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glbarlow

tree nailing decks simple techniques?

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I know how to do tree-nailing the hard way. Any suggestions on simple, perhaps historically inaccurate, but nice looking, and quick and easy way to tree-nail a deck. ¬†Pardon the blasphemy of looking for a shortcut. ūüėĄ

 

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i have used this with good results .  drill small holes in planks where you want the treenails and fill with dark color wood filler, let dry and scrape ( not sand ) excess away.

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Hi Glenn.¬†I don't see any blasphemy. ¬†I prefer the shortcuts whenever I can.¬†Proper shortcuts is another kind of skill...ūüôā
So, every old processor (CPU) can give you many tiny nails  with round head. Depending on the possessor you can have different sizes.
It might help you if you decide not to make just pencil marks.


Thx

Pins.jpg

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I reply myself from another post...

You could try by visiting a local repair store in which, a non functional CPU might be given for free,

related fb pages where you can find them also for free or by an exchange and

finally from the ebay starting from around 2 euro-dollar.
Thx

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If you can locate a medical needle of appropriate (to your scale) thickness or other steel tubing, cut off its end and sharpen the edge. Press and twist it into the decking to obtain small circles - this will give you great looking simulations of your treenails.

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Glenn,  If your are building the Lady Nelson at scale 1:64 and  with treenails for the decking at probably  3/4" or 1" diameter, they would only be about 0.011 to 0.015 in diameter. Even the Byrnes draw plate, which is an excellent piece, only goes to 0.016 diameter and it is difficult to make treenails this small in diameter even with bamboo.  Scott Chambers suggestion above may be a good one with the right filler material.  If the scale is indeed 1:64, drill holes in #78 or 80 size and fill with a wood filler that is a LITTLE different in color than the decking.  Too much contrast will look like a case of the measles.  At these small diameters even this method may not work so well.  Showing deck treenails at this scale may not be a good idea at all.    Some people, myself included, believe that oversized treenails  look far worse than none at all.    Maybe  make a few test pieces and see how it looks using different methods then decide which, if any, you like.

Allan

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if you are using strip - make a jig - see sort of example here- you can enhance the holes with pencil if you like OR just let them fill with varnish which give a slight contrast

 

  deck planks

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This is a discussion that seems to pop up over and over again. Perhaps the Administrators can 'pin' it up permanently for quick rerefence to the different techniques ?

 

Two comments that I made before, I think:

 

- the short plugs over the bolts that hold down decks (not actually tree-nails, which are used to hold planks to the frames etc.) are cut from the wood so that they show the grain across them - they don't show end grain; there are two reasons for this, one technical and one aesthetic: end-grain is prone to rotting and the idea was to make them as less visible on the deck as possible; shipbuilders and -owner wanted to have a clean-looking deck. Also, with the typical maintenance by 'holy-stoning' decks using blocks of sandstone, the harder end-grain would soon stick out over the deck.

 

- model building seems to follow conventions and fashions and seems to have done so for centuries; modern model builders often try to reproduce historic models, rather than historic prototypes, they make models of models, rather than models of real ships; this is ok, but one has to be clear with oneself about the intentions and should not mix styles, or the results look odd; so, on a real ship one would barely see the fasteners (see above), therefore, on a realistic representation one should not see the fasteners either; conversely, on artisanal type models, the visible fasteners are either due to the techniques used (at the time), or intend to show the builder's diligence and skill.

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What do the plugs for deck fasteners really look like?  Troll through You Tube videos of tours of real ships.  I recommend sea sickness medications before watching too many videos at one time.

 

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#9: Succinctly put, thanks. There is a practical and aesthetic difference between deck plugs and treenails in the real world. Accordingly I am thinking that on my 1:48 armed brig c.1810 that I will NOT indicate deck plugs, but will use tree nails in the hull planking. 

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I served on three "modern" (1940s through 1970s) vessels with wooden decks. Two were wooden minesweepers and one was a modified Cleveland class cruiser (wooden deck).

 

The deck planks were fastened to the hull structure with recessed fasteners. A wooden plug was pounded into the hole over the fasteners. These plugs were cut from the same wood as the planks, and the grain was oriented the same as the grain in the deck planks (as Wefalck said). Standing on the deck and looking down at my feet it was difficult to see the plugs. This was especially true on well maintained (holystoned) decks. From even a slight distance these plugs were invisible.

 

Look on line for videos of the HMS Victory. There are many walk-around videos, and almost none of the trenail plugs are visible (maybe a few at the top of ladders where wear is heavy and the camera was very close to the deck).

 

Of course, if you are modeling a rotting hulk the plugs will have expanded and stand proud of the planks. They are very visible and it looks awful!

 

Trenails are a modeling fad. Some folks attempt to build a model piece by piece just as the original was built, trenails and all - more or less. Unlike the originals, they want you so see all the hard work that went into placing each and every trenail. As far as I am concerned this is OK - I may do it myself someday.

 

It is a personal preference.

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Well said, wefalck and Dr PR. Another way of looking at it is to say that if you can hardly see them with your eyes 5-6ft away on a real ship, then at 1/64, with plugs 0.5mm diameter, imagine trying to see them 5 x 64 = 320ft away. There are so many conventions in building models of models: the framing of Admiralty style models for example. But in such conventions there is another consideration: the beauty of the model itself, which is perhaps what people try to replicate.

 

Tony

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On 2/18/2020 at 1:47 AM, Thanasis said:

Hi Glenn.¬†I don't see any blasphemy. ¬†I prefer the shortcuts whenever I can.¬†Proper shortcuts is another kind of skill...ūüôā
So, every old processor (CPU) can give you many tiny nails  with round head. Depending on the possessor you can have different sizes.
It might help you if you decide not to make just pencil marks.


Thx

Pins.jpg

Great idea for future!!!!

Will use this for some parts of the current model but just learn the the fishing schooner that is in the works was built with tree nails. Did some reading to find our what they were talking about. Thought that nails would be hard but you made that task better now how do I make all the tree nails? Maybe I can just glue the boards and fake them?

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Have been doing some research. Some museums want money to help but had some luck. They would fill the hold with fish sail to say to France sell the ship and the fish in the hold and get a ride back to build the next ship. Also learned that the hull boards were put on with tree nails from 1700 to 1770 east coast. Did not know what they where talking about so went on line for a search to learn about tree nails.

I have 6000 square nails for a future project LOL.

The variations of the design was popular around PEI, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and Maine. Did not find one the same and think the model is a compilation of designs.

The boat is a two mast gaff rig in winter configuration, was designed to be sailed by only 4 men and a cabin boy. That way the cut was better between them. Went on a trip to some sunken ships one was a fishing schooner the main ribs in the center where spaced about 4' apart and had two smaller ribs in between. The ribs looked to be one peace of wood? Thought they laminated them? Also got a good look and got some pictures of the wooden windlass used on the 3 mast 100' schooner. Think the model will be a representation of the real thing and not a real ship. 

Every day a gain more respect for all the great work on this site. 

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 8:58 AM, SpyGlass said:

if you are using strip - make a jig - see sort of example here- you can enhance the holes with pencil if you like OR just let them fill with varnish which give a slight contrast

 

  deck planks

another great idea thanks!

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On 2/18/2020 at 3:21 AM, Dziadeczek said:

If you can locate a medical needle of appropriate (to your scale) thickness or other steel tubing, cut off its end and sharpen the edge. Press and twist it into the decking to obtain small circles - this will give you great looking simulations of your treenails.

like this idea at 1/48th scale a really fine needle may work; hard to get but my wife is a community health care worker maybe I have a way ;)

 

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