Jump to content

Twisting blade on MicroMark saw?


Recommended Posts

I have a Micromark table saw that was given to me. It seems to work fine for pretty much every thing I’ve cut to date, with one exception.   
I had a piece of 3 mm hobby plywood that was 13 inches long and 4 inches wide.  I needed to cut it in half, lengthwise, to make two 13x2 pieces.

 

I started to cut the wood, feeding it slowly so that rpm stayed up.  As I got about 4 inches into the cut, I could see the blade was clearly off course- it was twisting a bit and now cutting a line not parallel to the fence.   I backed the piece out and checked the settings again.

 

The fence was parallel/square to the table, and securely set at each end.  I’m using a zero-clearance insert.  So I’m wondering-  is this “ normal”?   Is ply that thick just too much?   I have no issue cutting similar-sized basswood or acrylic, or even cutting smaller pieces of that same ply-  like cross-cutting a piece that is an inch wide.
 

Just wondering what others may have experienced....

In progress:  

BlueJacket Lobster Smack 1/8 scale (RC)

1/96 Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane RC scratchbuild

 

completed:  

1/144 scale USS Guadalcanal CVE-60 RC scratchbuild

Revell 1/305 USCG 327’ Secretary class cutter

Dumas 1/16 scale USCG Motor Lifeboat 36500 (RC)

Lindberg 1/95 USCG Lightship LV-112 “Nantucket” RC conversion

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Are you sure the blade stayed put? I got rid of mine for that very reason. When ever I ripped a board the back end of the fence would loosen and the result was as you describe. I wound up attaching a clamp to the back end to keep it from moving but what really solved it was getting rid of it and getting my Byrnes saw. Zero issues with the Byrnes.

Regards,

Jim Rogers

 

Damn the Torpedoes , Full speed ahead.   Adm David Farragut.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmm, a mystery.  I wonder if the teeth on one side of the blade are dull.  The usual way to check alignment is to mark a tooth at the table surface near you with a Sharpie and measure the distance to the fence.  Then move that particular tooth to the back and measure again.  The measurements should match perfectly.    If they don't then adjust the fence, and check again at different distances from the blade.   I suppose there's also the possibility of a bent arbor shaft, but I think that would be less likely.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Check the thickness of the blade Bob.   I've found the thin ones really get warm on long cuts and do distort where as the thicker ones seem to work better.  I agree with high speed and slow feed.  You might also periodically try backing out of the cut an inch or so.  Seems to help from I've seen with mine.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, mtaylor said:

Check the thickness of the blade Bob.   I've found the thin ones really get warm on long cuts and do distort where as the thicker ones seem to work better.  I agree with high speed and slow feed.  You might also periodically try backing out of the cut an inch or so.  Seems to help from I've seen with mine.

I think you may be correct about a thin blade having a tendency to warp as it heats up, and if the blade is dull then heat would build up much faster.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Using a blade that is too thin for the material could come into play, and might be more noticeable with harder wood.  The blade being dull can also definitely cause it.  I had the same problem on my Byrnes.  When I was ripping planks, the width began to vary and thin along the length of the plank.  I was worried that I had thrown something out of alignment on the saw.  I'd been using the same .040" blade since I purchased the machine.  I replaced the blade and problem went away.  Someplace on the website (unfortunately not in the articles and download section - it is attached to a post in https://modelshipworld.com/topic/20499-new-to-table-saw/ but I kept getting error messages when I tried to attach it here) is a great document by Jeff Hayes who used to operate Hobby Mill with recommendations for blade size for different thickness materials.  Definitely want to be using different thickness and toothed  blades for different thickness woods.  Might want to replace the blade and see if the problem goes away  (or use a thicker blade).  Can't hurt to have a spare.  If the one you are using isn't dull now, it eventually will be.

 

 

Current builds:

Wingnut Wings AMC DH9

Model Shipways 1/48 Longboat

Model Shipways 1/24 Grand Banks Dory

 

Soon to start:

Fully framed Echo

 

Completed builds:

East Coast Oyster Sharpie

Echo Cross Section

1/48 Scratchbuilt Hannah from Hahn plans

1/64 Kitbashed Rattlesnake from Bob Hunt practicum

1/64 Brig Supply

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How many teeth per inch on your blade?   Trying to cut a 1/8" sheet of ply with a slitting saw would have too many teeth in contact with the stock = prematurely filled gullets and increased friction.

The ideal is something like 3 teeth in contact with the stock.  That can vary on any single blade depending on how high the blade is raised and thus - the angle of attack.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Rcboater Bill said:

I have a Micromark table saw that was given to me.

Do you have a model number or a picture of the saw.  I have an old Microlux that looks a lot like the current Micromark saw.

 

I can turn you on to some excellent blades I have found for ripping plywood.  The kerf is pretty big,  so they are not very desirable for fine woods..  Too much waste.

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thurston made great blades (I'm still using them) but when they closed they recommended here; https://www.malcosaw.com/   

 

If you're using a slitting saw, there's no offset to the teeth so that is a constant source of heat build up.  I've found to not get into a big hurry... cut a plank, check the blade, if hot... wander off to get some coffee.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

To answer some questions:

 

It is a Micromark #80463 Tilting Arbor Table Saw. Except for this one anomaly, The saw has been trouble free.

 

The blade is on tightly, and I checked to make sure the blade wasn’t trying to tilt- it was firmly locked in vertical. ( And the zero clearance insert would stop the blade from tilting more than a degree or two anyways!)


The blade it came with is very fine-toothed.   I hadn’t really thought about the number of teeth- I guess I sorta assumed it was the standard “general purpose”blade the saw shipped with.  But maybe not...?

 

When I get a chance, I’ll try a few more tests...   

 

Thanks for the advice so far!

 

 

 

EC855E02-B60E-451B-A43A-380380164104.jpeg

In progress:  

BlueJacket Lobster Smack 1/8 scale (RC)

1/96 Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane RC scratchbuild

 

completed:  

1/144 scale USS Guadalcanal CVE-60 RC scratchbuild

Revell 1/305 USCG 327’ Secretary class cutter

Dumas 1/16 scale USCG Motor Lifeboat 36500 (RC)

Lindberg 1/95 USCG Lightship LV-112 “Nantucket” RC conversion

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yup,  it is highly probable that the cause of your problem is using an improper blade.  A rip cut of relatively thick ply is best done using a blade with many fewer teeth with much deeper gullets.  This will require the blade to be thicker.  The kerf will be wider.  If you tried this using the significantly more powerful Byrnes saw,  the ply would probably be scorched along the cut and the blade getting hot enough to affect its tempered strength.  The physics of it would be the same and the teeth would still not cut thru much of the wood.  I guess that you could feed the ply slowly enough not to fill the gullets.  It would be no fun atoll to take that long for a cut and be an example of false economy.

NRG member 45 years

 

Current:  

HMS Centurion 1732 - 60-gun 4th rate - Navall Timber framing

HMS Beagle 1831 refiit  10-gun brig with a small mizzen - Navall (ish) Timber framing

The U.S. Ex. Ex. 1838-1842
Flying Fish 1838  pilot schooner -  framed - ready for stern timbers
Porpose II  1836  brigantine/brig - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers
Vincennes  1825  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers assembled, need shaping
Peacock  1828  Sloop-of -War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Sea Gull  1838  pilot schooner -  timbers ready for assembly
Relief  1835  ship - timbers ready for assembly

Other

Portsmouth  1843  Sloop-of-War  -  timbers ready for assembly
Le Commerce de Marseilles  1788   118 cannons - framed

La Renommee 1744 Frigate - framed - ready for hawse and stern timbers

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes, that same blade will respond in the same manner when used on my Proxxon FET.  If it is used on any hard wood I must take very slow shallow passes, otherwise the deflection appears. Repetitive use on hard woods will certainly shorten the lifespan of its effectiveness......best to be used on softer woods.

Built & De-Commissioned: HMS Endeavour (Corel), HMS Unicorn (Corel),

Abandoned: HMS Bounty (AL)

Completed : Wappen Von Hamburg (Corel), Le Renommee (Euromodel)... on hold

Current WIP: Berlin by Corel

On Shelf:  HMS Bounty (Billings),

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Bill, I'm attaching a file.  While it pertains to the Byrnes saw, it also applies to other small saws like Micromark's.   He has a page in there about tooth count and wood thickness.

 

Byrnes Saw Operation.pdf

 

 

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have been using a MM table saw for many years with little to no issues.  With the exception of using very thin, fine tooth blades for cutting shallow kerfs/slots/grooves for making gratings as described by Frolich in The Art of Ship Modeling (pp.117-119)  I always use carbide tipped blades that are thicker.  It makes more sawdust, but zero issues with the blade wobbling. 

Allan

PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series.   Click on http://trafalgar.tv   There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time.  THANK YOU

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Here is a carbide tipped blade I have used with good success..   MTP 3 3/8 10mm arbor

 

I don't think the Micromark blades are any better, and they cost 7 x as much..

Luck is just another word for good preparation.

—MICHAEL ROSE

Current builds:    Rattlesnake (Scratch From MS Plans 

On Hold:  HMS Resolution ( AKA Ferrett )

In the Gallery: Yacht Mary,  Gretel, French Cannon

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks guys!    I think that  solves my issue.   

Next step-  order a new blade!

In progress:  

BlueJacket Lobster Smack 1/8 scale (RC)

1/96 Revenue Cutter Harriet Lane RC scratchbuild

 

completed:  

1/144 scale USS Guadalcanal CVE-60 RC scratchbuild

Revell 1/305 USCG 327’ Secretary class cutter

Dumas 1/16 scale USCG Motor Lifeboat 36500 (RC)

Lindberg 1/95 USCG Lightship LV-112 “Nantucket” RC conversion

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    • No registered users viewing this page.
×
×
  • Create New...