Quality of Corel kits?

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I have no plans of Lowestoft but the photos on NMM give plenty of detail. That photo of Pegasus gives a feel for how the deck area should be - in my view.

 

For the deck layout I got clues from the NMM held plans of Lyme at http://collections.rmg.co.uk/collections/objects/385550.html gives a side view. Use the "slider" to the right of the illustrated plan to zoom to maximum. If you look closely the layout of the decks, companionways etc are shown as red lines. If you then look below this plan in the "related media" box you will see a second plan. Click on this and it will give you the layout of the Upper (main gun) deck. There are differences with Unicorn which can be considered later.  

 

I filled in detail by referencing Chuck's plans for Winchelsea at http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/99-hms-winchelsea-by-chuck-1764-english-32-gun-frigate-pob-164/page-1

 

I will be attacking the waist of my Unicorn in a few weeks time. It may end up as a model of the Unicorn as it was at the wreckers yard.

 

 

[petervisser]

Hiya Mike,

 

Yes, the lack of boats for the kit are a bit out of the norm and I considered adding some to my own model. I reconsidered because of the fact that they would hide the details of the gun deck. I spent a goodly amount of time rigging those guns down there and it would have been tragic to then cover them up with boats on the booms!

 

As for the "documentation" that accompanies the kit regarding the build dates and designer, it is best to ignore it. Corel did not have access to the interwebby when they first produced the kit and put something together on the fly by the looks of it.

 

As for my own build, I used John McKay's and Ron Coleman's Anatomy of the Ship Book "Pandora" to help me with the layout and design features concerning the deck fittings. Like you I was less interested in a totally accurate build of the Unicorn and more interested in creating a reasonably accurate frigate of the time. Pandora was similar in size and age.

 

Hope this is a help.

 

Peter

[Landlubber Mike]

Thank you very much for those references.  I downloaded them and will refer to them when I get going on my build.  Of course, I spent the last hour reading through Chuck's build log for the Winchelsea - all I can say is wow!  Don't know whether to be inspired or disheartened at not being able to build at that high level.

 

Good luck with your plan - you have a lot of guts to go forward with that.  I'll be watching and here for support

[Landlubber Mike]

Peter thanks for dropping in.  I'll check out the Pandora book - it sounds like a good resource.  I agree about covering up all those details with a small boat, but maybe if I go with Ian's idea of widening the area it won't be so bad.  I have plenty of time before I'm even close so I can think about it some more.

[wthilgen]

My wife loves them, they don't break when ya drop-em.

[Landlubber Mike]

My wife loves them, they don't break when ya drop-em.

Corel kits?

[Landlubber Mike]

Ian, I came across this Unicorn last night.  It didn't appear at first glance that any modifications were made, particularly at the waist area, but it's still a nicely done Unicorn.

 

http://www.shipsofscale.com/gallery/jshorter/hmsunicorn/index.html

Edited June 20, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

I have not seen this one before. The workmanship is very good. In deed it looks to have no modifications. There are extra details like crew and barrels.

 

The transom detail is the later variant as per your instance of the kit. The flags are the post 1801 version as supplied with the kit ie the union flag has red diagonals which is the version post unification of Ireland. The flags that were supplied with my ancient kit were poor. Apart from being wrong period, the red diagonal lines were on the centre line of the white diagonals rather than being correctly offset. Something else to be replaced in the kit.

Edited June 11, 2013 by ianmajor

[Landlubber Mike]

I agree, it's a nice looking build.  I'll have to check out what flags are in my kit.  Here is another that looks very much like the Corel kit:

 

 

http://www.modelships.de/Verkaufte_Schiffe/Unicorn,_Fregatte_1/Unicorn_frigate_I_eng.htm

 

http://www.modelships.de/Verkaufte_Schiffe/Unicorn,_Fregatte_1/Photos_Frigate_Unicorn.htm

 

 

 

 

 

 

Per Peter's suggestion about the Pandora as a close relative, I have been looking at Pandora builds as well.  This is a nice one, and probably closer to the color scheme that I will be looking to represent on my Unicorn (hopefully without using paint).  Also note that the waist is opened up, with three small boats.

 

http://www.stephens-kenau.com/hms_pandora-product-view-49.html

Edited June 20, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[trippwj]

My wife loves them, they don't break when ya drop-em.

I think those are corelware for cooking, Bill. I haven't seen any kits for those!

[wthilgen]

My bad

[Landlubber Mike]

My bad

Sorry, by my response it must be obvious that I don't do much of the cooking in my household 

[ZyXuz]

Hey Mike,

Really thanks for starting up this topic and sharing the photos..

I was wondering on Corel's kits quality until I read your topic

 

The HMS Unicorn is also one of my wish list for my next build.. the cast metal quality looks good to me, especially the Unicorn figure head. 

oh ya, the link you share about the Unicorn's picture gallery is also very helpful! I love the wide deck of the Unicorn, and hope I can add more things on her

 

Congrats for winning the kit!

I'm so wish that I can get a kit right now!!

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks Zyxuz.  Nice models on your blog by the way

 

The quality of the kit components seems very good - almost unfortunate as I may end up replacing the kit wood with stuff from Hobbymill or the Lumberyard.  The fittings are very good, except, in my opinion, the stern gallery tops and bottoms.  I might end up scratching those components as well as the stern area generally.

 

Not sure if folks know about this, but I saw that Cornwall Model Boats sells individual Corel fittings.  For my Unicorn build, I'm thinking of buying an extra pair of port holes (to move from 4 to 5 pairs), as well as some decorative strip molding should I go for scratching the stern galleries and transom.  I might also get an extra figurehead, to see whether I want to paint it a "wood" color or a white painted look.

 

http://www.cornwallmodelboats.co.uk/acatalog/corel_fttings.html

[Landlubber Mike]

Just out of curiosity, has anyone bought the pre-sewn sails offered by Corel for their specific kits?  I was thinking about adding sails to my Unicorn build, and was wondering whether they were a worthy investment, or if I should try to make my own.  I know pre-sewn sails generally are out of scale, etc., but was wondering if Corel's were halfway decent.

 

Thanks!

[robboxxx]

I've seen them and they are from the same manufacturer as the other sails. Way to thick material.

[Landlubber Mike]

I've seen them and they are from the same manufacturer as the other sails. Way to thick material.

Great thank you!

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

Nice idea. The running rigging as per the Corel instructions does not include the parts to handle the sails. Peter rigged his Unicorn using info from Lennarth Petersson's book "Rigging Period Ship Models" which gives a better basis to fit sails. I was going to get the Lees book for rigging, but the price tag frightened me. 

 

If you do fit sails it will look very impressive.

[robboxxx]

I've just found a good review of another Corel kit. This gives you an idea what to expect: http://modelshipworld.com/index.php?/topic/659-review-corel-frigate-berlin-140/

[Landlubber Mike]

Thanks for the link Robboxx.  Looks like another nice Corel kit

[Landlubber Mike]

Mike,

 

Nice idea. The running rigging as per the Corel instructions does not include the parts to handle the sails. Peter rigged his Unicorn using info from Lennarth Petersson's book "Rigging Period Ship Models" which gives a better basis to fit sails. I was going to get the Lees book for rigging, but the price tag frightened me. 

 

If you do fit sails it will look very impressive.

Ian - not sure if you have a used book online vendor, but I've managed to track down a number of used books for reference for relatively low cost.  In the US, for example, we have Abebooks.com, which functions similarly to a consortium of used book dealers that post their books for sale in a common forum.

[Landlubber Mike]

So this thread has turned into a compilation of resources for the Corel Unicorn  Here is another Unicorn I found, which looks very much like the Corel kit.  The builder added sails too:

 

http://www.historic-marine.com/english/our_modeles3.php

 

 

 

[ianmajor]

So this thread has turned into a compilation of resources for the Corel Unicorn   

 

Oh dear.

 

Oh well here is more then. The model in the photo is very well executed and looks a real treat. I notice the date of 1762 on the plate!

 

I have compared its rigging with the Corel instructions and it appears that it is as per the instructions. There appear to be some very basic additional running rigging to fit the sails. I don't think the mizzen mast would have had the lower (square) sail. This model is certainly good for a guideline if you go down the "sail" route.

 

The thing that spoils it for me are the dreadful Corel flags.

[Landlubber Mike]

 

I have built the Unicorn and finished it only last year. As for the guns, Corel have not really provided the hardare to make an accurate model. As far as I know those frigates were designed to carry 24 x 9 pdr. guns, but then added 4 x 3 pdr. guns to the quarter deck. This is how I built it. I bought some after market guns which were smaller than the guns provided to indicate the smaller calibre. I just eye-balled it and did not do any real calculations.

 

To follow up on this, I recently received the Chapman book (which was on a super sale by Model Expo for something like $3 so I figured why not).  The book has a draught of the Unicorn, and describes it as an English frigate, with 24 nine-pounders on deck and 10 four-pounders on the quarterdeck and forecastle for a total of 34 guns.  Hmm...

 

Looking at the draught itself, it shows 5 portholes per side, versus the 4 as per the Corel instructions.  I actually found a reproduction of the draught online here (the lower of the two models presented) (hopefully ok to post).  One thing I find interesting is that in the pictures of the various kit builds, the portholes are all following the same line and are full portholes in the side of the ship.  In the Chapman draught, it's almost like the portholes are following a slightly different line, such that the fore most porthole is only the bottom half.

 

http://www.sjohistoriska.se/en/Collections/Archives/ChapmanNet/ChapmanNet/Drawings/?pressimagepage=5

 

High resolution:  http://www.sjohistoriska.se/ImageVaultFiles/id_3085/cf_1803/55.JPG

Edited July 8, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

Here's another interesting resource - a fellow Corel Unicorn builder who not only created a build log/progression, but also researched the history of the ship.

 

http://deeandpete.co.uk/MENU%20UNICORN.htm

[mtaylor]

Guys,

 

Hate to raise this issue but I count 4 Unicorns here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Unicorn   All from the 1700's.  Plus there several French ships that the English captured (French: Licorne) to further add to the confusion.  The captured French Licornes were also called in some places "Unicorn".  The trick here is to figure out which "Unicorn" Corel has and which the rest have. I know there's some issues because I went through a bit of turmoil with this for my Licorne since it was captured by the Brits and the lines taken off.  In these cases, it was which "Licorne" became which "Unicorn/Licorne"? and which ones were French? 

 

[ianmajor]

Mark,

 

Welcome to our Mare's nest!

 

Before I discovered MSW my ship modeling life was blissfully simple. I had but one problem on my Corel kit. A plastic molding for the rigging did not match the diagrams, which in turn did not match the instructions. So I looked to the Web to find an answer. Result - my ship ended up with an identity crisis! I blame MSW for getting me hooked on naval research.           

 

During the 18th century there were many Unicorns. We had a British Unicorn captured by the French - who renamed it Licorne. A new British Unicorn was built only for the old one to be recaptured. 

 

I came to the conclusion that the Corel Unicorn was the British 1748 one based on the leading dimensions and armament being the closest match. The current artwork on the Corel kit box gives a date of 1790. It appears that as the age of the kit increases so does date of the prototype. I calculate at this rate that by 2040 Corel will claim that this ship was lunched at the time of Trafalgar!

 

Mike,

 

I think the lines of the portholes on the kit are determined by the line of the quarter deck which in my humble opinion is too low. The quarter deck should step up from the waist area by about 4mm which would then line them up as per the Chapman plan. 

 

If you look at the Lyme plans you will see the port holes shown as complete circles breaking above the top of the solid bulwarks. If you look closely you will also see a line above that which I interpret as rail above the open portion of the bulwark.

 

The last link you supplied was very interesting - in particular the reference to Chapman being accused of spying, that the Unicorn (1748) plans are missing and it is alleged that he stole them.   

[Landlubber Mike]

Well I learned a bit of French today - didn't realize Licorne was french for Unicorn

 

I haven't done as much research as Ian on the Corel kit, but I think he is right that the kit is based on the British 1748 vessel.  For me, like Ian, I initially came into the hobby to just build nice kits, and not really get into all the research and accuracy stuff.  After doing a little research on the Badger for sail plans and the like, I'm actually excited to research the Unicorn and modify the kit.  I plan to order the AOTS Pandora book and will see if I can get any ideas from it.  Right now, besides scratching the stern galleries and transom area, I'm thinking about making some modification to the number/type of guns, as well the waist area like Ian is planning to do.  I'd also like to explore whether it's feasible to add a small boat or two.  I'm not looking for perfect historical accuracy (which would probably be guesswork anyway), but get to what I would think would be a somewhat reasonable design of such a vessel.

 

Ian, thanks for your thoughts on the portholes and line of the quarter deck.  Very interesting stuff.  I am including the Lyme plans from RMG below.

 

Ian, I have the Chapelle book which has plans for the Lyme class.  The plans are not very clear (or large), but it looked like the ladder placement to get to the waist area was fairly close to the center line of the ship.  I don't know if that is evidence that the waist was indeed narrow as per the Corel plans, but just wanted to throw that out there.  I didn't have much of a chance last night to study the plans, but will try to do so tonight and report back.

 

I went back and added pictures to the various posts of this thread since this has turned into a compilation of resources for the Unicorn.  Let's hope that MSW 2.0 doesn't crash 

Edited June 20, 2013 by Landlubber Mike

[Landlubber Mike]

So I took another look at the Lyme plans in the Chapelle book.  I'm not very good at reading plans, and it's hard for me to tell how wide the waist should be.  

 

Interestingly, if I'm reading it right, the main deck on the Lyme is really long, like almost up to half the ship in length.  The quarterdeck and forecastle deck are fairly short.  Looking at the plans, there is a line that says "break" near stair cases on either end, which is why I think the main deck on the Lyme is very long.

[ianmajor]

Mike,

 

If you look closely at the NMM Lyme plan (zoom in as much as possible) you will see the hidden detail such as decks, companionway ladders etc marked faintly in red. The quarter deck is shown in line with the upper part of the main mast dead eyes and lower down in relation to the mizzen dead eyes. The red lines for the quarter deck end behind the foremost main mast dead eye. The gallows are also shown in red just ahead of the main mast. The quarter deck does not reach this far. The line of the upper deck can be seen in red just below the main gun ports.

 

There are other pointers that make me believe the Corel deck layout is inaccurate/fanciful.

 

1) The pump being positioned well aft up on the quarter deck. Would the ships designers place a pump at the highest point on the decks well aft of the lowest part of the hull where the bulk of the bilge water would lie? The pump mechanism and pipe in this position would pass through the main cabin. It would also get in the way of commanding the ship.

2) The position of the stove flue to one side of the foredeck. I am sure the designers would not put a heavy item like that to one side of the keel line (other heavy items like cannon are in balancing pairs each side of the keel line). Besides having the stove to one side on a fairly small ship would interfere with the operation of the cannon in that area.   

 

As my wife would say - all good fun so long as no-one loses an eye.