Canadian Pacific Wood Passenger Cars, by Realworkingsailor, Scratch Built, Kit Bashed 1:87

[realworkingsailor]

41 minutes ago, Canute said:

Andy, must have needed multiple jigs for all those grabs. Forming them must have been fun, too.  But they look good.

Although I’ve made my own grabs in the past, these were all pre-made. (I cheated, sorry😔). 

 

41 minutes ago, Canute said:

The only walkover type seat sellers I seem to remember was Grandt Line and Red Cap Line. Grandt is still around, under new ownership and their new parts lineup is skimpy. Red Cap Line is closed; they did have those type seats or at least the 1930s versions.

There’s not many parts suppliers left anymore, and most that remain viable seem to stick to locomotive parts or building parts....

 

Andy

 

Edit

 

mwahaha: https://www.walthers.com/coach-seats-for-standard-gauge-cars-drgw-style-w-two-wood-ends-pkg-12

 

Edited April 26, 2020 by realworkingsailor

[popeye the sailor]

look'in good Andy.......looks super with the metal hardware.  I didn't know for some time,  but I have a tool to make grab irons.  when the Wisconsin based Billing USA closed down,  Tom sent it to me.  I never knew what it was until  I browsed through a Micro Mark catalog one day.  it's called the grabhandler,  sold by mission models.

no....that's not mustard   

[realworkingsailor]

Well, the orders have been made... The seats from Walthers, and the styrene (and some paint) from a local(ish) hobby store.

 

Paint and plastic should be here early next week.... still waiting on news of the seating.... 

 

Andy

[realworkingsailor]

Just got notification that my order from Walthers has shipped (the seats)... coming from Milwaukee.... I wonder how many exotic locations it will pass through before getting to me.... and will it arrive before.... say.... September (year not specified)... Fingers crossed!🤞

Andy

[egkb]

Hi Andy .. Yup, same over on this side of the Pond.. Bad news when our mail has a more varied life than us   

 

All The Best

 

Eamonn

[ErnieL]

Andy, I'm loving this.

A number of years back I had bought a bunch of the Branchline heavyweight coach kits to convert to the CP heavyweights.   They were almost a spittin' image of the CP 80' heavyweight other than some vestibule issues, no dividers on the door windows, and a different style of three axle trucks.

I looked far and wide for the correct trucks and had resigned myself to scratchbuilding a fleet of them, until I finally found some plastic ones by, of all places, Athearn.  A bit of bolster work and they're perfect.

Then lowering windows and such, and suddenly we had an easy way to a fleet of heavyweights for 2816 or 3101 to tug around. 

 

You're doing this the hard way, and I LOVE IT!

[realworkingsailor]

Hi Ernie, thanks for the compliments!
I agree the Branchline kits were reasonably close (albeit a tad short) for a CPR heavyweight.

Would it rot your socks to know that Branchline also made a top-equalized truck too? 😏
I’ve had these kicking around for a few years, but apparently Bethlehem Car Works has them listed for sale: https://bethlehemcarworks.com/branchline-passanger-car-parts/

 

Andy

[ErnieL]

4 hours ago, realworkingsailor said:

Hi Ernie, thanks for the compliments!
I agree the Branchline kits were reasonably close (albeit a tad short) for a CPR heavyweight.

Would it rot your socks to know that Branchline also made a top-equalized truck too? 😏
I’ve had these kicking around for a few years, but apparently Bethlehem Car Works has them listed for sale: https://bethlehemcarworks.com/branchline-passanger-car-parts/

 

Andy

I learn something new everyday. Awesome. 
And I was messing with Athearn trucks trying to get the coupler height and bolster height correct. 
So you’re doing 20s-50s?  No lamp oil burners then, huh? 

[realworkingsailor]

A little bit more into the late ‘40s, early ‘50s. I’m in the planning stages of a layout representing portions of the Dominion Atlantic Railway, a CPR subsidiary, in Nova Scotia. 

Andy

[ErnieL]

1 hour ago, realworkingsailor said:

A little bit more into the late ‘40s, early ‘50s. I’m in the planning stages of a layout representing portions of the Dominion Atlantic Railway, a CPR subsidiary, in Nova Scotia. 

Andy

We’re mighty close. I do the late 40s-early 50s In Vermont and NH. That means long coal drags, plenty of locals, varnish and rattlers. Long lashes of Alco/MLW oil burners, and all steam from ten wheelers, Pacifics, Mikes, and of course the big Hudsons. 

Plus the CPR/B&M varnish run through.

 

Now, if you’re doing the light load branchline in NS and NB, I think you have license to use 4-4-0 Americans as well.  

I’m intrigued.

OK, you got the other high iron nut all revved up here..

Edited May 2, 2020 by ErnieL

[realworkingsailor]

The DAR was a bit more of a secondary/regional/branch line all wrapped in to one. One of the last lines in North America  to run trains with open observation cars (even wooden obs cars as late as ‘56). The big freight was gypsum, complete with double headed ten-wheelers and strings of oversized composite, drop-bottom gons (the “famous” Big Otis cars).
There’s a great online resource here, lots of photos and other documents. 
Personally, one of my favourite aspects of the DAR was how they painted (and named!) their steam engines:
http://dardpi.ca/wiki/images/DAR2552_Halifax_1939.jpeg

Andy

[realworkingsailor]

It's been a few days, but time for a small update.

 

The plastic and paint I ordered has arrived... or, more accurately, I went to pick it up, as the paint (rattle cans) could not be shipped via the mail. (An hour and ten minute drive to the hobby shop, 30 seconds to pick up my order then another hour and ten minute drive home.... Isn't curbside wonderful!). I'm still waiting on the seating, but who knows when that will ever arrive.

 

I've  added the wind deflectors to the clerestory this morning, so that largely completes the car roof. Hooray!

 

As for the window mullions.... where to even begin.... I think I scared the dog... she's not used to hearing anyone curse in full sentences. Suffice it to say that it was an exceedingly frustrating endeavour. 0.010" x 0.030" styrene was needed to make the mullions (any thicker and they would have looked clunky).  Unfortunately any time I applied glue (styrene cement), the little fleck of plastic decided it preferred to stick to the metal tweezers and not the adjacent plastic (or, conversely, go flying into the great beyond)... grrr.... After a few attempts I tried a slightly different approach by taking some 0.020" x 0.030" strip to use as a base and glueing the mullions to that first. The plan being to then cut out the division between the main and transom windows and inserting the entire construction into place... That strategy was binned quickly, when the styrene decided to glue itself to the cutting mat... and the metal tweezers.. and whatever it is in the great beyond that was far more attractive (What. The. Ahem!). So I've decided that for the sake of my sanity, I will forego the mullions. Not my preferred outcome, but...

The first coat of primer has been applied now, so no more pictures of blinding white plastic, although some of the details still struggle to be seen....

And the opposite side of the car... looks like I need a bit of filler on the eave of the roof over the lavatory windows. No big deal, at least things have resumed their forward movement!

 

Andy

[druxey]

Card rather than plastic mullions, perhaps?

[realworkingsailor]

12 minutes ago, druxey said:

Card rather than plastic mullions, perhaps?

Hmm.... It’s a thought.... I may, however, first attempt a corollary of your theory and try using CA glue instead...  I have some gel CA so that at least I may be able to better control where the glue ends up.... 

 

Thanks for the ideas!

 

Andy

[Egilman]

Beautiful Job Andy!

 

Gonna be gorgeous when fully dressed out...

 

[realworkingsailor]

What a difference a small thing, like changing glue, can have on an outcome.... (Thanks, Druxey, for indirectly giving me the idea)

Some progress on the mullions, as of this morning. Switching to CA glue has helped restore some of my sanity, or, at the very least, cleared the air of the loud blue fog that shrouded my previous attempts.... 10 mullions done... 76(?) more to go... I think....

 

Andy

[egkb]

10 Mullion done and only 76 left !! Jeez you are flying along Andy .. Sorry Couldn't Resist

 

Fascinating Build Ye Have Going Here .

 

All The Best

 

Eamonn

[popeye the sailor]

the car looks great Andy.......good you found a solution    great now......should look even better after  

[Canute]

Looking good, Andy. Nice to get some sanity back. And the primer looks good. Ties it all together.

[druxey]

Glad the change worked out for you, Andy. That detail make all the difference.

[realworkingsailor]

The tedious work of installing the mullions is progressing. There's decidedly a limit to how much I can do at one sitting (without going totally cross-eyed). 

I've just now completed one side of the car, and have started on the other side:

With any luck I should be back to painting soon (after a brief stopover in "filler land" to fix the roof).

 

Andy

[Canute]

The mullions on the upper sashes really make this car pop. Doing a great job, Andy.

 

Definitely need breaks working on those real fine details. I kitbashed some auto garages in N Scale for a museum layout and could only work on the windows about 20 minutes or so. Had to go work on some HO stuff.

[Javlin]

Andy that is some very professional work with beautiful results  Kevin

[realworkingsailor]

As always, I can't thank everyone enough for the kind comments, helpful suggestions and likes!

 

Work is now complete on the window mullions (WHEW!). It was a slow and tedious process (I think I may have mentioned that before, sorry for the repetition), but it was well worth the effort.

Definitely a detail that, had I omitted them, would have nagged at me, and it saves me from having to make repeated (embarrassing?) explanations as to why I left these features out, if I ever take this car to a prototype modellers meet. Painting has now resumed with a second coat of primer, and this morning the car got it's first coat of tuscan red (photos to follow soon). 

 

During the mullion interlude, I was also struggling with another detail that I had missed:

If you notice in the photo above of another prototype car (I'm fairly certain this is an official car), above the window just below the roof overhang of the adjacent car, there is a small valve and some pipework. This feature seems to be present on most (if not all) CPR wooden cars, but I couldn't find photos indicating on which end it was supposed to be located on my car. Until recently, so it was added in the appropriate place:

The valve itself is a brass casting meant for the drain valve of an air tank, but repurposed here, with some brass wire for the piping. 

 

I'm not entirely sure what the function of this valve is. If it was a freight car, I might assume it was a retainer valve. In a KC or AB freight car braking system, a retainer valve slowed the release of air from the car's brakes when descending a hill.  These valves allowed the brakes to release gradually while the trainline could be replenished from the locomotive(s), and helped to keep the train in control when descending steep hills. Brakemen working from both ends of the train would have to manually adjust each retainer valve prior to the train beginning it's descent. 

 

In a UC passenger car braking system, this function was integrated into the UC control valve, and could be controlled automatically. This allowed passenger trains to operate without brakemen.

 

Anyway, regardless of function, the valve is in it's proper position. 

 

Andy

[Canute]

Andy, I think it is what you think, a retainer valve. I blew the picture up as far as I could and it looks like one. Looked just like a freight car valve; you can see the retainer line running down the central door. Your interpretation looks good.

[realworkingsailor]

38 minutes ago, Canute said:

Andy, I think it is what you think, a retainer valve. I blew the picture up as far as I could and it looks like one. Looked just like a freight car valve; you can see the retainer line running down the central door. Your interpretation looks good.

Some further digging, and it would appear that you are right. Contrary to what I had initially interpreted what I had read, passenger cars were equipped with retainer valves:

Air brakes for model railroaders

 

Andy

[Canute]

I think they are not as obvious in the steel heavyweights and lightweight, because they are mounted inside the vestibules. Air brake systems were most likely add-ons to these wooden cars, not built into them, like the steel cars. I'd bet the conductors would squawk if they had to hang outside adjusting the retainers, going down a grade. I live not far from Saluda, NC The Southern Railway had a 5% grade on their mainline between Asheville, NC and Spartanburg, SC. This was a line from Charleston, SC to Cincinnati, OH. There were special procedures the train crews had to do in Saluda proper to set retainers to go down the grade, not to exceed 8 MPH. There was a timing section of track they went through. If too fast, they went into a divert section of track that ran up a steeper grade to stop or go off the rails into the woods beyond the track. And that did happen a time or two.

[realworkingsailor]

It could also be possibly due to an upgrade. From what I have read, the 1500 series coaches were built around 1907-1909, prior to the introduction of the UC braking system, but they would have had some kind of air brake system. The cars were subsequently rebuilt in 1912. That seems, to me, to be an unusually low number of years in service to require a rebuild (considering there seems to be no further record of major rebuilding until retirement around 1960), unless regulations required it for safety reasons (ie an upgrade in braking equipment).

I wonder, though, if the retainer valve was required as an emergency back up. If you read the NMRA file, the UC system was designed to allow for a gradual release of air (and hence the brakes), as opposed to the AB and KC systems. If the UC system failed either due to mechanical fault or freezing, or if the locomotive was not equipped for passenger train service, or even if the coach was used in mixed train service, a retainer valve would be a fail safe backup.

 

Andy

[druxey]

Glad the mullions worked out: it makes such a difference to the overall appearance of the model!

[Canute]

One of the railroad websites just had a series of blog entries on the retainer valves and their use. A couple of former and current railroaders were involved. They were set for descending grades to keep the cars from accelerating too fast and over-speeding the braking capability of the loco.

 

There were older passenger car braking systems, prior to the UC system, but I'm still looking for actual diagrams for you.