Scroll Saw or band saw... help me pick the right one.

[Jorge Hedges]

Hello Gents!

 

Need you to sell me why a scroll saw or a band saw.

 

I have most of the tools already (Both Byrne's table saw and thickness sander, Proxxon mini table saw, etc...), and have currently have an older Craftsman scroll saw.  Unit works, but it sure seems to jump hard (strong vibration up and down) when in operation.  Already opened it up, lubricated, checked, and I can't find the source of the harsh vibration...  maybe better adjustment on blade tension?

 

Anyway, it doesn't help that the base is round, so I'm thinking of making a square aluminum base so I have a bigger platform that I can countersink/both it to the tool's round platform, and be able to even maybe clamp a fence, as I have seen in some woodworking sites.

 

So, long story short...  if this harsh vibration continues, and cant really use it for more delicate work, what brand and model of a band saw o scroll saw would you try to sell to me?   I am assuming that the most use it will see if for frames, when I finally decide to do my own frame version of cross sections or full framed hull.

 

Appreciate your input!

 

Thanks,

 

Jorge

[Justin P.]

I think we might have the same scroll saw.   Ive been looking to replace mine too, but haven't yet really needed to.  Mine is OLD, and was a hand-me-down.   I use it mainly to remove material quickly and roughly, not doing anything precise at all.    I actually think there is a place for both a band saw and a scroll saw, but if I had to pick - and I mean HAD TO - I would get the band saw and get by with a coping saw.   The band saw has so many other uses than the scroll saw.

 

But both are pretty cheap, unless you want the very best.    You can probably find a decent model of each for a grand total of $5-600.   

 

Ive been looking at the 9 or 10" WEN Band Saw personally.   I don't work with large wood, so a bench top model is perfect for me.  

[Gaetan Bordeleau]

scroll saw small delicate job, and precise job... when no vibration

band saw big jobs rough and thick

[barkeater]

For small piece work that you do with ship modelling I go with a scroll saw.

[davec]

I have both a scroll saw and 14" band saw.   While I bought the band saw with the intent of doing lots of things with it, the scroll saw has met my all my needs for precise cutting of small parts.  I have a Dewalt, which I really like.  There is some vibration (can't see how you could avoid having some), but not enough to affect ability to cut.  The band saw gets left set up with a resaw blade to rip thin sheets when milling wood.  Way safer than a table saw, so it was worth the investment for this alone.  If I was only going  to buy one tool, it would be the scroll saw.  It could be replaced by a coping saw, but I have limited time to model, and cutting all the frames by hand would turn my projects from years to decades.

[bruce d]

Jorge, is your saw bolted down?

[ChrisLBren]

Go with this Dewalt Scroll Saw 788 and Stand - no vibration.  I somehow managed to scratch build Confederacy with a crappy Delta saw that had so much vibration.  The Dewalt is a game changer

 

https://www.grizzly.com/products/DeWalt-DW788-20-Scroll-Saw-with-Stand-and-Light/H7414?gclid=CjwKCAjw-YT1BRAFEiwAd2WRtgYQQy5pOwsZ7zKRoJVJzvSMlFpfwgzXx7z0GxEmpHPZu1i0UMuzRRoCcikQAvD_BwE

 

 

[davec]

The saw that Chris posted about is the same Dewalt I use.  It is awesome- couldn't agree more.

[ASAT]

+1 for the Dewalt....

[Jaager]

I use a 9" bench top with the finest available blade (1/8") for scroll cutting.  I just need to get sort of close.  The blade has teeth with set.  There is significant kerf and the face of the cut is rough. As long as the blade is sharp and the blade run is not jammed with scrap, the cut goes quickly.  I added a Carter Stabilizer and with it I am not limited in radius. I can turn the work on a lot less than a dime.  It about doubles the cost of a low end 9" saw.   If you want to bull it out and finish with a disk or drum sander, a bench top band saw does the trick.  I would not attempt anything fine or delicate using it.  I would not use it for much of anything else though.  If you intend to get into the milling from planks or logs, a bench top band saw is a very poor choice.  That is a go big (14") or go home situation,  unless you enjoy frustration.

[Jorge Hedges]

2 hours ago, bruce d said:

Jorge, is your saw bolted down?

No, but was planning to do so after all adjustments are performed, as I have a wooden table in my garage for this and an oscillating sander.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

[Jorge Hedges]

This is the hand me down scroll saw i have...  will do some double checking on finer adjustments, and see if I can clamp down/bolt to the table to see what happens...  I assume that if affixed to the table, vibrations will cease, and I may have saved some extra cash...  for a Byrne's sander...!  I think that this unit with good blades still has some life left for frame cutting. 

*crappy pic, BTW...  I may get a better, detailed one...

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Jorge Hedges

[Roger Pellett]

I have a “crappy” Delta scroll saw.  When I first used it I broke lots of blades, very frustrating.  I’m a slow learner and when I finally got around to examining it under power, I could see the blade flexing on the down stroke.  Blades were breaking by fatigue.  I increased blade tension and have’nt broken a blade yet.  The saw also runs with little vibration.  Before scrapping your Craftsman saw I would first tune it up.  Vibration is also a function of the whole system; the saw, the stand that supports it, and even the floor that it sits on.  Making changes to the rigidity of the stand and the connections between the saw, the stand, and the floor might help.

 

Roger

[Justin P.]

3 hours ago, davec said:

rip thin sheets when milling wood

Do you mean for planks?

[davec]

I use the band saw to slice billets from large blocks of wood. I put the billets through a thickness sander, then slice them into the final planks with a mini table saw.  The band saw is nowhere near precise enough to cut final planks.

[Landlubber Mike]

I've had the Dewalt scroll saw for years, and it's served me well.  A friend gave me a band saw when he upgraded, and after a year or using it, would say that you probably will get more functionality from a band saw than a scroll saw.  

 

I'm not an expert by any means, but for me thus far, I've gotten a lot of band saw use that has mostly entailed cutting larger pieces of wood and other materials for other hobbies like pen turning.  With a band saw, along with added power to cut thicker pieces of wood and other materials, you can add a fence to make straight cuts, add a miter gauge for angled cuts, and change the blades to a thinner blade if you are cutting curves.  A scroll saw is much better for cutting curves and interior cutouts, albeit on thinner material.

 

So I would say think about what applications you would need the saw for and choose accordingly.  Of course, if you have the room and budget, get both   One tip - look on places like Craigslist for lightly used scroll saws.  Lots of people post scroll saws and other tools that they used once for a weekend or kid's project that are now collecting dust.  I bought a very lightly used Dewalt off Craigslist for a fraction of the retail price (and it was an older model which doesn't have some of the quality control issues that people are finding with newer units).

[Bob Cleek]

1 hour ago, Jorge Hedges said:

No, but was planning to do so after all adjustments are performed, as I have a wooden table in my garage for this and an oscillating sander.

 

Thanks for the heads up!

I had the same question. I have one of the same Craftsman scroll saws you do. Somebody gave it to me for free. (Now, I'm looking for somebody else to give it to for free!) It works decently enough for basic scroll sawing, assuming the correct blades are used, but it's a low-end machine and it has a lot of vibration which makes sawing to tight tolerances difficult and sawing for any lenght of time fatiguing. . It's on a Craftsman stand designed for it. I C-clamped the leg of the stand to the solid post of my workbench and that reduced the vibration significantly.  To minimize the vibration on them to the extent possible, they really have to be bolted down to something rock sold, like a heavy workbench. An ordinary table is better than nothing, but it won't get you all the way there.

 

My Sakura scroll saw, on a similar stand, has a double parallel link arm and practically no vibration whatsoever. The difference is about five or six hundred bucks between an "entry level" Craftsman and a top of the line "professional" machine. I got the Sakura near-new-used for less than the "entry level" saws cost. Used tools in good shape are often amazingly inexpensive compared to new-retail prices. It pays to keep an eye on the online classifieds. You won't see as many on eBay because the shipping makes them too expensive to sell with the shipping costs. What you are paying for in the high-end scroll saws, basically, is minimal vibration that permits easier accurate cutting and minimal fatigue in use. 

 

You may find this site on scroll saws helpful :  https://scrollsawhero.com/the-ultimate-getting-started-guide-to-scroll-saws/#Arm_Type

Edited April 23, 2020 by Bob Cleek

[bruce d]

Jorge,

For what it is worth, here is my opinion: do not attempt to use the saw (or judge it) until you have bolted it down solidly to a worktop. Do not use 'vibration dampening' rubber feet, just tighten it down directly to the bench. Get some good blades. Then, set it up from scratch following the makers' instructions.

Once that is done you will be able to figure out if the saw is adequate for your needs. Bear in mind that if you replace the saw on the basis of current performance, you will have to follow the process above to set up your new one properly anyway.

 

HTH,

Bruce

[Jorge Hedges]

Perfect, thanks for all our input.  Will definitely fine tune, affix to a wooden shop table I have (big and heavy), and then try it out.

 

Thanks again!

 

Jorge

[bruce d]

13 minutes ago, Jorge Hedges said:

Will definitely fine tune, affix to a wooden shop table I have (big and heavy), and then try it out.

 

To be pedantic, bolt it down before doing any tuning.

Have fun!

 

[Jaager]

Home Depot has free sample squares of Vinyl flooring.  As an intermediate between a tool base and a bench top, it may absorb some vibration even if it is under heavy clamping pressure.  I used this in-line for my Erector Set type mount for my 1/3 hp motor for the drum sander.  The cost was right - just a quarter turn on the nut.

[mtaylor]

Your scroll saw vibration problem is troubling.  Unplug the machine and check for looseness in the arms by trying to move them from side to side.  If they "wobble" then the bearings are worn out.  I had that happen to me on my old saw.

[Justin P.]

5 hours ago, davec said:

I use the band saw to slice billets from large blocks of wood. I put the billets through a thickness sander, then slice them into the final planks with a mini table saw.  The band saw is nowhere near precise enough to cut final planks.

That’s what I thought.  I guess I misunderstood what you were saying.   

[Moxis]

So far I have thought that the best scroll saw ever is Hegner. https://www.hegner.co.uk/products/machine-tools/scrollsaws.html  It could be interesting to see a comparison between Dewalt and Hegner.

[Jorge Hedges]

Ok, adjusted last night everything.

 

Clamped down the saw with 2 c-clamps, for testing sakes, and vibrations were markedly lower.  So all in all, I have to put some kind of light isolation pad, and bolt down to the sturdy table at the garage...  unit is pretty much usable, big time!

 

Now, I have to make a cover from either wood or aluminum where the saw blade runs, so onto the next mini-project (pic below).

 

I cut a 10mm pine or dense plywood piece (I really couldn't tell what wood), and the unit pretty much behaved well for the type and size of the wood.  These rough cuts can definitely be sanded down as needed with my spindle sander, or files/sanding paper....  the " circle" attempt is about 1" diameter.

 

All in all, saved money for the blades (any good recommendations for this scrollsaw), and most importantly, for the Byrnes Sander, which according to them, mine should be available within the next 3 weeks.

 

Thank you all for the support!

 

 

[Jaager]

Rather than bolt tools directly to my bench top,  I added a woodworkers vise under the front of the bench - a cheap HF vise that wants to rack when tightened, because the tolerances are from poverty.  But I do not do full size wood projects and it is not needed for that.

I use a 2x12 to make a tool base.  I use lag bolts to secure the tool and to mount a second piece of 2x12 to the front of the base and make it long enough to engage the vise.   

I can store the tools under the bench and have the whole bench open when I need it.   I can interchange a grinder,  machinist's vise,  9" band saw.  

There are open wrenches specific to the saw.  I fixed a spring clamp that is for dowels used for clothing hangers to the top of the base.  It holds the wrenches, but easily turns them loose.   Holes in the top hold tool specific Allen wrenches.

 

It looks like a 2x12 may be difficult to source, but the width is good to have.

[mnl]

5 hours ago, Moxis said:

So far I have thought that the best scroll saw ever is Hegner. https://www.hegner.co.uk/products/machine-tools/scrollsaws.html  It could be interesting to see a comparison between Dewalt and Hegner.

I have the Hegner. I consider it without peer. It is dead quiet and very smooth. It takes either scroll saw or jewelers saw blades.

[Bob Cleek]

6 hours ago, Moxis said:

So far I have thought that the best scroll saw ever is Hegner. https://www.hegner.co.uk/products/machine-tools/scrollsaws.html  It could be interesting to see a comparison between Dewalt and Hegner.

I've reviewed the published comparisons. Dewalt is the highest rated of the mid-price-range scroll saws. Hegner is at the top of any list, along with a couple of others, all highly-priced accordingly.

[Bob Cleek]

4 hours ago, Jorge Hedges said:

So all in all, I have to put some kind of light isolation pad, and bolt down to the sturdy table at the garage...  unit is pretty much usable, big time!

You'll probably find that any sort of vibration damper between the saw and the table it is on will dampen the table's vibration, but not the saw's vibration! I think you'll find that bolting the saw down to the most solid platform youi can find or devise will get you as close to no vibration as you can get. Mass trumps vibration.

[Jorge Hedges]

On 4/24/2020 at 2:12 PM, Jaager said:

Rather than bolt tools directly to my bench top,  I added a woodworkers vise under the front of the bench - a cheap HF vise that wants to rack when tightened, because the tolerances are from poverty.  But I do not do full size wood projects and it is not needed for that.

I use a 2x12 to make a tool base.  I use lag bolts to secure the tool and to mount a second piece of 2x12 to the front of the base and make it long enough to engage the vise.   

I can store the tools under the bench and have the whole bench open when I need it.   I can interchange a grinder,  machinist's vise,  9" band saw.  

There are open wrenches specific to the saw.  I fixed a spring clamp that is for dowels used for clothing hangers to the top of the base.  It holds the wrenches, but easily turns them loose.   Holes in the top hold tool specific Allen wrenches.

 

It looks like a 2x12 may be difficult to source, but the width is good to have.

Hello Jaager!

 

Any pics you can share related to your bench/vise setup?  I would like to see if I can apply your concept, even if having to use a variation of it.

 

Thanks!