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HMS Pegasus by Mugje - Amati - 1:64 - Second build

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Ah I wondered if you were going to do simple margin planking or whether you were going to do some extension of your anchor stock style. 

Margin will be easier (though i presume you will keep up your high standard with some nice scarf jointing ).

I just found it that bit more difficult to plank the final  planks up to the strip.

 

I have one tip though -  fully shape both forrard strips of course but only attach one firmly.

Then you can clip the bulkhead tops that side and still have good access across the deck without the other strip in place so you can plank right up to the attached one and do all the necessary "fiddling about" there

Then after  you are satisfied with each plank - theoretically just shaping a mirror image of each plank as you go means you are well on the way to be  ready for the remaining side.

Personally i would complete the deck planking before doing the second planking

 

 

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37 minutes ago, SpyGlass said:

Ah I wondered if you were going to do simple margin planking or whether you were going to do some extension of your anchor stock style. 

Margin will be easier (though i presume you will keep up your high standard with some nice scarf jointing ).

I just found it that bit more difficult to plank the final  planks up to the strip.

 

I have one tip though -  fully shape both forrard strips of course but only attach one firmly.

Then you can clip the bulkhead tops that side and still have good access across the deck without the other strip in place so you can plank right up to the attached one and do all the necessary "fiddling about" there

Then after  you are satisfied with each plank - theoretically just shaping a mirror image of each plank as you go means you are well on the way to be  ready for the remaining side.

Personally i would complete the deck planking before doing the second planking

 

 

I see what you mean, maybe that is a good option, but it feels a bit weird to clip the bulkhead tops without the second planking the gunport strips.. Could be a bit distorted maybe after clipping the tops and just the bare strips. I think I feel more comfortable if there is are planks on the strips that holds everything in place :P 

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Do what feels right for you - your fingers are clearly much more flexible than mine anyway.

 

Oh and just one more ( pedantic ?) point  - check  again that the deck edge is fully faired with the BHeads - it doesnt matter if the deck is a bit short the small gap wont matter when planking but its quite a nuisance if the edge is a bit proud.

 

Actually the strips really are pretty firm once glued and left to really set before removing tops. Here is one of mine

IMG_5421.thumb.JPG.e04d2a274542dbce3204886d787bfea3.JPG

Mind I suppose there is nothing to stop you planking just each gunport strip area separately  on  each side if you think it needs the strength.

BUT at least temporarily fix the deck beams which locks everything in place better. I usually run  a drill hole for a VERY fine pin through the beam joints to do that.(See the red arrows on the pic)

(EXCEPT for the fancy first one for the quarter deck - be very careful with that one because the lugs break -  remember it goes in sideways !)

Note I needed a bit of packing on that beam - generally that one and also one of the quarter deck beams ( cant remember which ) do need a bit of packing

 

.

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10 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

Do what feels right for you - your fingers are clearly much more flexible than mine anyway.

 

Oh and just one more ( pedantic ?) point  - check  again that the deck edge is fully faired with the BHeads - it doesnt matter if the deck is a bit short the small gap wont matter when planking but its quite a nuisance if the edge is a bit proud.

 

Actually the strips really are pretty firm once glued and left to really set before removing tops. Here is one of mine

IMG_5421.thumb.JPG.e04d2a274542dbce3204886d787bfea3.JPG

Mind I suppose there is nothing to stop you planking just each gunport strip area separately  on  each side if you think it needs the strength.

BUT at least temporarily fix the deck beams which locks everything in place better. I usually run  a drill hole for a VERY fine pin through the beam joints to do that.(See the red arrows on the pic)

(EXCEPT for the fancy first one for the quarter deck - be very careful with that one because the lugs break -  remember it goes in sideways !)

Note I needed a bit of packing on that beam - generally that one and also one of the quarter deck beams ( cant remember which ) do need a bit of packing

 

.

 

Great post again! I noticed indeed that the edge of the false deck needs some trimming, so working on that now. And very good tip on those deck beams...a pin keeps them firm in place without glue. My first idea was to place a real small dab of glue onto the beam, but a pin is much better! Very helpful :) 

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Busy with the gunport strips...fitting and soaking, but with soaking for the second time the strips bending right back to their original state, so I can begin from the start again :P 

I use warm water and just in minutes they are straighting right back...any tips on this? Or is this normal? I just have the overall bend in them now, but the subtle curves aren't there yet

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It is a process - it always takes me at least three passes but can  take  more.   But make sure that the strip  is completely dry before doing the next step.

Leaving it a couple of days each time is not overkill.

 And before each step  - only take the strip off immediately before soaking and get it straight back on afterwards. 

Also I use hot water straight from a  kettle not just warm - 30 mins.

 

I have been tempted to "speed dry" with the Admirals hair dryer but resisted in case of possible warping of the base structure.

 

 If you have got the main curve more or less right then clamp with the  "spacer" pieces to force the vertical curves into place and let it dry and I mean completely dry -  for a couple of days and then see where you are.

 

I am though a bit of a nut🤪 about getting this strip right - almost my greatest modelling moment was putting the two forrard strips on fitting exactly with only a single pin in each.

 

But you dont need to get it as far as that.  It doesnt have to be totally perfect to get a reasonable result - I dont use filler but it can fix a lot

 

 Watch the bottom edge - and I do urge you to put a spare strip along it and clamp along both since there is a tendency as you are vertical bending for the bottom line to dip "inside" between Bulkheads which is what i mean by "wavy "

 

How about a pic when you have the next clamping in place ?

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9 hours ago, mugje said:

Busy with the gunport strips...fitting and soaking, but with soaking for the second time the strips bending right back to their original state, so I can begin from the start again :P 

I use warm water and just in minutes they are straighting right back...any tips on this? Or is this normal? I just have the overall bend in them now, but the subtle curves aren't there yet

Is this related to hysterisis function to humidity percentage ? But it is well know that hysterisis is not a symetrical curve, so the wood properties do not come back exactly at the initial state.

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I’ve a couple of ships to build - all designs by Chris including Pegasus. I think I will purchase some spare strips and try various techniques out in advance since this will be my first build (probably Alert by Vanguard before I try and tackle Pegasus). I’m trying to absorb all I can from you mugje as well as SpyGlass and the other master craftsmen. Such amazing quality! Setting the bar high 😀

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13 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

It is a process - it always takes me at least three passes but can  take  more.   But make sure that the strip  is completely dry before doing the next step.

Leaving it a couple of days each time is not overkill.

 And before each step  - only take the strip off immediately before soaking and get it straight back on afterwards. 

Also I use hot water straight from a  kettle not just warm - 30 mins.

 

I have been tempted to "speed dry" with the Admirals hair dryer but resisted in case of possible warping of the base structure.

 

 If you have got the main curve more or less right then clamp with the  "spacer" pieces to force the vertical curves into place and let it dry and I mean completely dry -  for a couple of days and then see where you are.

 

I am though a bit of a nut🤪 about getting this strip right - almost my greatest modelling moment was putting the two forrard strips on fitting exactly with only a single pin in each.

 

But you dont need to get it as far as that.  It doesnt have to be totally perfect to get a reasonable result - I dont use filler but it can fix a lot

 

 Watch the bottom edge - and I do urge you to put a spare strip along it and clamp along both since there is a tendency as you are vertical bending for the bottom line to dip "inside" between Bulkheads which is what i mean by "wavy "

 

How about a pic when you have the next clamping in place ?

Thanks for the explanation again Spy! Helpful stuff...with the next clamping I will post some pics :) 

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6 hours ago, Altima211 said:

Is this related to hysterisis function to humidity percentage ? But it is well know that hysterisis is not a symetrical curve, so the wood properties do not come back exactly at the initial state.

Could be, it does indeed not go back exactly to it's original state, but I was suprised how much it straightened out again!

 

3 hours ago, Gord-Canada said:

I’ve a couple of ships to build - all designs by Chris including Pegasus. I think I will purchase some spare strips and try various techniques out in advance since this will be my first build (probably Alert by Vanguard before I try and tackle Pegasus). I’m trying to absorb all I can from you mugje as well as SpyGlass and the other master craftsmen. Such amazing quality! Setting the bar high 😀

Welcome to my log! I would certainly start with the Alert, first because it's a nice size for a first project, and second...the manual and design will be much better so you can tackle the Pegasus with more ease afterwards. Or did you build something already?

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I have just finished rolling on the floor laughing  Gord . There are many master craftsmen on here but please dont enumerate me amongst them.

I am OK on planking and know a lot about how things SHOULD be done but pretty useless at DOING them myself !!

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Hi Mugje,

 

The capillary forces inside the wood structure is very strong and depend on the species. However, when we put higher temperature the lignin soften and this part of the structure act as a glue. So when we heat again this chemical structure adopt an another shape, shape that are submit to internal forces (fibers and capillar) that depend of the cellulosis structure and intersticial water. So wood is plastic (recovering shape capacity) but not 100 %. 

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7 hours ago, mugje said:

Could be, it does indeed not go back exactly to it's original state, but I was suprised how much it straightened out again!

 

Welcome to my log! I would certainly start with the Alert, first because it's a nice size for a first project, and second...the manual and design will be much better so you can tackle the Pegasus with more ease afterwards. Or did you build something already?

Alert will be my first build Mugje. The manuals written by Chris for his Vanguard line are definitely well done and he seems to improve them with each new model. I have his Vanguard Speedy and Flirt on the shelf for future builds, in addition to Pegasus and Mercury, and it’s great that his manuals can be downloaded from his site since I can read all of them without taking the paper copies out of their boxes. I wish Amati would do this too. 

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3 hours ago, SpyGlass said:

I have just finished rolling on the floor laughing  Gord . There are many master craftsmen on here but please dont enumerate me amongst them.

I am OK on planking and know a lot about how things SHOULD be done but pretty useless at DOING them myself !!

You’re very modest SpyGlass - I’m following your build of HMS Speedy and I really appreciate all of the tips you provide. 

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Ahh there you have it - I am FULL of tips - because I have personally done it wrong so many times !!

I am at this very moment making a pigs ear of Speedys first planking.

The title of master craftsman is completely inappropriate - but the title of  "well practiced failure " fits well. 

Thank you for your thoughts though but seriously can you spare my blushes now and we can give Mugje his log back !

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4 hours ago, Altima211 said:

Hi Mugje,

 

The capillary forces inside the wood structure is very strong and depend on the species. However, when we put higher temperature the lignin soften and this part of the structure act as a glue. So when we heat again this chemical structure adopt an another shape, shape that are submit to internal forces (fibers and capillar) that depend of the cellulosis structure and intersticial water. So wood is plastic (recovering shape capacity) but not 100 %. 

Really interesting! 👍

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