. I'm beginning to wish I'd followed B.E.'s recommendation, which was also my previous practice.

 

Derek

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11 hours ago, Blue Ensign said:

Make sure you have enough space below the cheeks to allow for the shrouds and pendent of tackles (if you intend to fit them)

If you intend to serve the shrouds around the masthead they will take up far more room than the  kit indicated 4mm, I placed the stop 14mm below the cheeks.

It is also easier to fit the shrouds before adding the trestletrees;

I saw this in your build and was very thankful for it, the trestletrees are staying off until the shrouds are on.

 

I plan on mainly following the kit rigging, but I will be adding "small" additions like serving the shrouds. I'm currently hoping that my calculations and observations are correct but I am starting to think that they might be slightly off. I had counted 9 loops around the masthead from the manual but now that I'm looking at the plan page with the stays more closely it seems like there may be 3 more loops that could potentially go here as well (The plans show these higher - on the cheeks 🤔). I'm also noticing that the shrouds are a thicker line than I realized as well which may through off my calculations further. I was calculating around .65mm line which when served was closer to .8mm (I may need to find thinner serving thread), but the shroud plans call for .75mm line before serving. Now I have plenty to think about and consider if I should move the stops lower; I currently have them at 10mm but I think I probably would be better served (no pun intended) with a little extra room.

 

EDIT: I added around 4mm to the stop to give me some extra breathing room so I don't get made at myself in the future.

 

9 hours ago, DelF said:

Others have suggested a half hitch to secure the serving line but that can look a bit bulky. 

I think what I'm looking for is referenced in your Speedy log on October 16, but I'll have to read through it a few times to see. Essentially, I have my lines served and complete as you described but I need to create a continuous loop like the two lower blocks in the second picture of my post above (connect the two served lines together to make a ring... boy the more I write the more I realize I am terrible at explaining things, thank goodness I'm not a teacher 😂).

Edited by VTHokiEE
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Sorry Tim, I misunderstood. I thought you were looking for a way to fix the ends of the serving line so it didn't unravel on the rope being served. My method works for unserved rope, but to create a served strop, which I think is what you're looking for, a better method might be to leave the serving line long at both ends, bring the two ends of the rope together to form the strop, and use the spare line to seize over the gap.   

 

There's a very good description of this technique in Volume lV of The Fully Framed Model, which covers rigging. I found this volume invaluable when I rigged Royal Caroline and I would strongly recommend it if it's not already in your library. The first 3 volumes of the series are also excellent, but only really relevant if you intend to build a fully framed model.

 

Derek

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40 minutes ago, DelF said:

Sorry Tim, I misunderstood...There's a very good description of this technique in Volume lV of The Fully Framed Model, which covers rigging.

No problem, and of course there was a used copy of this for sale here recently; I'll have to keep my eye out (or ask for one for Christmas 🙂).

 

44 minutes ago, DelF said:

create a served strop, which I think is what you're looking for, a better method might be to leave the serving line long at both ends, bring the two ends of the rope together to form the strop, and use the spare line to seize over the gap

This I think is what I am envisioning, I'll have to do some practicing and see what happens, appreciate it!

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  • 2 weeks later...

There have been several step along the way that have "kept" me up at night. First would certainly have been planking, but next in the list would be tapering dowels. I was very uncomfortable about how to best go about this step. Ultimately, I used my trusty cordless drill and my digital caliper. I cut off a section of dowel long enough to have some stock in the drill and then used 80 grit, followed by 120 grit and finishing things off with 320 grit sand paper. I did dabble with files, but in the end various widths of sand paper worked best for me (watch out when you taper near the drill as the opposite end can flail wildly and snap off leaving you with a yard that may or may not be about 4 mm shorter than the plan calls for, but I digress).

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Then I painted the yards, blacked the stops/cleats/eyebolts/etc, glued them on and touched everything up.

 

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Now instead of a lathe I think I'm back to looking at the MF70 or similar to use a compound table to accurately align and drill the holes (I don't have a drill press and a small mill seems more functional in the long run but it's all a dream as now). Overall I think they came out pretty well, especially will how fearful I was of the end result.

 

Right now I'm serving the rope for the first shrouds. Once I get these two done I think I'm ready to put the hull back on the table (really looking forward to that).

HM_Alert_Vanguard_0141.jpg.6fad9e4ac45c565656f6698f2453c001.jpg

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Thanks Rusty and OC!

 

Of course right after posting I hit a snag. I should not have attached the cheeks, if I make the shroud loop off the mast I can’t fit it over the cheeks 😕. I glued those on pretty well but with PVA so I’m hesitant to remove them.

 

Right now I’m attaching one of the shrouds (or whenever I finish it) and we’ll see how it looks when I’m done before I consider pulling off the cheeks. Also not certain how the seizing looks, but I think it’s okay.

 

21D584C0-4DEB-41A5-91A0-A96508800FB0.thumb.jpeg.d6ed05ad89f799cce269414f90b76032.jpeg

 

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I think it will work out fine without removing the cheeks, simply a little slower. I have the first shrouds attached to the mast and will press forward with the remaining shrouds and stays. I'm following the order and arrangement from the AotS book for this (which diverts slightly from the kit instructions).


Everything certainly seems fuzzier under a macro lens (FYI - this is all using Mara thread).

 

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Edited by VTHokiEE
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On 11/15/2020 at 1:18 PM, VTHokiEE said:

cordless drill and my digital caliper

I recently bought a lathe I don’t know how to use yet, up to now I’ve used your same method for years. You’ve done it well, your masts and spars look great as does your serving.

 

I don’t know how Chris describes it in the instructions but typically shrouds are a doubled, one line from dead eye, up around mast, back down to the next dead eye then that now double line seized at the mast.  Maybe I’m missing something.

Edited by glbarlow
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5 minutes ago, glbarlow said:

I don’t know how Chris describes it in the instructions but typically shrouds are a doubled,

The manual describes that exact method. I, for better or for worse, diverged from that to follow the AotS rigging here.

 

The first shroud is a single (and I served the entire length following BE’s log), then the 2nd and 3rd are doubled together as are the 4th and 5th. Then the backstays are single again. I have all these attached so hopefully I’ll have a picture soon.

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On 11/16/2020 at 10:43 PM, BobG said:

The servings on your shrouds look great. I really enjoy using Chuck's serving machine.

Thanks Bob - I do enjoy Chuck's tools. The rope walk is a lot of fun (if that's the right word?) as well. Every time I use it I think I get better results.

 

Thanks Derek and Glenn as well and for all the likes!

 

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As stated above, I used the AotS book for the shroud and backstay arrangement. Even without serving the ropes I feel like the 4mm of space from the instructions would be tight; I highly recommend adding some room here. for the seizing I used a needle to thread the line through the served rope at the start of the seizing and then to half square knots on top and below before finishing with a square knot (below), adding a drop of fly tying glue and trimming the ends. The fly tying glue does darken the line, but it is not that noticeable unless you are looking for it (or get close and use flash on your camera). 

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With the mast up, I'm scratching my chin a little trying to determine how to get the deadeyes on. I'm postponing this by practicing making a loop for them on a spare piece of rope (and eventually a jig for height). I think actually placing the deadeyes on the shrouds might have to wait until I get a solid chunk of time to devote. My spider-sense is warning me of some frustration is ahead 😁, but as with all the steps prior, once I find the right routine for me that'll pass as well.

 

 

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