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I'm not sure if that's residue from the tape but I would rub down the area with Alcohol and see what happens. You could even do the whole deck and just reapply the shellac. If it is tape adhesive residue the alcohol will probable remove it, if it isn't the rubdown should even out the finish and another coat could be applied. The beauty of shellac is it is very forgiving and problems quite easily corrected unlike some of the solvent based finishes. Don't panic or get discouraged, you will sort it out. 

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5 hours ago, danbloch said:

I have some follow-up questions if you don't mind...

 

After I applied the double coat of shellac and let it dry, the next step was to glue the deck onto the "ribs," (I don't know what to call it). I had two problems:

1) I had to weigh it down to allow the glue to dry, and since it is curved I needed something pressing into the center. I placed the boat center down onto a roll of tape and placed books on top. This resulted in leaving a circular mark in the shellac finish from the tape roll pressing in, as shown in the pictures below. How do I fix this?

2) Getting the deck to stick to the ribs was very difficult and I showed my "beginerism" by using way too much glue, as shown in the picture. However, I am thinking that since this is on the underside of the deck, it won't show and isn't a problem. Is this ok?

1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

1.   The problem of securing planks to deck beams can be addressed in a variety of ways. 

 

a)   You can drill a small hole in the plank where a trunnel would be set and use a push-pin through that hole to temporarily hold the plank against the deck beam until the glue dries. Then plug the hole with a tiny wooden peg of the same material as the plank. (Drilling a small hole first prevents splitting when the tack is placed.)

 

b)   You can use a small dot of fast-curing CA adhesive ("Super Glue") on each deck beam with wood glue on either side of it to "tack" the plank to the deck beam. The wood glue will then dry while the CA holds it and will provide the primary bond.

 

c)   You can glue the planks as you have done, but also drill small holes through the plank and into the beam and drive scale trunnels into the holes to hold the planks down. The trunnels have to be sized to fit tightly into the holes. When water-based wood glue is applied to the small trunnel pegs, they will swell slightly when the water is absorbed and hold the plank fast. This method is tricky and will take some experimenting to master.

 

d)   You can glue the planks as you have done with wood glue and use a plank bending iron or similar heat source to heat the top of the plank above each deck beam. The heat will cause the wood glue to harden and hold very quickly. Care must be taken not to scorch the top of the plank, of course.

 

I'm not sure what sort of tape it was that transferred to the deck planks, but it's adhesive is probably soluble in acetone or "Goof Off," a solvent sold in paint stores to remove paint splatters. "Goof Off" is great stuff for modeling purposes. It will remove most paints and varnishes and works well for cleaning air brushes, etc. It is much less aggressive than acetone and won't eat down into painted surfaces below the paint you want to clean off of them. Try a bit of "Goof Off" on a soft cloth and see if that removes the tape adhesive that has transferred to the deck surface. It that doesn't work, exercise the "thermonuclear option" and wipe it off with a soft cloth with acetone on it. Do this in a well ventilated place and be aware that acetone fumes are explosive, so keep it away from open flames. Lighter fluid can also be used instead of acetone. (Carbon tetrachloride ("cleaning fluid") also works great, but it's not readily obtainable anymore due to its toxicity.)  The dried shellac should be impervious to these solvents, but you should take a scrap piece of planking stock and shellac it, then test the solvent on that piece when the shellac dries to make sure the solvent isn't going to damage the shellacked surface. Also, if you put the pencil marking for the seams and fasteners on after the shellac, test this in a similar fashion to make sure the solvent won't spread the pencil lead all over the deck surface and make a huge mess.

 

If there weren't so much pencil lead on the surface, I'd say that the tape adhesive could easily be removed along with the shellac beneath it by simply applying alcohol to the shellacked surface and wiping it all off and reapplying the shellac, but I fear doing so would end up spreading a mixture of alcohol, shellac, and pencil lead all over the surface which would probably end up requiring the whole surface to be sanded clean to repair that mess.

 

Alternately, you can lightly sand, or better yet, lightly scrape with a sharp edged blade, the deck surface to remove the tape adhesive and see if that works. Additional thinned shellac can be applied over the scraped area. This will take some care. You can also sand or scrape the entire deck, removing the pencil-marked plank butts and fastener "dots" and refinish the deck entirely. This would permit you to reconsider your planking length and butt spacing, which can be determined by use of standard construction practices. (Use the search engine here to find discussions on plank length and plank butt spacing.) Plank fasteners would never be black, as you've depicted them, but rather would be wooden, being either trunnels (pegs) or metal fasteners (spikes or screws) in counterbored holes covered with wooden plugs. From a scale distance, these would be invisible. Their appearance can also be faked by using a piece of scale metal tubing (the diameter of the plug you want to mimic) with its edge sharpened. The tubing is tapped with a small hammer to create a light circular indentation which appears as a plug on the face of the plank. Some obsessive-compulsive modelers have gone so far as to employ this technique using hypodermic needles to obtain very tiny "plugs." :D 

 

2)   There's no problem whatsoever with excess glue in places where it doesn't show. In fact, the structure of a bulkheaded model can be considerably stiffened and strengthened by applying generous fillets of glue or epoxy at all hidden joint angles where the backbone and bulkheads meet anything else, particularly the sub-decking.

 

Hope this helps!

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1 hour ago, Bob Cleek said:

1.   The problem of securing planks to deck beams can be addressed in a variety of ways. 

 

a)   You can drill a small hole in the plank where a trunnel would be set and use a push-pin through that hole to temporarily hold the plank against the deck beam until the glue dries. Then plug the hole with a tiny wooden peg of the same material as the plank. (Drilling a small hole first prevents splitting when the tack is placed.)

 

b)   You can use a small dot of fast-curing CA adhesive ("Super Glue") on each deck beam with wood glue on either side of it to "tack" the plank to the deck beam. The wood glue will then dry while the CA holds it and will provide the primary bond.

 

c)   You can glue the planks as you have done, but also drill small holes through the plank and into the beam and drive scale trunnels into the holes to hold the planks down. The trunnels have to be sized to fit tightly into the holes. When water-based wood glue is applied to the small trunnel pegs, they will swell slightly when the water is absorbed and hold the plank fast. This method is tricky and will take some experimenting to master.

 

d)   You can glue the planks as you have done with wood glue and use a plank bending iron or similar heat source to heat the top of the plank above each deck beam. The heat will cause the wood glue to harden and hold very quickly. Care must be taken not to scorch the top of the plank, of course.

 

I'm not sure what sort of tape it was that transferred to the deck planks, but it's adhesive is probably soluble in acetone or "Goof Off," a solvent sold in paint stores to remove paint splatters. "Goof Off" is great stuff for modeling purposes. It will remove most paints and varnishes and works well for cleaning air brushes, etc. It is much less aggressive than acetone and won't eat down into painted surfaces below the paint you want to clean off of them. Try a bit of "Goof Off" on a soft cloth and see if that removes the tape adhesive that has transferred to the deck surface. It that doesn't work, exercise the "thermonuclear option" and wipe it off with a soft cloth with acetone on it. Do this in a well ventilated place and be aware that acetone fumes are explosive, so keep it away from open flames. Lighter fluid can also be used instead of acetone. (Carbon tetrachloride ("cleaning fluid") also works great, but it's not readily obtainable anymore due to its toxicity.)  The dried shellac should be impervious to these solvents, but you should take a scrap piece of planking stock and shellac it, then test the solvent on that piece when the shellac dries to make sure the solvent isn't going to damage the shellacked surface. Also, if you put the pencil marking for the seams and fasteners on after the shellac, test this in a similar fashion to make sure the solvent won't spread the pencil lead all over the deck surface and make a huge mess.

 

If there weren't so much pencil lead on the surface, I'd say that the tape adhesive could easily be removed along with the shellac beneath it by simply applying alcohol to the shellacked surface and wiping it all off and reapplying the shellac, but I fear doing so would end up spreading a mixture of alcohol, shellac, and pencil lead all over the surface which would probably end up requiring the whole surface to be sanded clean to repair that mess.

 

Alternately, you can lightly sand, or better yet, lightly scrape with a sharp edged blade, the deck surface to remove the tape adhesive and see if that works. Additional thinned shellac can be applied over the scraped area. This will take some care. You can also sand or scrape the entire deck, removing the pencil-marked plank butts and fastener "dots" and refinish the deck entirely. This would permit you to reconsider your planking length and butt spacing, which can be determined by use of standard construction practices. (Use the search engine here to find discussions on plank length and plank butt spacing.) Plank fasteners would never be black, as you've depicted them, but rather would be wooden, being either trunnels (pegs) or metal fasteners (spikes or screws) in counterbored holes covered with wooden plugs. From a scale distance, these would be invisible. Their appearance can also be faked by using a piece of scale metal tubing (the diameter of the plug you want to mimic) with its edge sharpened. The tubing is tapped with a small hammer to create a light circular indentation which appears as a plug on the face of the plank. Some obsessive-compulsive modelers have gone so far as to employ this technique using hypodermic needles to obtain very tiny "plugs." :D 

 

2)   There's no problem whatsoever with excess glue in places where it doesn't show. In fact, the structure of a bulkheaded model can be considerably stiffened and strengthened by applying generous fillets of glue or epoxy at all hidden joint angles where the backbone and bulkheads meet anything else, particularly the sub-decking.

 

Hope this helps!

The included instructions had me pencil in the lines and dots before the shellac went on. I don't really want to completely refinish the deck, (unless you think its a good idea), so I will try and scrape/sand it off first, or ill try the Goof Off. Can you explain what you mean by "reconsider your planking length and butt spacing?" Again, I am just following instructions. Did I do something poorly?

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"The included instructions had me pencil in the lines and dots before the shellac went on. I don't really want to completely refinish the deck, (unless you think its a good idea), so I will try and scrape/sand it off first, or ill try the Goof Off. Can you explain what you mean by "reconsider your planking length and butt spacing?" Again, I am just following instructions. Did I do something poorly?"

 

It's good that you shellacked over the pencil marks. That will prevent the pencil lead from smearing if you try to remove the tape adhesive with solvent. I'd try the solvent, Goof Off or acetone, first. The adhesive will probably wipe off easily. If not, then try scraping. Scraping is the more radical option. If you need to, you can always scrape and sand the surface down to bare wood and refinish the whole thing. You wouldn't be the first of us who's done that. (Don't ask me how I know this! :D )

 

Well, it's not that big of a deal, but black dots don't represent the appearance of a laid wooden deck. Metal fastenings through the planks into the deck beams are always covered with a wooden plug of the same species of wood used for the planking, or fastened with trunnels (pegs) and, from a distance, are virtually invisible. I don't know why the instructions would have one represent deck planking fastenings with a black pencil dot.  Metal fastenings are always set deeply into the deck planks and plugged with wood so that fastenings, which were often iron on older ships would not rust and would not stand proud when the deck wore down some. If trunnels (wooden pegs) were used to fasten the deck planks, they were wood-colored and not black. (Trunnels were often made of a slightly darker wood of a different species, frequently of locust.) The wood plugs or trunnels also permitted the decks to be "holystoned," that being "sanded" clean with flat stones having a hole in the center which permitted a long handle to be inserted so they could be swung back and forth like a mop. This kept decks, which were often covered with tar dripping from the rigging aloft, particularly in the heat of the tropics, clean, but at the cost of considerable abrasion of the wood over time. Holystoning wouldn't be possible if nail heads were standing proud of the surface of the deck.

 

As for the planking, I'm not certain of the scale of your model, and it is a somewhat esoteric detail which may not matter to you at this point in your modeling, but there are scale considerations with plank length. How long would the average deck plank be on your vessel? The longer the better. Planking stock was rarely longer than twenty-four to thirty feet long because that was the limit of what could be gotten out of the tree. A deck would not be planked with six foot planks. The distance between the planking butts (ends) should be somewhere in the range of 18' to 24'. On the model, that should be reflected in the applicable scale size. The length is significant because it affects the butt spacing in the same way bricks are laid so the vertical joints are staggered. If the plank butts all were placed on the same deck beam, that would be a very weak deck at that point. If the planks are staggered "like bricks in a wall" so that the butts are all as far apart as possible on each deck beam, that will yield the strongest deck structure possible. There are methods of laying out the deck planking to "stagger the butts." The below thread explains the methods of laying out deck planking in great detail. This is a small detail and failing to do it correctly doesn't "ruin" a model at all, but it is good to remember that a model is a collection of small details which  make up a whole. The more small details that are done right, the better the model. 

 

 

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9 hours ago, Bob Cleek said:

"The included instructions had me pencil in the lines and dots before the shellac went on. I don't really want to completely refinish the deck, (unless you think its a good idea), so I will try and scrape/sand it off first, or ill try the Goof Off. Can you explain what you mean by "reconsider your planking length and butt spacing?" Again, I am just following instructions. Did I do something poorly?"

 

It's good that you shellacked over the pencil marks. That will prevent the pencil lead from smearing if you try to remove the tape adhesive with solvent. I'd try the solvent, Goof Off or acetone, first. The adhesive will probably wipe off easily. If not, then try scraping. Scraping is the more radical option. If you need to, you can always scrape and sand the surface down to bare wood and refinish the whole thing. You wouldn't be the first of us who's done that. (Don't ask me how I know this! :D )

 

Well, it's not that big of a deal, but black dots don't represent the appearance of a laid wooden deck. Metal fastenings through the planks into the deck beams are always covered with a wooden plug of the same species of wood used for the planking, or fastened with trunnels (pegs) and, from a distance, are virtually invisible. I don't know why the instructions would have one represent deck planking fastenings with a black pencil dot.  Metal fastenings are always set deeply into the deck planks and plugged with wood so that fastenings, which were often iron on older ships would not rust and would not stand proud when the deck wore down some. If trunnels (wooden pegs) were used to fasten the deck planks, they were wood-colored and not black. (Trunnels were often made of a slightly darker wood of a different species, frequently of locust.) The wood plugs or trunnels also permitted the decks to be "holystoned," that being "sanded" clean with flat stones having a hole in the center which permitted a long handle to be inserted so they could be swung back and forth like a mop. This kept decks, which were often covered with tar dripping from the rigging aloft, particularly in the heat of the tropics, clean, but at the cost of considerable abrasion of the wood over time. Holystoning wouldn't be possible if nail heads were standing proud of the surface of the deck.

 

As for the planking, I'm not certain of the scale of your model, and it is a somewhat esoteric detail which may not matter to you at this point in your modeling, but there are scale considerations with plank length. How long would the average deck plank be on your vessel? The longer the better. Planking stock was rarely longer than twenty-four to thirty feet long because that was the limit of what could be gotten out of the tree. A deck would not be planked with six foot planks. The distance between the planking butts (ends) should be somewhere in the range of 18' to 24'. On the model, that should be reflected in the applicable scale size. The length is significant because it affects the butt spacing in the same way bricks are laid so the vertical joints are staggered. If the plank butts all were placed on the same deck beam, that would be a very weak deck at that point. If the planks are staggered "like bricks in a wall" so that the butts are all as far apart as possible on each deck beam, that will yield the strongest deck structure possible. There are methods of laying out the deck planking to "stagger the butts." The below thread explains the methods of laying out deck planking in great detail. This is a small detail and failing to do it correctly doesn't "ruin" a model at all, but it is good to remember that a model is a collection of small details which  make up a whole. The more small details that are done right, the better the model. 

 

 

Its disappointing that the kit would have me recreate the plank's incorrectly, but I think I will chalk it up to a learning experience and vow to do better next time.  

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8 hours ago, danbloch said:

Its disappointing that the kit would have me recreate the plank's incorrectly, but I think I will chalk it up to a learning experience and vow to do better next time.  

 It is indeed disappointing, but such errors are one of the drawbacks of kits generally. It's very difficult for anyone starting out to discern which kits are the really good ones. Fortunately, MSW contains a lot of information on kit quality that is invaluable in that regard. Kits provide valuable experience to one degree or another and, at some point, one realizes they've built enough kits that they can "ride a two-wheeler without training wheels" and start seriously kit-bashing and scratch-building.

 

In the grand scheme of things, it's a very small detail. Frankly, nobody other than an eagle-eyed modeling wonk is ever going to notice it and I'm sure to uninitiated eyes it will appear just as it ought to be. In fact, from an artistic perspective, the exaggeration of something that's supposed to be there but otherwise can't be seen at scale may well satisfy the eye of the beholder. Don't let it discourage you!  Our first models are never out best. Modeling is a process and it would quickly get boring if each successive model we build doesn't pose new challenges and new opportunities to "beat our personal best." Perfection is probably impossible, but the exercise of pursuing it offers continuing satisfaction from a hobby that can keep one interested for a lifetime. Do the best you can with her, as you obviously are. The care you are taking with this one shows you've got what it takes. Models are like a lot of things. You'll always cherish the memory of your first one, but you'll get a lot better at it the more you do it.

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

I'm literally in the same boat as you, Dan. :) Thanks for asking this question (and the glue one too). Decisions, decisions, decisions! Your shellac (and the decking) looks really good. I'm going to try the various "varishes" recommended here on some scrap wood to get a feel for them myself. 

 

Also it's a real eye opener to see the range of responses from experienced builders. Overwhelming for sure but great to receive all this input! 

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