VTHokiEE Posted June 6, 2020 Share #1 Posted June 6, 2020 I lost a cannonball in my kit and while looking for possible replacements I saw some 2mm black ceramic ball bearings on Amazon. Has anyone had any experience with these? I wonder how they would take a Matte coat as I’m certain they will be glossy. I saw on a different post that after heating chrome steel ball bearings they were able to be blackened so as an alternative, I’m considering getting an assortment of chrome steel 2mm to 8mm bearings so I’ll have extra in the future. Am I overlooking a better alternative for cannonballs? Thanks! Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 7, 2020 Share #2 Posted June 7, 2020 If you have any bird hunter friends, ask if they have any number 9 shotgun shells. The pellets from one shell will last you a couple models, at least. (500 to 600 pellets in one 12 gage shell) These are a nice dark grey that is close to the look of steel cannon balls that have not yet rusted. I mentioned number 9 as the diameter is 0.08" (2.032mm) but if your model has more than one size cannon, there are common sizes of shot from 2.032 mm to 4.57mm. Allan mtaylor and VTHokiEE 2 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 7, 2020 Share #3 Posted June 7, 2020 Lead shot is an attractive source for scale cannon balls but it's only a matter of time before the lead will oxidize. Hard shot will oxidize slower. Humidity and temperature are variables that will influence the oxidation rate. I don't know of any coating to prevent oxidation that will stick to lead. Bird-shot made of tungsten, bismuth or polymers is available in many sizes and will not oxidize. Heating steel/chrome ball bearings is a good way to blacken them. VTHokiEE, mtaylor, vaddoc and 2 others 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allanyed Posted June 7, 2020 Share #4 Posted June 7, 2020 Charles, your options sound like a great way to go. Regarding the lead shot I have a couple models that go back 20 and 35 years when lead shot was about all that was available for bird shot. I applied several coatings of finish to the model, which included the "cannon balls" and they still look the same today as they did back then. Don't know if that will last another 10 years or 100 years, but so far so good. Allan mtaylor 1 Quote PLEASE take 30 SECONDS and sign up for the epic Nelson/Trafalgar project if you would like to see it made into a TV series. Click on http://trafalgar.tv There is no cost other than the 30 seconds of your time. THANK YOU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Cleek Posted June 7, 2020 Share #5 Posted June 7, 2020 There's always the "old standby" of suitably sized round seeds. I suppose you have to know your seeds to know which to buy, though. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vaddoc Posted June 7, 2020 Share #6 Posted June 7, 2020 I d go for Bismuth. Looks like a lovely material to have on your model! According to wikipedia Bismuth is a chemical element with the symbol Bi and atomic number 83. It is a pentavalent post-transition metal and one of the pnictogens with chemical properties resembling its lighter group 15 siblings arsenic and antimony. mtaylor 1 Quote Current projects: 21' Fisherman's Launch - plans by Howard Chapelle Completed projects: 21' Yawl Longboat - plans from the National Maritime Museum Deben 5 tonner - a Whisstock yard design 24' exploration gaff rigged ketch - a Tad Roberts design 15' knockabout sailing boat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 8, 2020 Share #7 Posted June 8, 2020 allenyed: My experience with lead oxidation comes from my interest in firearms cartridge collecting. Bullets cast from pure lead can start to oxidize in a few years. It's hard to find any lead bullet made before the 1960's that isn't coated white. Lead is commonly alloyed with tin and antimony to harden it and enhance it's casting properties. These additions can put off the oxidation process for quite a while. Again, atmospheric conditions have a lot to do with lead's rate of oxidation. I'm betting the shot you used falls into the category of "hard shot". mtaylor and allanyed 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted June 8, 2020 Share #8 Posted June 8, 2020 At least here in Europe lead shot is being (or has been) phased out due to the environmental contamination it causes. I believe it is being replaced by tungsten (alloys). BTW, 'cannon balls' are not made from (cast) steel, but cast iron. Steel was only introduced when ogival projectiles were introduced together with rifled breech-loading guns. Only then they were machined, rather than being used as cast. The balls seem to have been usually painted in black oil-paint to prevent them from rusting, so that should not really look 'metallic'. Bob Cleek, mtaylor and tkay11 3 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dziadeczek Posted June 10, 2020 Share #9 Posted June 10, 2020 You can also buy steel shot. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgdawson Posted June 14, 2020 Share #10 Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/10/2020 at 1:34 PM, Dziadeczek said: You can also buy steel shot. Hi, I was looking at steel shot for a canon section kit in my stash but looking online the only steel shot I found had a prominent belt around the equator. Can someone tell me if this is normal or did I just find an oddball (no pun intended). Also anyone know where I can buy steel shot in Australia, I've only found preloaded shells with steel shot. I was going to ask around at the June shot show but of course that didn't happen. I wouldn't even consider getting some from overseas the cost of shipping a kilo or more would be horrendous. Mark mtaylor 1 Quote Mark D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgdawson Posted June 14, 2020 Share #11 Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/7/2020 at 11:55 PM, Charles Green said: Heating steel/chrome ball bearings is a good way to blacken them. Hi Charles, Just wondering about heating ball bearings, I've done a search on the site but only found mention of it, no details eg how hot, can you do it in an kitchen oven or do you need a torch ? Is it permanent or you need to add a protective coating ? If someone has a link to where this is described it would be appreciated. Also one of the posts I did find mentioned using a chemical blacking solution after heating , so I'm confused, does the heating create the black or the chemical solution and the heat just allows the chemical black to work. If using chemical blacking, which is appropriate, steel or copper based blacking, I'm assuming the chrome is still on the ball bearing so we're blacking chrome not steel or does the heat cook off the chrome? I vaguely remember that when chrome plating steel, it is first plated with copper which is then plated with chrome, so if we've cooked off the chrome are we down to copper or steel ? Mark mtaylor 1 Quote Mark D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wefalck Posted June 14, 2020 Share #12 Posted June 14, 2020 If you have an baking oven that can produce 800°C, you will be ok ... just joking. No, you would need a furnace or a blow-torch to heat the steel to a light red glow in order to obtain the oxidation layer. Most bearing balls are just polished, not chromed, but there are also hard-chromed varieties. The are made from steel alloys that give them high hardness, i.e. they contain chrome and/or nickel or other metals. Depending on the composition, there is a trade-off between corrosion reistance and hardness. Certain steel can be blackened by heating them with vegetable oils until the oil burns off. This has been largely replaced today by chemical blackening. Blackening (as blueing or browining) is a chemical reaction of the steel with different types of metal salts. In general, corrosion resistant steel are more difficult or impossible to blacken. Chrome-plated steel doesn't blacken. bruce d and mtaylor 2 Quote wefalck panta rhei - Everything is in flux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmary1 Posted June 14, 2020 Share #13 Posted June 14, 2020 You could also try matte black nail polish. It was very popular a few years ago - I would think it's still available. Have your wife or girlfriend pick it up for you, if you are not comfortable shopping for it yourself! I used to sell Avon products and I had a lot of car modelers who would buy Avon nail polish for accent colors on their model cars. VTHokiEE and mtaylor 2 Quote Mary Van Dahm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Green Posted June 14, 2020 Share #14 Posted June 14, 2020 mgdawson: The temperature wefalck mentioned can be easily achieved with a hardware-store variety propane torch. Chemical blackening is only necessary when the heat used for simple oxidative blackening would alter a part's hardness - not a problem for scale cannon balls! This all applies to steel alloys only. The bismuth and tungsten shot I mentioned will not react to heat or chemical blackening. mtaylor 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dziadeczek Posted June 14, 2020 Share #15 Posted June 14, 2020 On 6/6/2020 at 2:15 PM, VTHokiEE said: I lost a cannonball in my kit and while looking for possible replacements I saw some 2mm black ceramic ball bearings on Amazon. Has anyone had any experience with these? I wonder how they would take a Matte coat as I’m certain they will be glossy. I saw on a different post that after heating chrome steel ball bearings they were able to be blackened so as an alternative, I’m considering getting an assortment of chrome steel 2mm to 8mm bearings so I’ll have extra in the future. Am I overlooking a better alternative for cannonballs? Thanks! I have some steel shot balls left from my previous project (2,10; 2,54 and 3,05 mm) I could send them to you, if you wanted them. How many do you need? ( I purchased those three boxes of steel shot cartridges and opened them up and dissasembled, so it turned out to be a lifetime supply of shot for me :-) ) Thomas VTHokiEE and mtaylor 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VTHokiEE Posted June 14, 2020 Author Share #16 Posted June 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Dziadeczek said: I could send them to you, if you wanted them. How many do you need? That is a very generous offer! There is a lot great recommendations here. I’ll probably try out some of the specific recommendations as well. For this build I ended up buying a variety of steel ball bearings just to have a random supply on hand in case of me being me in the future and losing a different size. Thank you again for the offer though! 9 hours ago, NRG OFFICE MANAGER said: Have your wife or girlfriend pick it up for you, if you are not comfortable shopping for it yourself! HA! I used to be uncomfortable buying certain things and then I realized that the cashier really doesn’t care what I buy... and that I don’t really care either. It was quite a liberating day 😂 mtaylor 1 Quote Current Build: HM Sloop Echo 1781 (First Scratch Build) Previous Builds: HM Cutter Alert, Sharpie Schooner, Chesapeake Bay Flattie, Half-Hull (NRG) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtaylor Posted June 15, 2020 Share #17 Posted June 15, 2020 6 hours ago, VTHokiEE said: HA! I used to be uncomfortable buying certain things and then I realized that the cashier really doesn’t care what I buy... and that I don’t really care either. It was quite a liberating day 😂 It very much is a liberating day/moment. I've used the local beauty supply store for those sanding sticks they use for nails and for finger nail polish for bolts on and nuts on mechanical devices. ferretmary1 and VTHokiEE 2 Quote Mark "The shipwright is slow, but the wood is patient." - me Current Build: Past Builds: La Belle Poule 1765 - French Frigate from ANCRE plans - ON HOLD Triton Cross-Section NRG Hallf Hull Planking Kit HMS Sphinx 1775 - Vanguard Models - 1:64 Non-Ship Model: On hold, maybe forever: CH-53 Sikorsky - 1:48 - Revell - Completed Licorne - 1755 from Hahn Plans (Scratch) Version 2.0 (Abandoned) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgdawson Posted June 15, 2020 Share #18 Posted June 15, 2020 16 hours ago, NRG OFFICE MANAGER said: Have your wife or girlfriend pick it up for you, if you are not comfortable shopping for it yourself! Acrylic paint in small quantities with applicator included, what's not to like ? I use it for marking cable polarities, mouse & keyboard dongles so I know which belongs to which, thread witness marks etc etc I get some weird looks in the chemist, but I just smile and let them wonder 🙂 Actually the really fun bit was the new girlfriend when she saw the bottles. ferretmary1 and mtaylor 2 Quote Mark D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgdawson Posted June 15, 2020 Share #19 Posted June 15, 2020 Thanks wefalck, Mary, Charles I've actually got several blacking compounds for both ferrous and copper based alloys , just never thought to try ball bearings, I always assumed the alloy or chrome plate wouldn't take the black and nor did heat occur to me. Got a gas torch so I just need to get some ball bearing of appropriate size and start experimenting. Thanks again. Mark mtaylor 1 Quote Mark D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferretmary1 Posted June 15, 2020 Share #20 Posted June 15, 2020 Good luck on your project whichever route you take - and above all have fun! Perfection is a goal, but enjoyment is the journey! 😀 mtaylor 1 Quote Mary Van Dahm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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