ErnieL Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share #61 Posted May 13, 2020 6 hours ago, Suzdal said: What sort of clamps would that be ? I have a bunch of clamps that you've shown in your photos. Would someone have pictures of the bigger clamps ? I too have a great deal of trepidation about planking. Was going to order the Speedy, but will hold off and order the Zulu today from Chris. Richard I have some bigger woodworking C Clamps that I though I might be able to Rube Goldberg into reachin around the entire hull, but unless I had them exactly perfect, they'd probably damage the MDF. So no, I won't be doing that either. I'll just undo the one on there tonight and check the bend. Then adjust as needed and reattach permanently. Remember, I just wet it and held it in place to dry. No glue so far. Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTHokiEE Posted May 13, 2020 Share #62 Posted May 13, 2020 Not certain if this is exactly what you are looking for but repurposed binder clips can possibly hold down the planks. https://modelshipworld.com/topic/2003-clamps-what-kind-do-you-use/?do=findComment&comment=47524 ErnieL 1 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share #63 Posted May 13, 2020 I'm thinking if nothing else, then the trusty Finger, Mk.1a could be of use. Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted May 13, 2020 Share #64 Posted May 13, 2020 just no more crazy glue experiments!😇 Moab and ErnieL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 13, 2020 Author Share #65 Posted May 13, 2020 1 hour ago, clearway said: just no more crazy glue experiments!😇 Like the time I glued my left hand to my cellphone? not cool.... clearway 1 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffT Posted May 13, 2020 Share #66 Posted May 13, 2020 8 minutes ago, ErnieL said: Like the time I glued my left hand to my cellphone? not cool.... 😂 I hate when that happens. ErnieL 1 Quote Jeff In progress: Medway Longboat 1742 - Syren Ship Model Company -1/2" scale USS Constitution - Model Shipways - Scale 1:76 HMS Granado - CAF Model - 1:48 HMS Sphinx - Vanguard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DelF Posted May 14, 2020 Share #67 Posted May 14, 2020 Hi Ernie I also struggled with the gunport pattern. I found it very difficult to bend such a wide strip in two dimensions to get it to fit snuggly against all the frames. In the end I used a small travel iron (the one I use for Chuck's plank edge-bending technique). I describe in my Speedy log (here) how I used the iron to flatten the gunport pattern in situ. Once they're reasonably flat any remaining lumps and bumps will be lost in the planking. Derek ErnieL 1 Quote Cheers, Derek Current build: Duchess of Kingston On hold: HMS Winchelsea Previous builds: HMS Speedy, English Pinnace, Royal Yacht Caroline (gallery), Victory Cross-section (gallery), US Clipper Albatros, Red Dragon (years ago!) On the stocks: 18th Century Longboat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share #68 Posted May 14, 2020 I have the portside gunport pattern on and nicely fitted now. I resoaked and reapplied, after I did a bit more fairing on bulkhead #4. If seems I went a touch far on #5, (counting back from the stem), si I shimmed it out a tiny bit. It looks somewhat decent, and I’m a tough critic. 3 hours ago, DelF said: Hi Ernie I also struggled with the gunport pattern. I found it very difficult to bend such a wide strip in two dimensions to get it to fit snuggly against all the frames. In the end I used a small travel iron (the one I use for Chuck's plank edge-bending technique). I describe in my Speedy log (here) how I used the iron to flatten the gunport pattern in situ. Once they're reasonably flat any remaining lumps and bumps will be lost in the planking. Derek Derek, I saw you talking bout that in your build log, nd I’m certainly going to try your method on the starboard side. Any time savings and stress relief methods are good in my book. I don’t like pinning or clamping anything with the wood under tension, even if it does lay down perfectly. It’s king for alignment and out of plumb issues down the road, never mind the constant threat of glue failure. Again, I overthought stuff and ended up reinventing the wheel. Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 14, 2020 Share #69 Posted May 14, 2020 10 minutes ago, ErnieL said: I have the portside gunport pattern on and nicely fitted now. I resoaked and reapplied, after I did a bit more fairing on bulkhead #4. If seems I went a touch far on #5, (counting back from the stem), si I shimmed it out a tiny bit. It looks somewhat decent, and I’m a tough critic. Derek, I saw you talking bout that in your build log, nd I’m certainly going to try your method on the starboard side. Any time savings and stress relief methods are good in my book. I don’t like pinning or clamping anything with the wood under tension, even if it does lay down perfectly. It’s king for alignment and out of plumb issues down the road, never mind the constant threat of glue failure. Again, I overthought stuff and ended up reinventing the wheel. Photos, or it didn't happen. ErnieL 1 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share #70 Posted May 14, 2020 (edited) I took a few quick snaps while on my way out the door this morning. Notice my exquisitely clean work area with not a single stray project in sight. More to follow. Edited May 14, 2020 by ErnieL clearway, realworkingsailor, chris watton and 10 others 13 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 14, 2020 Share #71 Posted May 14, 2020 Once those are on, progress should be nice and steady. chris watton and ErnieL 2 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 14, 2020 Author Share #72 Posted May 14, 2020 2 hours ago, James H said: Once those are on, progress should be nice and steady. truth be said james, I'm truly enjoying this project now. It's a much welcome change of pace from the plastic bashing and as long as I don't make a cock of it all, I might succeed in convincing a few more fellows to attempt one as well. chris watton and VTHokiEE 2 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 14, 2020 Share #73 Posted May 14, 2020 I'll update my build log in the next day or so too, to spur you on. chris watton and ErnieL 2 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share #74 Posted May 17, 2020 A bit soon I thought, but FIrst Blood. Apparently this is a sickness in which we are required to pour everything we have into it. realworkingsailor, Jonny 007 and JeffT 3 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share #75 Posted May 17, 2020 We’re a bit crowded tonight with three ongoing builds JeffT, clearway, Jonny 007 and 7 others 10 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share #76 Posted May 17, 2020 Speedy, so far, has been a pleasure. Now comes first planking. Oh joy!!! Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Collingwood Posted May 17, 2020 Share #77 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) You rattle can man - that aint fair - I love Gallies and you have one. OC. Edited May 17, 2020 by Old Collingwood Quote Current builds 28mm Battle of Waterloo attack on La Haye Saint Diorama. 1/700 HMS Hood Flyhawk with PE, Resin and Wood Decking. Completed works. Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic. HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts. HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine plastic. Black Pearl 1/72 Revell with pirate crew. Revell 1/48 Mosquito B IV Eduard 1/48 Spitfire IX ICM 1/48 Seafire Mk.III Special Conversion 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier FRS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share #78 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Old Collingwood said: You rattle can man - that aint fair - I love Gallies and you have one. OC. Roden 1/144. It has an option for having all the high lift devices deployed. I decant most of what comes out of rattle cans. The rest I tend to wear. I cant get a good finish with a rattle can, so I go a Dixie Cup it goes along with a bit of Levelling Thinner and gets run through the airbrush. Much more precise that way. Edited May 17, 2020 by ErnieL Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Collingwood Posted May 17, 2020 Share #79 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, ErnieL said: Roden 1/144. It has an option for having all the high lift devices deployed. I fancy a 1/48 scale one but imagine the room needed 5-6 feet? Just worked it out 222 feet wing span at 1/48 is 4.6 feet. OC. Edited May 17, 2020 by Old Collingwood ErnieL 1 Quote Current builds 28mm Battle of Waterloo attack on La Haye Saint Diorama. 1/700 HMS Hood Flyhawk with PE, Resin and Wood Decking. Completed works. Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic. HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts. HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine plastic. Black Pearl 1/72 Revell with pirate crew. Revell 1/48 Mosquito B IV Eduard 1/48 Spitfire IX ICM 1/48 Seafire Mk.III Special Conversion 1/48 Kinetic Sea Harrier FRS1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 17, 2020 Author Share #80 Posted May 17, 2020 (edited) Yep, all of that. The 1/48 B-36 is 5 ft. B-52 somewhat smaller. The 6 engine An-225 in 1/72 is 5 1/2 ft Edited May 17, 2020 by ErnieL Old Collingwood 1 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 17, 2020 Share #81 Posted May 17, 2020 Can't wait to see those planks hit that hull 😁 ErnieL, VTHokiEE, Jonny 007 and 1 other 4 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Landlubber Mike Posted May 18, 2020 Share #82 Posted May 18, 2020 Just came across this - very nice start! Quote Mike Current Wooden builds: Amati/Victory Pegasus MS Charles W. Morgan Euromodel La Renommèe Plastic builds: SB2U-1 Vindicator 1/48 Five Star Yaeyama 1/700 Pit Road Asashio and Akashi 1/700 diorama Walrus 1/48 and Albatross 1/700 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/32 Eduard Sikorsky JRS-1 1/72 IJN Notoro 1/700 Akitsu Maru 1/700 Completed builds : Caldercraft Brig Badger Amati Hannah - Ship in Bottle Pit Road Hatsuzakura 1/700 Hasegawa Shimakaze 1:350 F4B-4 and P-6E 1/72 Accurate Miniatures F3F-1/F3F-2 1/48 Tamiya F4F-4 Wildcat built as FM-1 1/48 Special Hobby Buffalo 1/48 Citroen 2CV 1/24 - Airfix and Tamiya Entex Morgan 3-wheeler 1/16 Terminated build: HMS Lyme (based on Corel Unicorn) On the shelf: Euromodel Friedrich Wilhelm zu Pferde; Caldercraft Victory; too many plastic ship, plane and car kits Future potential scratch builds: HMS Lyme (from NMM plans); Le Gros Ventre (from Ancre monographs), Dutch ship from Ab Hoving book, HMS Sussex from McCardle book, Philadelphia gunboat (Smithsonian plans) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share #83 Posted May 19, 2020 Now I’m taking wood off of a few bulkheads, and adding little wedges in others. Oh the joy of it all. Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 19, 2020 Author Share #84 Posted May 19, 2020 Question. Can, should, or is it advisable to twist a plank to follow the curve under of the rear under the quarterdeck? Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 19, 2020 Share #85 Posted May 19, 2020 1 hour ago, ErnieL said: Question. Can, should, or is it advisable to twist a plank to follow the curve under of the rear under the quarterdeck? Yes, form those planks in Amy way you can. You will have to twist that lime as it runs under the stern area. Jonny 007 1 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted May 19, 2020 Share #86 Posted May 19, 2020 yep- take a peek at my hms terror and early pages of my victory log- looks a bit rough on terror but quality of planking material is not to the same standard as in your kit. Keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 27, 2020 Author Share #87 Posted May 27, 2020 Inventing (and cataloguing) a complete new addendum to the Oxford English Dictionary while learning the planking. Some French, Spanish, German, and Chickasaw is also supported. My wife, being a proud full blood Chickasaw Indian helps me with the latter. There are talks with the War Department on the feasibility of a limited thermonuclear strike on my bench... VTHokiEE, clearway and Edwardkenway 3 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clearway Posted May 27, 2020 Share #88 Posted May 27, 2020 i think before i got my dedicated modelling room the admiral was seriously considering full scale blitzkrieg🤪 Keith Edwardkenway and ErnieL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErnieL Posted May 29, 2020 Author Share #89 Posted May 29, 2020 Roight then..... Here we are, as of last Thursday, the first attempt at first planking. The first plank is glued and cured, the next two were wet and pinned. The middle plank on the prow will be made right of course I know all you wood ship guys out there sneeze at my slow crawl, but this is earth shattering for me. I’m literally learning a new skill as I go. chris watton, DelF, CiscoH and 10 others 13 Quote On the bench: Vanguard Models 1/64 HMS Speedy On Deck: Vanguard Models 1/64 Zulu, Vanguard Models 1/64 Fifie, Victory Models 1/72 HMS Bellerophon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James H Posted May 29, 2020 Share #90 Posted May 29, 2020 There's nothing wrong with that at all, in fact you've less stepping around the bow than I did. Looking forward to seeing this progress. Edwardkenway 1 Quote SAY NO TO PIRACY. SUPPORT ORIGINAL IDEAS AND MANUFACTURERS. KEEP IT REAL! On the bench: HMS Indefatigable - 1794 (production prototype), Vanguard Models - 1:64. On Hold: HMS Winchelsea Double Capstan - Syren Ship Models - 1:48 Finished US Baltimore Armed Privateer Schooner Grecian 1812 (prototype) - Vanguard Models - 1:64 'Zulu' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 Fifie' fishing boat, Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Flirt 1782, Vanguard Models - 1:64. Duchess of Kingston c.1780 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 HMS Sphinx 1775, Vanguard Models - 1:64 ERYCINA - Plymouth Ketch-Rigged Trawler 1882, Vanguard Models - 1:64. 'Nisha' - The Brixham 'Mumble-Bee' - Vanguard Models 1:64 'Saucy Jack' fishing boat - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Ranger 'Barking Fish Carrier' - 1864 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Indeterminate: Tender Avos - Master Korabel - 1:72. H.M.S. Victory (production prototype) - Amati - 1:64. HMS Granado 1742 (cross section) - CAFModel - 1:48 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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