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Tiger 1 by marktiedens - FINISHED - Dragon - 1/35 scale


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15 minutes ago, Egilman said:

Anyway, it is possible paint configuration for a tank that was unavailable for repainting due to operations in early 43...

ok - sounds like a good reason to leave it grey:D.    Thanks for your opinion - much appreciated.

 

Mark

current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways

 

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Mark,

 

After 35 years of studying German WW2 vehicles.


The yellow sand color only officially entered service in the spring of 1943 (HM 1943 N ° 181 of February 18, 1943) 

After reviewing post 1 in this log. The first manufacturer error appears "Leningrad 1943"

 

This model is one of the 4 first Tiger 1 that ever entered service in panzergrey . This was on the Leningrad front August 29, 1942.
On their first action they get all 4 engine problems, 3 can be salvaged 1 not.
The 3 remaining Tigers , remain in service until winter 42/43. Then they get a white wash camauflage.


I don't know if they are still in the vicinity of Leningrad in the summer of 43. They will probably will be further south to be involved in the much more important Citadel offensive.

 

So
You build one of the few Tigers who left the factory in panzer gray.
Please don't make it sand yellow.

20200622_081901.thumb.jpg.9ab27e6db4236c28bca758a7b92f5c69.jpg20200622_081948.thumb.jpg.ade3965aa016c4d3beefb7201f8b6f70.jpg

20200622_082753.thumb.jpg.ae4ecbe701dd2d243c46be09f0675be6.jpg

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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So then there were actually 4 of them that made it to the front before they were repainted, no longer speculative....

 

Nice to get that cleared up....

 

If you don't mind me asking, what book are you picturing there,,, I would like to obtain a copy.... MotorBuch-Verlag? or something of that nature?

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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1 hour ago, Egilman said:

So then there were actually 4 of them that made it to the front before they were repainted, no longer speculative....

 

Nice to get that cleared up....

 

If you don't mind me asking, what book are you picturing there,,, I would like to obtain a copy.... MotorBuch-Verlag? or something of that nature?

I'm glad that my 35 years of study finally come in handy ;)

20200622_103245.thumb.jpg.a8a2589430d7a95be06a027458c5766b.jpg

My generation grew up at a time when we had to learn Dutch and French at school. Then we did our military service in Germany. And when we go on holiday we usually have to be able to speak English.
Always handy for reading books 👍

 

My German corner WW2
Only the German designs. So no Czech, French, English, Russian, etc ... models that have been converted by Germany.  That is another part of the collection

 

20200622_101218.thumb.jpg.69de8a7acd1125330c5f4fb10abaa33b.jpg

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Btw,

Error N°2 ?? I gotta figure this out. Very unusual for a German Tank.

316016072_tiger1.JPG.194c81507e7b858fa0981af6d20e0732.jpg.a616115fb0c8a5aa338768dabc8c842a.jpg

 

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Hi Patrick,

 

Got the makings of a pretty good armored battalion there my friend... Ready for parade...

 

My german armor interests died down a couple of decades ago...  but before that I had every Accurate Armor Panzer Truppen kit in my stash..... Never got to build a single one of them though...

 

For a while I dropped off the modeling scene and there's a huge gap in my studies.. lost time... but it gives me more to learn now, I only remembered that bit about the DunkleGrau and Tiger tanks from a very memorable argument a gent an I had over just such... you like grey PZ IV'S there are a ton of examples same with Pz III's, but Panthers and Tigers... that's another story... I knew they had painted them but until today never thought one actually went into combat... Personally I thought the troops serving them would have been smarter..... Citadel took everything as far as armor.. that is one thing about the german forces they were moving tanks around so much that many broke down before they could ever get to a battle... I read about one example of a Tiger that was mustered up battle four times but never fired a shot in anger... it would break before they got to the assembly point.....  It's why the Russians put a premium on destroying railways..... 

 

Now I'm into American Armor.... which has as many devoted followers as German armor does...... But from building interests, I"m modeling anything that strikes me fancy at this point..... Got a few things I want to do and focusing on one small part won't get that done...

 

Nice collection......

 

Nice to actually converse with someone who likes the history as well as I... I'm not alone....

 

EG

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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20 minutes ago, Backer said:

Btw,

Error N°2 ?? I gotta figure this out. Very unusual for a German Tank.

316016072_tiger1.JPG.194c81507e7b858fa0981af6d20e0732.jpg.a616115fb0c8a5aa338768dabc8c842a.jpg

 

 

Yeah I saw that when Mark posted the pics and said "What the heck???" but not being sure I didn't mention it, but it is what brought out the idea for me that the manufacturer might not have his accuracy quite up there where we would like it...

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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Thanks for all that info,guys.  Here are a couple of pictures from the instructions - the one numbered 121 seems to show a blue camo pattern.   I will be leaving it all grey.  Also,the one numbered 121 does not have the "containers" on the side of the turret - could they be for ammo storage?

 

125861330_tank100.JPG.f8fbb08a230777f6f2ce9fbdda6296cf.JPG

 

1890355746_tank121.JPG.ed6155618bdc624d025e9bc615a58594.JPG

 

Mark

 

 

current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways

 

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Never seen this system. If a photo shows up, it can be photoshopped

125861330_tank100.JPG.f8fbb08a230777f6f2ce9fbdda6296cf.JPG

 

This is possible.

1890355746_tank121.JPG.ed6155618bdc624d025e9bc615a58594.JPG
Then you build a Tiger from sPzAbt 503. Also available in panzer gray. If you don't want to, don't apply a white wash.
There is evidence of a N ° 123. And, If there is an N ° 123, then there is also a N ° 121. 

The container at the back of the turret  is a "rommelkiste". Only for personal items.

20200622_200000.thumb.jpg.917aed6883292e9738bbfee1d3d4d9eb.jpg

 

But,

You are building a very early model with 2 pistolports in the turret. The sPzAbt 503 Tigers have a hatch on the right, no pistol port.

 

My idea,

It is possible that the 4 Tigers on the Leningrad front did not have a container on the turret (and the 2 pistolports)
This is the simplest solution to build, no container.

And no one can say that you did something wrong (i hope ;)

 

Ps,

This is your model,   of course you build the model of your choice.

But I'm glad to study Tigers again. It has been years since I built one. myself.

 

 

 

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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I've seen a photo or two with that "container" on the side of the turret but I can't remember where.  It might have been on the early builds of it for water or fuel.  I doubt ammo would be stored there.  

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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1 hour ago, mtaylor said:

I've seen a photo or two with that "container" on the side of the turret but I can't remember where.  It might have been on the early builds of it for water or fuel.  I doubt ammo would be stored there.  

If it did actually exist on a combat vehicle, it's a major rarity for sure.... The rear storage bin was a fairly common field adaptation taken from worn out Pz III's, but the side "wing" bins were not.....

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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Thanks guys - I think I will leave all those containers off.  I think it looks better that way.   Now I will have to decide what number to put on it.   All the numbers on the decal sheet are separate,so I can pretty much make it any number I want.

 

Mark

current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways

 

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32 minutes ago, marktiedens said:

Thanks guys - I think I will leave all those containers off.  I think it looks better that way.   Now I will have to decide what number to put on it.   All the numbers on the decal sheet are separate,so I can pretty much make it any number I want.

 

Mark

It would be Panzer Grey either way with or without the turret "bustle" I've seen that pic that Backer has posted also... it was obviously mounted before the whitewash......

 

An issue tank before it saw combat, that's cool and how I like to do mine....

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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really good info gents :) 

I yam wot I yam!

finished builds:
Billings Nordkap 476 / Billings Cux 87 / Billings Mary Ann / Billings AmericA - reissue
Billings Regina - bashed into the Susan A / Andrea Gail 1:20 - semi scratch w/ Billing instructions
M&M Fun Ship - semi scratch build / Gundalow - scratch build / Jeanne D'Arc - Heller
Phylly C & Denny-Zen - the Lobsie twins - bashed & semi scratch dual build

Billing T78 Norden

 

in dry dock:
Billing's Gothenborg 1:100 / Billing's Boulogne Etaples 1:20
Billing's Half Moon 1:40 - some scratch required
Revell U.S.S. United States 1:96 - plastic/ wood modified / Academy Titanic 1:400
Trawler Syborn - semi scratch / Holiday Harbor dual build - semi scratch

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After adding a few decals,I am calling this done:D.   The markings may not be quite right,but overall I am happy with it.   Other than a few inaccuracies,I would consider this a very good kit - all the parts fit perfectly & there was not any flash whatsoever to deal with.   I still have a couple of Tamiya tanks in the closet (a panther type g & a king tiger),that I may tackle later,but for now it`s back to the ship.  Thanks for all the input!

 

144509044_tank1.JPG.d48328afab0d6ab7b178218abce18187.JPG

 

930806118_tank2.JPG.ffd942c072dcb69ea10110f2ba003295.JPG

 

782383726_tank3.JPG.d81dae660097070bb5623130b14318e7.JPG

 

Mark

current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways

 

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Very well done, Mark.  Looks great.

Mark
"The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me

Current Build:                                                                                             
Past Builds:
 La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD           Triton Cross-Section   

 NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit                                                                            HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64               

 

Non-Ship Model:                                                                                         On hold, maybe forever:           

CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed                                                   Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned)         

         

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                

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Looking good Mark,   congrats on finishing it.

 

OC.

Current builds  


28mm  Battle of Waterloo   attack on La Haye Saint   Diorama.

1/700  HMS Hood   Flyhawk   with  PE, Resin  and Wood Decking.

 

 

 

Completed works.

 

Dragon 1/700 HMS Edinburgh type 42 batch 3 Destroyer plastic.

HMS Warspite Academy 1/350 plastic kit and wem parts.

HMS Trafalgar Airfix 1/350 submarine  plastic.

Black Pearl  1/72  Revell   with  pirate crew.

Revell  1/48  Mosquito  B IV

Eduard  1/48  Spitfire IX

ICM    1/48   Seafire Mk.III   Special Conversion

1/48  Kinetic  Sea Harrier  FRS1

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2 hours ago, marktiedens said:

Thanks guys - still don`t know what the little elephant on the front is supposed to represent:huh:.

 

Mark

 

1 hour ago, Canute said:

Time in Das Afrika Korps?

Nope, it's a unit marker....

 

5fd9f48435a4415eb0483fc8790ba7fc.thumb.png.c024b48a1b3ade420b8d5655ddcb932c.png

502nd Panzer Battalion....

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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Thanks guys:D.   

2 hours ago, Egilman said:

 

Nope, it's a unit marker....

 

5fd9f48435a4415eb0483fc8790ba7fc.thumb.png.c024b48a1b3ade420b8d5655ddcb932c.png

502nd Panzer Battalion....

 

Well,looks like they got that right:)!    Could the number on the turret be right also?   I must add,though,I did leave some of the details off just to get it done so I could get back to my neglected ship - many of the hatches were detailed on the undersides.  I didn`t want to leave them in the open position or they would surely have gotten snapped off.    By the way,I also have 4 SAAB aircraft models sitting in the closetB)

 

 

Mark

current build - HMS Vanguard - Model Shipways

 

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Congrats, nice Tiger.

 

Your tank probably belongs to the leader of the first company, (but the numbering is unusual)

 

German tank numbering

http://bunker3030.blogspot.com/2011/06/beginners-guide-to-german-3-digit.html

 

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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6 hours ago, Egilman said:

 

Nope, it's a unit marker....

 

5fd9f48435a4415eb0483fc8790ba7fc.thumb.png.c024b48a1b3ade420b8d5655ddcb932c.png

502nd Panzer Battalion....

Completely correct.
A mammoth.

Regards, Patrick

 

Finished :  Soleil Royal Heller 1/100   Wasa Billing Boats   Bounty Revell 1/110 plastic (semi scratch)   Pelican / Golden Hind  1/45 scratch

Current build :  Mary Rose 1/50 scratch

Gallery Revell Bounty  Pelican/Golden hind 1/45 scratch

To do Prins Willem Corel, Le Tonnant Corel, Yacht d'Oro Corel, Thermopylae Sergal 

 

Shore leave,  non ship models build logs :  

ADGZ M35 funkwagen 1/72    Einhets Pkw. Kfz.2 and 4 1/72   Autoblinda AB40 1/72   122mm A-19 & 152mm ML-20 & 12.8cm Pak.44 {K8 1/2} 1/72   10.5cm Howitzer 16 on Mark. VI(e)  Centurion Mk.1 conversion   M29 Weasel 1/72     SAM6 1/72    T26 Finland  T26 TN 1/72  Autoprotetto S37 1/72     Opel Blitz buses 1/72  Boxer and MAN trucks 1/72   Hetzer38(t) Starr 1/72    

 

Si vis pacem, para bellum

 
 
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Congratulations Mark

Very nice nice work in almost record time.

Lou

 

Build logs: Colonial sloop Providence 1/48th scale kit bashed from AL Independence

Currant builds:

Constructo Brigantine Sentinel (Union) (On hold)

Minicraft 1/350 Titanic (For the Admiral)

1/350 Heavy Cruiser USS Houston (Resin)

Currant research/scratchbuild:

Schooner USS Lanikai/Hermes

Non ship build log:

1/35th UH-1H Huey

 

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Very nice Tiger Mark, I really like the minimalist look it's got going on😄

 

Current builds;

 Henry Ramey Upcher 1:25

Providence whaleboat- 1:25     HMS Winchelsea 1764 1:48 

Completed:

HM Cutter Sherbourne- 1:64- finished    Triton cross section scratch- 1:60 - finished 

Non ship:  SBD-3 Dauntless 1:48 Hasegawa -FINISHED

 

 

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24 minutes ago, marktiedens said:

Many thanks to all:D.   Yes,minimalist it is - was never much good at weathering or making things look "used". 

 

 

Mark  

Hey brother, it looks great, call me the eternal optimist, but I've always like the look of going into battle, not the look of afterwards......

 

You captured that beautifully.....

 

Nice job....

Current Build: F-86F-30 Sabre by Egilman - Kinetic - 1/32nd scale

In the Garage: East Bound & Down, Building a Smokey & the Bandit Kenworth Rig in 1/25th scale

Completed: M8A1 HST  1930 Packard Boattail Speedster  M1A1 75mm Pack Howitzer  F-4J Phantom II Bell H-13's P-51B/C

Temporary Suspension: USS Gwin DD-433  F-104C Starfighter "Blue Jay Four" 1/32nd Scale

Terminated Build: F-104C Starfighter

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Quote:

"Relish Today, Ketchup Tomorrow"

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