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BobCardone

Philadelphia by Bob Cardone - Model Shipways - Scale 1:24 - Kit build with modifications

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Hey all,

Thanks for all the kind comments! The more I peruse the forum the more I'm amazed and impressed with the quality and workmanship of the wonderful builds here. 

On 3/22/2020 at 1:52 AM, Chuck Seiler said:

I am not a big fan of weathering the Philly since the original was built and sunk in a fraction of the time it took me to build mine.

   Chuck, I really enjoyed your 1:48 scratch build log... very well done and really informative. You're right that the boat didn't have the time to weather at all before her final fate. As far as her appearance when built, she probably resembled a garbage scow instead of a warship. I re-watched the video I posted on the first page of this log (a real hoot... very amateur but there's a lot of good video and the docent Eric really knows his stuff). Philly II (supposedly built similar to the original) had some serious leakage problems from the start. After the hull was completed, the builders filled it with water for two weeks to swell and seal the wood. Even after that, when finally launched she took on over 200 gallons of water an hour for quite a while, finally stabilizing to currently 75 gallons an hour. Knowing this, and the fact the original boat was built quickly (and probably crudely) from live oak leads me to believe that the original boat was probably totally slathered with tar to try and seal her up. Between the white oak, crude construction and lots of black tar I'll bet she was a real ugly duckling.

   I figured that wouldn't translate to an attractive model, so I decided to do mine as an "alternate reality" Philly. In this alternate world, Philly survived the battle of Valcour island and went on to soldier another year and was maintained well enough to at least be homely instead of butt-ugly. This also allowed time to install the mortar and generally trim up the boat. As I've previously mentioned, my Philly is just loosely based on the original, a re-imagining of what she could have evolved into if not so quickly and sadly lost. Plus, I just love weathering stuff...😁

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3 hours ago, BobCardone said:

to at least be homely instead of butt-ugly.

Your model is far from being "homely!" She's like the proverbial "small town girl next door;" she beautiful with just a small amount of make-up!

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On 3/22/2020 at 7:00 AM, BobCardone said:

The final finish is about 4-5 coats of Krylon matte clear, both deck and hull.

Was the Krylon matte clear the regular rattle-can spray?

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29 minutes ago, BobG said:

Was the Krylon matte clear the regular rattle-can spray?

Krylon Matte Finish #1311 from a rattle can. I used to exclusively use Testors Dullcote but since Rustoleum bought out Testors the formula seems to have changed for the worse. I've experimented with Tamiya flat but find it's really "hot" and can affect underlying finishes in a bad way. The new Testors Dullcote is pretty hot, too (they're both lacquer based).  Krylon is also lacquer based, but it's not near as hot and stinky as the other two. Plus, it's a LOT cheaper and easier to get.

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24 minutes ago, BobCardone said:

rylon Matte Finish #1311 from a rattle can.

I've had problems with the rattle cans spitting tiny globs at times. Have you experienced this and do you know a way to prevent that from happening when using rattle cans?

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Some progress on the rail cap details today...

   I installed the swivel gun brackets and used bolts instead of nails... not prototype but it adds a bit of detail. I also added some big bolts on the outside of the hull aligned with the breeching rings for the carriage cannons... recoil insurance I guess. I also stained and installed the thole pins and bitts, but I'm going to hold off on the cleats and catheads for a while. I fear they may get in the way as I continue interior work.

IMG_20200323_140003.thumb.jpg.970b1fe156dcbd30aeacc6ef35e0801e.jpg

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1 hour ago, BobG said:

I've had problems with the rattle cans spitting tiny globs at times. Have you experienced this and do you know a way to prevent that from happening when using rattle cans?

Ahhh... rattle cans...

   Rattle cans are like a box of chocolate. You never know what you're going to get (apologies to Ms. Gump). Rattle cans depend on pigment fineness, carrier volatility, internal pressure and nozzle geometry to work as intended. Manufacturers constantly change these parameters, so the same paint from the same manufacturer can vary quite widely batch to batch. 

I try to spray on dry days (hard here in Florida) outside when there's not much wind. I first set the can upside down for about an hour, then shake it A LOT. Next, I immerse the bottom of the can in hot water until it's good and warm (not too hot, you really don't want the can to burst) then shake the snot out of it some more. Definitely shoot a test piece before spraying what you want to coat, making sure you have a good even spray pattern. Make sure the nozzle tip doesn't get buildup and start spraying off the piece and end off the piece. I've also had good luck in swapping nozzles and keep good spray pattern nozzles from empty cans. That way if I get a "spitty" can I can swap some other nozzles to see if it improves.

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Bob.

 

    Thank you for your kind words.  Based on your incredible iron work, that is high praise.

 

    Yeah, not sure about the mortar.  It didn't work out too well the first time.  Of the two planned for the fleet, one exploded during fitting out and testing.  Don't recall if that was the one on Philly or another gunboat.  :pirate41:

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15 hours ago, Chuck Seiler said:

   Yeah, not sure about the mortar.  It didn't work out too well the first time.  Of the two planned for the fleet, one exploded during fitting out and testing.  Don't recall if that was the one on Philly or another gunboat.

Hi all,

   Good points, Chuck. I'm going to assume that they fixed whatever issues that prevented mounting and firing the mortar. The main reasons I want to use it are: 1) I believe the stern section needs more stuff to fill out what is a pretty big empty space, and 2) I have one with a scratch built carriage I'm pleased with. Here's an interesting aside about the mortar... It really fires! It was a gift from some co-workers, and it's been kicking around the parts bin for years. I've never actually fired it, but I've watched YouTube videos of people actually firing it. Quite impressive!

IMG_20200324_121031.thumb.jpg.b3696f7aa9c1764e619efd24ded3a3ff.jpg

   I got some more stuff done today... Got the mast finished and ready for stain. I'm in a quandary about what color to go with, any suggestions would be GREATLY appreciated! I understand that the original mast was pine, with the branches chopped off leaving ring marks where they attached to the tree. As others have stated, if I try and do the rings, the mast will look "unreal" so that probably won't happen.

IMG_20200324_094445.thumb.jpg.439fb0dedc6343e0892c87b385fec8a8.jpg

I also completed the rudder.

IMG_20200324_110042.thumb.jpg.acae98b619d950c5494ef6e54dc893a7.jpg

IMG_20200324_110333.thumb.jpg.b9cbbc74997930a7a2c98b014b4bba8b.jpg

   I'm rapidly approaching the point where I have to finalize the display base and case. I want to complete them before I begin setting the mast and starting the rigging. For the display base, I ran across this pic on google photos that really appeals to me, I believe I'll do something similar (if anyone has more info on this picture, LMK). The original boat extended about 1.5 feet below the waterline, so in scale that's about 3/4 of an inch. I'd like to build a lake bottom and shoreline and then do multiple resin pours to "imbed" the boat about 3/4" in the resin "floating" about 1 inch over the lake bed. The bow will be beached as in the picture. I'll put some rocks and trees on the shore, and include the gangplank and some securing lines to shore. Let me know what you all think, and any suggestions or tips on how to do this.

443F2828-98DC-483E-B3BB-05D5824680AA.jpeg.b50a0dcf6d50a6fddd24f4cc3ab813ef.thumb.jpeg.7ac9c5c13d72000db2ee58cc30bebe8b.jpeg

Again, thanks for all the support and kind comments, please feel free to critique and suggest improvements on this build.

Cheers,

BobC

 

 

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I second all the praises given to you and this fantastic build!  I will definitely use many of your techniques in my builds going forward. The details are what make this otherwise homely tub beautiful. The manufacturer's photos I felt, always made the thing too hideous to buy. But I now the old adage "don't judge the book by the cover" comes into play. Beautiful work!

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5 hours ago, BobCardone said:

Chuck. I'm going to assume that they fixed whatever issues that prevented mounting and firing the mortar.

Alas, no.  As I said, there was only 2 mortars.  One was to be mounted on Philly and one someplace else.  Don't recall which gunboat.  Looking at the Smithsonian plans and the Philly in the Smithsonian, you can see where sections were cut away for extra bracing and support...never used.  One of the guns exploded when testing.  Destroyed.  IIRC they had problems with the other as well.   Eventually decided to trash the whole idea and go mortarless.  :default_wallbash:

 

The mortar was obviously a counter-weight to the 12 pounder up front.  In order to compensate, they put a butt-load of rocks under the aft platform.  :champagne-2:

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23 hours ago, Chuck Seiler said:

Alas, no.  As I said, there was only 2 mortars.

   Correct, and they didn't have a lot of time to fix anything... plus they had only one mortar left anyway. Not worth the trouble. The artistic modeler in me says to use it... the rational modeler in me says dumb idea. I'm not sure who's going to win yet... luckily, I have a lot more work to do before I have to make that decision.

   Made some fun progress today. Permanently installed the mast partner and finished the cook stove. It was a real fun time getting the mast partner set correctly. For one thing, it barely squeezes by the rail caps and it pretty much needs to be exactly oriented in three dimensions when glued in. I ended up making cheater blocks for the roll axis where it attaches to the inside hull, and then using the mast to set the pitch axis and yaw axis. I carefully marked out the correct position and then removed it.... dabbed some glue and dropped it in...success! Everything lined up!

   Finished the cook stove. As others have done, I used the kit supplied brick section as a mold to make more realistic bricks. First, I popped out all the ones in the frame, then pressed some beige Super Sculpey into the frame mold. 15 min. in the oven at 275' F and voila!

IMG_20200324_152056.thumb.jpg.6e85396ee2ec1185f5aeb9a54146b077.jpg

 

   Then I popped all the bricks out and painted them Tamiya rust (sloppy on purpose, to let some base color show through). I built up the frame and stained it weathered gray, then mixed up some Durham's Water Putty (really great stuff for anything!) and put a 1/8" layer in the bottom of the frame to simulate the sand base. While the Durham's was still damp, I sprinkled some more on top to add texture.

 

IMG_20200325_125425.thumb.jpg.1cf944d43a19ebdc90af4dfeb78971f6.jpg

   Next, I built up the brickwork using Testors white contour putty as mortar. A quick pass of Tamiya flat black drybrushed to simulate soot, some trimmed twigs from the yard and it's almost done. I'll add a cook pot and a coffee pot (gotta have coffee in the Navy) and add some more detail as other deck work continues.

IMG_20200325_164122.thumb.jpg.8fde646a4fbe6e02411feebb4fa442d9.jpg

Here's a shot of the mast well with the mast partner, cookstove and Slim (I'm getting worried... he's having way too much fun with the muskets. I think he took a potshot at my cat...)

 

IMG_20200325_165922.thumb.jpg.fc6795f3fa0547f58a490f2d090e193e.jpg

Cheers,

BobC

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I still cant belive the level of detail in your build. That level is my goal now that i probably will never reach.

 

I call a vote. Who is with me that Bob would remove”Novice build” from the topic :)?

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Hi Bob - as many have already said, your level of detail is awesome. It has giveen me a lot to think about in planning for the start of my own Philadelphia project. From your responses to other posts it appears that you have a rather extensive background in model railroading (as do quite a number of others on this forum) and this has provided a number of resources and leftover parts, etc., that you have used in your detailing processes. Unfortunately, I don't have that in my modeling experience but it has given me the desire to know more and to explore the various sites available to all of us. Frankly, I am amazed at what is out there already and I just started my search. Thanks again for your fine work and most importantly, sharing your knowledge with the rest of us.

 

Bob

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Wow! Bob I just found this build log and read it from beginning to end. This is one of my favorite MS kits and you are really knocking it out of the park.

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Wow, I really appreciate the kind comments!

   This is a whole new set of challenges to have to add to my skill set. I've only had to work with wood on my model railroad projects, and that's all flat panels and straight boards and stuff. NOTHING like the spiling, bending, fitting, etc. required to build ships... let alone the new terminology, long history and that DREADED RIGGING. There are so many examples of world class woodwork and top shelf builds on the forum that I truly consider myself a novice. Once I get a few more ships under my belt I'll feel a lot more comfortable.

   Speaking of which, I've officially got "the ship bug" I haven't had this much fun in years of building, and doing this log makes me very careful of what and how I do stuff. In fact, I just ordered a Model Shipways USN Picket Boat, which will be next build up on the workbench. (Yay! no rigging and lotsa metal stuff to spiff up!)

   Again, I'm not trying to sandbag anyone, this is all stuff I've never had to do before. I would never have gotten this far without all the great build logs on the forum. As I have said before, If anyone has questions on any of my techniques, please ask. I'll be honored to share and explain, in the tradition of all the other members who graciously do the same.

   Just finished some touchup on the cook stove, found the coffee pot and cook pot, and some stray cat wandered in...

 

   IMG_20200325_203719.thumb.jpg.1bba432f7c386aba602aec643ca65ed6.jpg

Yikes! Slim found a sword!

IMG_20200325_225506.thumb.jpg.25d5b3be0f4d722884d84abe0085b14c.jpg

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If anyone is interested and is planning to do a Philly build, here's an All Philly build pictures-Raw and Uncut! photo album on Google Photos in chronological order

This is all the shots- the good, the bad and the ugly. There are a whole bunch of them that show a lot more of the construction phase. Some cat pics, too.

Any questions on what I did are welcome.

I'll keep it updated.

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Bob,

 

    One reason I liked the Philly is because of the VERY simple rigging plan.

 

    Everybody is commenting on your detail.  One are I specifically like is the detail of the bolts and other hardware.  I don't recall that being in the kit.  Where did you get those?

 

    Oh no!  Cat knocked over the coffee pot.  Slim with cutlass is unhappy.

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32 minutes ago, Chuck Seiler said:

I don't recall that being in the kit.  Where did you get those?

A company called Tichy-Train Group makes dozens of different sizes of nuts and bolts- square and hex head with either square or round washers. They also have a lot of other cool hardware that can be used on our builds. I got them off ebay, but there's probably other vendors on the Interwebs. Also, Grandt Line used to make a lot of nice hardware, but they are getting hard to find (Company gone under?).

45 minutes ago, Chuck Seiler said:

Oh no!  Cat knocked over the coffee pot.  Slim with cutlass is unhappy.

Slim better be careful... we have five cats, and with Slim packing only single shot muskets and a cutlass he'd better not start any trouble... The cats are swift and vicious and would take Slim down like a pair of cheap gym shorts if he gets out of line.

IMG_20200326_120320.thumb.jpg.42869ef860e3bd12bfbc30a76416dfa6.jpg

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Worked on some ammunition today. For the 9 and 12 pounders I'll be displaying solid shot, bar shot, chain shot and canister. I've got the first three figured out, I made 8 of each type with two types of bar shot:

 

IMG_20200326_155403.thumb.jpg.ed366f8c2923e28700cd543af5517e7a.jpg

I still have to make canister, wadding and powder bags. I'm not sure how I want to do those yet, more research is needed. If anyone knows some cool way of making them, please let me know.

I started in on some deck stuff, first color coat and detailing and weathering in progress. I had some base coat issues with some of the 3-D printed pieces, hopefully fixable. Note to self: Check paint compatibility before blasting away...😬

IMG_20200326_193916.thumb.jpg.70943b5ba5e86122cfc817fe9c6e2099.jpg

 

Got this in the mail today...

IMG_20200326_193949.thumb.jpg.75b3cee9709181dfd1de6306bb9661c5.jpg

Must resist.... Do not open the box.... Finish what's on the bench first....

Yeah... like I'm going to follow that advice... It's getting opened tonight (only for a parts inventory, of course😁)

Hopefully, my Philly will be done (except for the display case) in about a month and I can get started on this bad boy.

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5 minutes ago, BobCardone said:

I had some base coat issues with some of the 3-D printed pieces, hopefully fixable. Note to self: Check paint compatibility before blasting away...😬

 

Bob:

Badger Airbrush makes a primer paint especially for 3D parts - Called 3D Prime.  Compatible and it evens the small steps out.  It's available from our MSW Sponsor USA Airbrush Supply.  i haven't shot any of this myself but I have seen parts that it was used on.

https://usaairbrushsupply.com/t/new--featured-products 

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3 minutes ago, kurtvd19 said:

Badger Airbrush makes a primer paint especially for 3D parts - Called 3D Prime.

Thanks, Kurt!

This is my first attempt with working with 3D printed parts, like anything else there's a learning curve. I think I can salvage about half of the ones I've painted already. I'll get some of that primer to use on the rest of my raw 3D pieces.

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Bob, the GrandtLine parts went to SanJuanDetails.com. Their parts were/are too good to go away. They do HO, S, O and Large Scale hardware.

 

And wash the 3D parts in Dawn and warm water before painting. The waxes used with these printers leave a residue that could prevent the paint from adhering well.

 

The primer Kurt talks about sounds interesting; wonder how it works on the hand cast resin parts out there. Those resins are a polyurethane material. Believe it's different from the resins and plastics used in these 3D printers.

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On ‎3‎/‎24‎/‎2020 at 12:29 PM, BobCardone said:

 

   I'm rapidly approaching the point where I have to finalize the display base and case. I want to complete them before I begin setting the mast and starting the rigging. For the display base, I ran across this pic on google photos that really appeals to me, I believe I'll do something similar (if anyone has more info on this picture, LMK). The original boat extended about 1.5 feet below the waterline, so in scale that's about 3/4 of an inch. I'd like to build a lake bottom and shoreline and then do multiple resin pours to "imbed" the boat about 3/4" in the resin "floating" about 1 inch over the lake bed. The bow will be beached as in the picture. I'll put some rocks and trees on the shore, and include the gangplank and some securing lines to shore. Let me know what you all think, and any suggestions or tips on how to do this.

443F2828-98DC-483E-B3BB-05D5824680AA.jpeg.b50a0dcf6d50a6fddd24f4cc3ab813ef.thumb.jpeg.7ac9c5c13d72000db2ee58cc30bebe8b.jpeg

Again, thanks for all the support and kind comments, please feel free to critique and suggest improvements on this build.

Cheers,

BobC

 

 

The diorama you have pictured is by Jim Rogers...he is on this site.

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2 hours ago, Canute said:

Bob, the GrandtLine parts went to SanJuanDetails.com.

Thank you, Ken!

   I've been hoping someone would continue making these fine accessories. I'm getting a big order ready from them, my USN Picket boat (next on the bench) will need a lot of their stuff. Washing plastic and metal parts is the first thing I do on a new kit. You never know what mold releases or lubricants the manufacturers use, so washing is good insurance. I also wash whole assemblies after I've built them prior to painting to remove skin oils and other build spooge. Cast metal parts I prime, and brass parts I blacken for prep. Sometimes I get in a rush and skip some prep steps, these crates are a prime example to NOT SKIP THE BASICS!

 

   I was able to save some of the pieces I already attempted painting, and ordered another set and some 3D primer so hopefully I won't have the same problem with the next batch. The company that made the crates, barrels and chests I got from a local hobby shop is called Extruded Gaming Ltd., based in Australia. They mostly make 28mm wargaming accessories, which scale well with the large scales I'm building. I've since found out that Amazon carries a lot of their products with prime... Here's the assortment I just ordered, they will be here Monday and were cheaper than the hobby shop I got the first batch from. They'll replace some of the fubared pieces from the first batch, and the extras added to the USN Picket Boat next in the build queue.

 

   Thanks for all the help gentlemen, again the forum comes to the rescue! Speaking of help, does anyone know what type of canister the Philly may have carried? I've seen a bunch of different configurations... Metal cans, lumpy cloth bags, smooth cloth bags, etc. Some have a wood plug on the bottom, some don't. I think I've got the wadding and powder bags figured out, but any suggestions would be most welcome.

 

   Here's a shot of some of the "survivors" of the great paint fiasco...

IMG_20200327_111531.thumb.jpg.f16c2a9777c203438822f9cf30454cd2.jpg

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